Loading .223 military projectiles

Reloading equipment, methods, load data, powder and projectile information.

Re: Loading .223 military projectiles

Post by Gaznazdiak » 13 Jul 2017, 2:18 pm

Under the SS109s skirt
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SS109 Adcom PMC_resize.jpg
SS109 Adcom PMC_resize.jpg (32.63 KiB) Viewed 202 times
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Re: Loading .223 military projectiles

Post by NuZo » 14 Jul 2017, 8:57 am

Hey All,

I've actually posted this in the other thread but just saw this one as well. Thought it might be interesting in case anyone hasn't seen the other thread.

I actually have a video from when I cut down some SS109's. They're not the most accurate pill in the world as they were just bulk produced for the military. But, cool none the less.

https://youtu.be/PCfGKlArwZ8

Cheers,

Nuzo
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A penetrating afternoon with SS109 et al

Post by Gaznazdiak » 16 Jul 2017, 6:45 pm

For Duncan 61
Because he asked.

I used a Hornady 68gr BTHP match for comparison.
And some ballistic tips, just because
Attachments
ss109-exit.jpg
ss109-exit.jpg (534.98 KiB) Viewed 189 times
ss109-penetrator--scratch-.jpg
ss109-penetrator--scratch-.jpg (288.04 KiB) Viewed 189 times
SS109 penetrator.JPG
SS109 penetrator.JPG (236.88 KiB) Viewed 189 times
ss109-secondary-impact-100m.jpg
ss109-secondary-impact-100m.jpg (296.14 KiB) Viewed 189 times
ss109-secondary-impact--50m.jpg
ss109-secondary-impact--50m.jpg (356.31 KiB) Viewed 189 times
h68gr-side.jpg
h68gr-side.jpg (323.82 KiB) Viewed 189 times
h68gr-exit.jpg
h68gr-exit.jpg (308.16 KiB) Viewed 189 times
h68gr-secondary-impact.jpg
h68gr-secondary-impact.jpg (721.04 KiB) Viewed 189 times
Hornady 35gr.jpg
Hornady 35gr.jpg (1.25 MiB) Viewed 189 times
Nosler 50gr.jpg
Nosler 50gr.jpg (1.55 MiB) Viewed 189 times
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Re: Loading .223 military projectiles

Post by straightshooter » 17 Jul 2017, 9:16 am

20+ years ago I lucked onto a large quantity of these ADI 223 projectiles. As a consequence I had to fit a new 1 in 9 twist barrel to my mini Mk X mauser and since then they are all I use when a 223 calibre is adequate for the expected game and ranges likely to be 200 meters or less.
These projectiles were developed to be compatible with the NATO SS109 specification, the main requirement being that the projectile retain enough energy to penetrate a helmet at 600 meters. Something the 55 grain projectiles couldn't do.
As a consequence the soft iron tip filler was thought by self styled 'experts' to play a role in enhancing penetration.
That is not the case. One of it's purposes and benefits is to make the projectile unstable when it enters it's target medium thus increasing it's wounding effect while still complying with the Hague Convention. It serves much the same purpose as the aluminium tip filler in MkVII 303 projectiles.
So if you understand that you should realize that there is nothing to be gained by trying to 'soft point' these projectiles, the more likely outcome will be a loss of BC and accuracy.
The purpose of the cannelure is for crimping the case mouth and it is positioned such that the projectile can be seated to a standard COL. Obviously for custom ammunition it doesn't matter. I recall that ADI also made these projectiles without a cannelure for fullbore shooters but they didn't catch on, the criticism being that they were insufficiently accurate.
I developed loads using BM2, 2206 (without the H) and 2208 and settled on BM2 which gave the best results out of my 20 inch barrel.
The projectiles I have look like rejects or seconds of some kind but they still managed to group a little over 1" at 100 yards for a 10 shot group.
I have used them on goats and medium sized pigs with good results and extensively on smaller game.
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Re: Loading .223 military projectiles

Post by Gaznazdiak » 17 Jul 2017, 10:22 am

Still on the pentetrating question of terminal performance, has anybody tried making ballistics gel from ordinary gelatin?
Did it work?
Any special tricks?
Was it clear enough to be worth th effort?
After reading straightshooter's post I would like to test the destabilisation vs penetration assertion.
BTW, nothing remotely soft or mild about the steel half of these cores, I broke 2 HSS drill bits without doing more than putting a tiny shiny dot on the end.
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Re: Loading .223 military projectiles

Post by Gaznazdiak » 17 Jul 2017, 2:22 pm

straightshooter
I did notice that at 100m the new Nosler 70gr Reduced Drag Factor BTHP match bullet left a far more authoritative impression on a rail sleeper plate than the 62gr SS109, although you you can see evidence of it's steel cap.
Except for the divot from the cap of the SS109 the Nosler hit was about twice the overall depth.

