Good News on Primers

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Good News on Primers

Post by wanneroo » 20 Nov 2022, 10:29 am

https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/202 ... ttle-rock/

Good news on primers. Fiocchi, who of course has made primers for ages in Italy, is now opening a primer plant in the USA.

Sig Sauer is talking about making primers and there is a company opening up an old US Army arsenal for production of primers and ammo.

Remington I think has their primers back in production now too.

Eventually it should get to a point it's not a concern anymore.
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Re: Good News on Primers

Post by bladeracer » 20 Nov 2022, 12:04 pm

wanneroo wrote:https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2022/nov/15/ammunition-maker-fiocchi-usa-to-build-primer-factory-in-little-rock/

Good news on primers. Fiocchi, who of course has made primers for ages in Italy, is now opening a primer plant in the USA.

Sig Sauer is talking about making primers and there is a company opening up an old US Army arsenal for production of primers and ammo.

Remington I think has their primers back in production now too.

Eventually it should get to a point it's not a concern anymore.


With all these new sources I wonder if they're likely to flood the market :-)
I would hope after this last mess that people will be smart enough to buy their lifetime's supply of primers as soon as they hit the shelves and forget about ever needing primers again.
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Re: Good News on Primers

Post by bigrich » 20 Nov 2022, 12:08 pm

wanneroo wrote:https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2022/nov/15/ammunition-maker-fiocchi-usa-to-build-primer-factory-in-little-rock/

Good news on primers. Fiocchi, who of course has made primers for ages in Italy, is now opening a primer plant in the USA.

Sig Sauer is talking about making primers and there is a company opening up an old US Army arsenal for production of primers and ammo.

Remington I think has their primers back in production now too.

Eventually it should get to a point it's not a concern anymore.


oh thank god . bearing such good news waneroo you deserve a beer :D

now if you can just solve the pistol powder problem i'd nominate you for a OBE :D :thumbsup:
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Re: Good News on Primers

Post by MtnMan » 20 Nov 2022, 12:35 pm

Probably be vacuumed up by the market in the centre of the universe (USA) leaving none for the peasants.
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Re: Good News on Primers

Post by wanneroo » 21 Nov 2022, 2:00 am

bladeracer wrote:With all these new sources I wonder if they're likely to flood the market :-)
I would hope after this last mess that people will be smart enough to buy their lifetime's supply of primers as soon as they hit the shelves and forget about ever needing primers again.


Well I think part of the issue is that over the past 15 years there have been so many guns sold here in the USA that the size of the shooting community has grown and as a result there is increased demand for ammo. A lot of young people are into reloading now so there is increased demand for components as well.

So it was probably getting time for some new primer production to come online as Federal CCI couldn't keep up.

Primers are still priced here $100/1000 which is a bit rich. Primers are not expensive to manufacture. The actual cost I was told was a fraction of a penny to make.

All those primers I was buying cheap during the Trump years, I questioned whether I needed that many and well, I did. I've bought almost no factory ammo and have been reloading normally with no concerns these past 3 years. My ammo cans are still filled with primers.
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Re: Good News on Primers

Post by wanneroo » 21 Nov 2022, 2:04 am

bigrich wrote:
oh thank god . bearing such good news waneroo you deserve a beer :D

now if you can just solve the pistol powder problem i'd nominate you for a OBE :D :thumbsup:


It will probably take a few years to normalize but it will in time.

Pistol powder is widely available here but you might not get your first choice. Hodgdon has been making powders available to reloaders, such as CFE Pistol, Win 231, etc. Vihtavouri is available now and some Alliant powders here and there.

Pistol primers can be found but again the cost is high.

I have noticed 9mm prices are dropping like a stone here in the USA leaving some retailers with high priced inventory and having to mark it down to move it.
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Re: Good News on Primers

Post by dnedative » 21 Nov 2022, 5:46 pm

wanneroo wrote:Primers are still priced here $100/1000 which is a bit rich. Primers are not expensive to manufacture. The actual cost I was told was a fraction of a penny to make



Free market and all that aside, they are taking advantage of the situation incredibly
Its cheaper to buy 1000 rounds of 22LR than it is to buy 1000 small pistol primers, the cost of a single 22LR is probably comparable with 10 primers.
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Re: Good News on Primers

Post by Oldbloke » 21 Nov 2022, 9:43 pm

dnedative wrote:
wanneroo wrote:Primers are still priced here $100/1000 which is a bit rich. Primers are not expensive to manufacture. The actual cost I was told was a fraction of a penny to make



Free market and all that aside, they are taking advantage of the situation incredibly
Its cheaper to buy 1000 rounds of 22LR than it is to buy 1000 small pistol primers, the cost of a single 22LR is probably comparable with 10 primers.


