Need help with 444marlin load

[jpsauer88]

Hello all,
This is my first post sp please be patient.
I have tried to get a decent group with my 444 marlin 22" (remlin)
At first 46.5g AR2207 worked up was the best contender. Results below:
Ar2207 43-46.5g
Hornady 240g XTP
Starline brass
Win primers
43g - 1.477"
44g - 1.631"
44.5g - 2.056"
45g - 1.690"
45.5g - 1.739"
46g - 2.454"
46.5g - 1.121"
All 4 shot groups scoped, 50m off a good tripod and bag.

Clearly 46.5 a winner. Great. Load 50 of the same load. Hit the range again
Group 1: 3.232"
Geoup 2: 2.001"
Group 3: 1.655"
Group 4: 2.212"
Group 5: 0.986"
Group 6: 0.636"
Group 7: 1.630"

Can anyone help with why such inconsistent groups. Before anyone says its me, i am no pro shooter, but groups out of my 6.5, 223 and 308 are all under 0.8" at 100m...and the 444 is at 50m!

I do notice one thing in the groups with initial laddder testing, there is a cluster then one that is way off. So 3 shots inside 0.8" with one 1.1" away from the closest, creating a 1.9" group for everything over 44g.

Any help would be appreciated, not sure if its powder, or primer choice (tried fed 210m same results)

[bladeracer]

I would consider all of those groups to be decent from a lever-action at 50m. The three-inch group is stretching it but may be an anomaly. The lever is a very different piece of equipment from your bolt-actions. There are good reasons lever-actions are generally not used in precision shooting.

If you only fired four rounds for each group I wouldn't consider that enough data to make decisions around though.

It may help during load testing to single-load so the magazine spring and the weight of the ammo has no effect on the barrel.

Hello all,
This is my first post sp please be patient.
I have tried to get a decent group with my 444 marlin 22" (remlin)
At first 46.5g AR2207 worked up was the best contender. Results below:
Ar2207 43-46.5g
Hornady 240g XTP
Starline brass
Win primers
43g - 1.477"
44g - 1.631"
44.5g - 2.056"
45g - 1.690"
45.5g - 1.739"
46g - 2.454"
46.5g - 1.121"
All 4 shot groups scoped, 50m off a good tripod and bag.

Clearly 46.5 a winner. Great. Load 50 of the same load. Hit the range again
Group 1: 3.232"
Geoup 2: 2.001"
Group 3: 1.655"
Group 4: 2.212"
Group 5: 0.986"
Group 6: 0.636"
Group 7: 1.630"

Can anyone help with why such inconsistent groups. Before anyone says its me, i am no pro shooter, but groups out of my 6.5, 223 and 308 are all under 0.8" at 100m...and the 444 is at 50m!

I do notice one thing in the groups with initial laddder testing, there is a cluster then one that is way off. So 3 shots inside 0.8" with one 1.1" away from the closest, creating a 1.9" group for everything over 44g.

Any help would be appreciated, not sure if its powder, or primer choice (tried fed 210m same results)

[Wm.Traynor]

You might want to have a read of the blog at hoffos.wordpress.com
Scroll down until you come to "RTV Bedding The Factory Lever".
I bedded my lever that wat and the vertical stringing shrunk from 6" at 50 yards with a very poor peep sight, to an inch and a half.
Good luck mate and let us know how you get on.

[jpsauer88]

Thank you, i posted this in another forum and people suggested heated barrel.
I will visit range again and wait between shots.

I tested 10 x 5 shot groups with variations from 1" to 2.5" all have a nice cluster then 1 or 2 rounds that just go way out.
All rounds were single fed as its easier then using loading gate.

I will report back after range visit

[deye243]

Just remember about the only lever action centerfire out there that will group anywhere near a bolt gun is The Browning blr winchesters and Marlins if you can get anywhere near 2" to 3" at 100 yards you definitely have a keeper and thank you lucky stars

[Oldbloke]

Agree with above comment. That's about the best you will get.
I had a Marlin 30.30 yonks ago. Loved that rifle. But about 1.5" at 50 was the best it would do so got a Win M70 30.06.

But look around that can do a bit better with help.

[straightshooter]

jpsauer88
It is important to remember that a 444 Marlin has no pretensions of being a "target" rifle it is purely a hunting rifle and is in a caliber that excels at what it was designed for.
The rifle itself has in it's construction a number of design features inimical to consistent accuracy even if your example has an excellent barrel and quality ammunition. Such as a lightweight barrel, two piece stock, magazine tube attached to the barrel and forestock attached to the barrel. So it needs to be treated differently to any, even average, decent bolt action.
You may think you have done a reasonable amount of testing without a satisfactory result but if you have retained your targets the first thing to check is what variation there is in group centers as compared to your point of aim. If it is substantial then you have your answer.
Also the load you are using is comparatively mild so I would suggest you could quite safely move to a load 1/2 a grain or 1 grain less than the ADI max load for 2207 to get better terminal performance.
If the load you use is too mild you will find that your primers protrude after firing.
I can't comment about the use of 2207 or current XTP projectiles as my testing was done with Reloder 7 and 1970 and 80's era Hornady or Sierra 240 grain soft point. Hornady 265 were OK but not as accurate. 1990's era 300 XTP were about the level of accuracy you have been getting which possibly could be due to the 38" twist.
Forget about "ladder testing", the theory behind it is flawed in that it ignores other confounding yet important contributing factors.
My advice is to, as far as possible when shooting off a bench, hold the rifle as you would if you were shooting offhand. The more repeatably consistent your grip on the rifle the more consistent your accuracy will be.