A digression on the subject of the new RDF projectiles, at 400m in a 15kph quartering wind that moved the 68gr Hornady match nearly 200mm, the RDF were not visibly affected and grouped about 1/3 the size.
Attachments
Nosle RDF.JPG
Nosle RDF.JPG (715.96 KiB) Viewed 167 times
SS109.JPG
SS109.JPG (759.69 KiB) Viewed 167 times
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Re: Loading .223 military projectiles

Post by straightshooter » 18 Jul 2017, 7:58 am

Gaznazdiak wrote:Still on the pentetrating question of terminal performance, has anybody tried making ballistics gel from ordinary gelatin?
Did it work?
Any special tricks?
Was it clear enough to be worth th effort?
After reading straightshooter's post I would like to test the destabilisation vs penetration assertion.
BTW, nothing remotely soft or mild about the steel half of these cores, I broke 2 HSS drill bits without doing more than putting a tiny shiny dot on the end.


After reading your post last night I tried to do a longitudinal cut on one of these projectiles with a jeweller's saw. Cut through the jacket tip OK and made a slight start on the insert but the saw teeth very quickly became dull and stopped cutting.
Looks like I had a misapprehension about the actual material of the insert although I vaguely remember doing much the same thing 25 years ago and being able to cut through it.
Your steel plate tests are interesting and no doubt fun, as would be ballistic gel tests, but they don't tell you what you really want to know. That is how they perform on real living breathing moving ballistic gel.
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Re: Loading .223 military projectiles

Post by Gaznazdiak » 18 Jul 2017, 1:08 pm

Hi straightshooter
You are exactly right about real world results being the only ones that matter particularly if you are taking a life.
To paraphrase what bladeracer has said on this subject, shot placement is paramount. I only use these for headshooting rabbits at 1-200m. At longer ranges I prefer to use match BTHP, like the new Nosler RDF 70gr which not only have the accuracy for head shots at 450-500m but as the track plate impact shows strike with sufficient energy to ensure an instant, humane kill.
My desire to test the SS109 in gel is not an attempt to disparage your statement on the purpose behind the core construction, it sounds quite logical to me. I was reading about a Russian research project that has produced a new type of projectile, the internal construction of which allows it to bend on impact and tumble through the target. It doesn't expand in cross sectional diameter and as such is still legal under the 1907 convention.
I also want to compare results between BTHP rounds and ballistic tips as well.
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Re: Loading .223 military projectiles

Post by Gaznazdiak » 21 Jul 2017, 4:36 pm

For anyone still interested in the SS109

I thought of a different way to test/prove straightshooter's statement about the purpose of the steel half of the SS109 core being to destabilize and veer off path without messing with gel and video etc by using "bullet resistant" polycarbonate.
The fist pic is a Winchester .22 PowerPoint at 100m on one 9mm sheet.
Even in the process of disintegrating the Nosler 50gr ballistic tip projectile's path was straight. The last pic says all that remains to be said on the subject.
Straightshooter knows his sh*t.
Attachments
Win.22 PowerPoint100m.jpg
Win.22 PowerPoint100m.jpg (476.6 KiB) Viewed 107 times
img_1400.jpg
img_1400.jpg (485.74 KiB) Viewed 107 times
img_1401.jpg
img_1401.jpg (355.09 KiB) Viewed 107 times
Nosler 50gr 1st layer entry.jpg
Nosler 50gr 1st layer entry.jpg (280.79 KiB) Viewed 107 times
Nosler 50gr second layer exit.jpg
Nosler 50gr second layer exit.jpg (501.89 KiB) Viewed 107 times
Nosler 50gr 3rd layer entry.jpg
Nosler 50gr 3rd layer entry.jpg (596.3 KiB) Viewed 107 times
Nosler 50gr 3rd layer exit.jpg
Nosler 50gr 3rd layer exit.jpg (488.14 KiB) Viewed 107 times
Nosler 50gr remains.jpg
Nosler 50gr remains.jpg (630.83 KiB) Viewed 107 times
Nosler 50gr effect on target.jpg
Nosler 50gr effect on target.jpg (436.07 KiB) Viewed 107 times
SS109 entry 1st layer.jpg
SS109 entry 1st layer.jpg (265.3 KiB) Viewed 107 times
SS109 path side.jpg
SS109 path side.jpg (285.36 KiB) Viewed 107 times
PROOF!.jpg
PROOF!.jpg (310.11 KiB) Viewed 107 times
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