Yep, for sure.
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Re: Good News on Primers

Post by wanneroo » 22 Nov 2022, 12:45 am

dnedative wrote:
wanneroo wrote:Primers are still priced here $100/1000 which is a bit rich. Primers are not expensive to manufacture. The actual cost I was told was a fraction of a penny to make



Free market and all that aside, they are taking advantage of the situation incredibly
Its cheaper to buy 1000 rounds of 22LR than it is to buy 1000 small pistol primers, the cost of a single 22LR is probably comparable with 10 primers.


Perhaps. I think it just comes down to demand and short supplies. Anytime supplies are short, everyone has to raise prices along the supply chain to make a profit. Fewer available to sell means raising prices and perhaps the margin so you can make the same profit you did when supplies were plentiful. In simplistic terms if I used to be able to get and sell 100 boxes of something but now I can only get 10 boxes, I have to raise prices significantly and widen the margin so I can make the same profit that I did before.
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Re: Good News on Primers

Post by dnedative » 22 Nov 2022, 7:50 pm

That doesn't apply to the manufacturers; They are not selling them on their military or commercial contracts at a loss, they are not making any less than they used to either its just that various government ammunition plants have been told to up production of ammunition, contracts are written to be able to account for this and the method for that is essentially stopping the retail sale of them.


Its supply and demand, short supply and huge demand means you can almost name your price to a point.
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Re: Good News on Primers

Post by bluehorse » 26 Nov 2022, 3:03 pm

Good News ?? hmmp I rang my local ammo supplier . They have large pistol only except if u want gold plated BR type small pistol . I have a few small rifle left to feed my hornet on .GRRR
Due to the scarcity of primers and powder outside of capital cities Isuccumbed to temptation and bought a new 223 . At least if there is no powder or primers I can possibly access tailermade fodder for 223 . Does 5.56 fit in it it safely ?
Modern methods and modern communications dont add up to availability . New factories coming on line are like a Pie in the sky . Is like cheaper electricity bills post last election , but dont hang by your thumbs waiting .
Lack of ammo and components for reloading is a sad indictment of those ??? who are running the show . All of the bulls**t about just in time inventories for manufacturing so everything can run smoothly .
I think today theycall everything Spin .
Then if ucan locate the odd box of primers how in the F##### do we get it unless we drive to the F### city . Nobodywants to transport it . or post via the post office or put on a grey hound bus or put on passenger rail freight .
Wakeup Australia we are going backwards not forwards . if you live away from capital cities . Dont listen to would be primer manufacturers . Listen out for supplies getting to your towns far away from the wankers in the cities who try to run things . I think they are so far removed from realities of life that running a chook raffle is far beyond their capabilities let alone running a country ,.
I await good news of primers being readily available as theyonce were before this current crop of ??? DILLS ??
I hope the primer manufacturers have better luck than another recent crop of gunners who were gunner open up new coalmines . Hahhahhaha
The joke must be on the Australian public having so much crapp put over us ,.
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Re: Good News on Primers

Post by bluehorse » 26 Nov 2022, 3:14 pm

What good news . I have to drive to my capital city 4 hrs there and if it is 4 hours there then it is probably 4 hrs back but after my 4 hrs to city fate and pot luck decides if indeed they are primed with primers .
It is all still Political !! and our powers that be dont give a flying F##### if we can buy a primer or not . I was told a pallet of primers arrived recently and 5days later all gone . Hmmm Iam left wondering if the toilet paper hoarders moved in on the gun owners who want to reload .
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Re: Good News on Primers

Post by bluehorse » 26 Nov 2022, 3:23 pm

Hmmm primers Well it solves accuracy and scope problems . Just hold the rifle up pointed at target and yell Bang . Gotcha . I suppose that was a hit or a miss . .
Have to go buy factory made if dont want to sayBang bang . Gotcha . I have been reloading a couple of years and had bad powder problems case problems but now no problems because without primers the powder falls out the falsh hole . and too many misfires . in fifty odd years Ihave never seen such hopeless nonsensical supply problems . It is all caused by the other fella . . They must think we are a bunch of fools
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Re: Good News on Primers

Post by Lazarus » 26 Nov 2022, 3:24 pm

bluehorse wrote:What good news . I have to drive to my capital city 4 hrs there and if it is 4 hours there then it is probably 4 hrs back but after my 4 hrs to city fate and pot luck decides if indeed they are primed with primers .
It is all still Political !! and our powers that be dont give a flying F##### if we can buy a primer or not . I was told a pallet of primers arrived recently and 5days later all gone . Hmmm Iam left wondering if the toilet paper hoarders moved in on the gun owners who want to reload .


G'day bluehorse

Mate Wanneroo lives in America, so it's good news there.
As usual, because Australia makes fcck all now, we are waiting for a turn at hind titty.

I think what he meant was, once Americans have their fill, we might get a couple here.
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Re: Good News on Primers

Post by bluehorse » 26 Nov 2022, 3:27 pm

I think the real truth of the matter is we r a small country . Our Truck market used to be5% so we were a dumpingground . Same argumant can be applied to firearms and ammunition . We dont have enough power as a small customer . We have to take whatwe get and like it or lump it
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Re: Good News on Primers

Post by Lazarus » 26 Nov 2022, 3:52 pm

bluehorse wrote:I think the real truth of the matter is we r a small country . Our Truck market used to be5% so we were a dumpingground . Same argumant can be applied to firearms and ammunition . We dont have enough power as a small customer . We have to take whatwe get and like it or lump it


True, that's a big part of it.

We wait longer for everything, cars, electronics, you name it.
Geopricing comes into it as well, but because successive governments of both persuasions have sold our manufacturing industry down the river for "jobs for the boys" on political retirement we're left sucking a dry tit.
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Re: Good News on Primers

Post by bladeracer » 26 Nov 2022, 7:30 pm

I'm surprised you found any pistol primers at all. And then to buy a rifle that uses small rifle primers isn't making life any easier. Can your dealer get small rifle primers?

Primer supply is hopefully going the right way now, but it might still be some time before we see any supply filter down to Australia. Without pistol powders though there's not much need for primers either.

Yes, no commercial transport of Primers or ammunition since September last year. If your dealer can't get it for you then you will have to travel yourself.

bluehorse wrote:Good News ?? hmmp I rang my local ammo supplier . They have large pistol only except if u want gold plated BR type small pistol . I have a few small rifle left to feed my hornet on .GRRR
Due to the scarcity of primers and powder outside of capital cities Isuccumbed to temptation and bought a new 223 . At least if there is no powder or primers I can possibly access tailermade fodder for 223 . Does 5.56 fit in it it safely ?
Modern methods and modern communications dont add up to availability . New factories coming on line are like a Pie in the sky . Is like cheaper electricity bills post last election , but dont hang by your thumbs waiting .
Lack of ammo and components for reloading is a sad indictment of those ??? who are running the show . All of the bulls**t about just in time inventories for manufacturing so everything can run smoothly .
I think today theycall everything Spin .
Then if ucan locate the odd box of primers how in the F##### do we get it unless we drive to the F### city . Nobodywants to transport it . or post via the post office or put on a grey hound bus or put on passenger rail freight .
Wakeup Australia we are going backwards not forwards . if you live away from capital cities . Dont listen to would be primer manufacturers . Listen out for supplies getting to your towns far away from the wankers in the cities who try to run things . I think they are so far removed from realities of life that running a chook raffle is far beyond their capabilities let alone running a country ,.
I await good news of primers being readily available as theyonce were before this current crop of ??? DILLS ??
I hope the primer manufacturers have better luck than another recent crop of gunners who were gunner open up new coalmines . Hahhahhaha
The joke must be on the Australian public having so much crapp put over us ,.
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Re: Good News on Primers

Post by bladeracer » 26 Nov 2022, 7:32 pm

bluehorse wrote:What good news . I have to drive to my capital city 4 hrs there and if it is 4 hours there then it is probably 4 hrs back but after my 4 hrs to city fate and pot luck decides if indeed they are primed with primers .
It is all still Political !! and our powers that be dont give a flying F##### if we can buy a primer or not . I was told a pallet of primers arrived recently and 5days later all gone . Hmmm Iam left wondering if the toilet paper hoarders moved in on the gun owners who want to reload .


A pallet of pistol primers isn't going to last long when we have thousands of pistol shooters that haven't been able to shoot at all for almost two years.

I'm not seeing any politics in it at all, just market forces of very limited supply against huge demand.
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Re: Good News on Primers

Post by wanneroo » 27 Nov 2022, 2:34 am

Lazarus wrote:
bluehorse wrote:What good news . I have to drive to my capital city 4 hrs there and if it is 4 hours there then it is probably 4 hrs back but after my 4 hrs to city fate and pot luck decides if indeed they are primed with primers .
It is all still Political !! and our powers that be dont give a flying F##### if we can buy a primer or not . I was told a pallet of primers arrived recently and 5days later all gone . Hmmm Iam left wondering if the toilet paper hoarders moved in on the gun owners who want to reload .


G'day bluehorse

Mate Wanneroo lives in America, so it's good news there.
As usual, because Australia makes fcck all now, we are waiting for a turn at hind titty.

I think what he meant was, once Americans have their fill, we might get a couple here.


Well in the end these shortages will ease over time as new supply comes online. I think as we get Remington going again, the new plant in Texas, Sig Sauer might jump in and the Fiocchi plant confirmed, things will get better. It's clear CCI/Federal can no longer fulfill the market as they did.

It's not all roses here, supply is spotty and when found is running about $100 per thousand.

I stocked up during the Trump years so I am set for a few years before I have to worry. Keep in mind though I learned my lesson in 2013 when supplies were short and I said never again.
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Re: Good News on Primers

Post by wanneroo » 27 Nov 2022, 2:37 am

bladeracer wrote:
bluehorse wrote:What good news . I have to drive to my capital city 4 hrs there and if it is 4 hours there then it is probably 4 hrs back but after my 4 hrs to city fate and pot luck decides if indeed they are primed with primers .
It is all still Political !! and our powers that be dont give a flying F##### if we can buy a primer or not . I was told a pallet of primers arrived recently and 5days later all gone . Hmmm Iam left wondering if the toilet paper hoarders moved in on the gun owners who want to reload .


A pallet of pistol primers isn't going to last long when we have thousands of pistol shooters that haven't been able to shoot at all for almost two years.

I'm not seeing any politics in it at all, just market forces of very limited supply against huge demand.


Yes one pallet ain't gonna last long, you need a few shipping containers of them.

Pretty sad there is no commercial transport of ammo or primers, that is crazy.

Here in the USA we are even getting primers now from Argentina. I guess they are made in some government arsenal there.
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Re: Good News on Primers

Post by bladeracer » 27 Nov 2022, 3:13 am

wanneroo wrote:Yes one pallet ain't gonna last long, you need a few shipping containers of them.

Pretty sad there is no commercial transport of ammo or primers, that is crazy.

Here in the USA we are even getting primers now from Argentina. I guess they are made in some government arsenal there.


I think transport is due to our tiny market, combined with some difficult "safety" laws (we can easily transport other stuff that most people would consider far riskier than ammo or primers). There's not a large enough market for more than one company to bother maintaining the licences required, and since they (TNT) pulled out last year no other company has so far decided to fill the gap, hardly surprising when there was hardly any ammo or primers around to be transported anyway. Rimfire ammo supply has improved this year though (I have no idea if centrefire rifle/pistol ammo even had any issues here as I don't use it). When we start seeing powders and primers being made and/or imported in useful quantities hopefully the market will pick up enough to entice somebody to take it on again.
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Re: Good News on Primers

Post by Oldbloke » 27 Nov 2022, 7:15 am

bladeracer wrote:
wanneroo wrote:Yes one pallet ain't gonna last long, you need a few shipping containers of them.

Pretty sad there is no commercial transport of ammo or primers, that is crazy.

Here in the USA we are even getting primers now from Argentina. I guess they are made in some government arsenal there.


I think transport is due to our tiny market, combined with some difficult "safety" laws (we can easily transport other stuff that most people would consider far riskier than ammo or primers). There's not a large enough market for more than one company to bother maintaining the licences required, and since they (TNT) pulled out last year no other company has so far decided to fill the gap, hardly surprising when there was hardly any ammo or primers around to be transported anyway. Rimfire ammo supply has improved this year though (I have no idea if centrefire rifle/pistol ammo even had any issues here as I don't use it). When we start seeing powders and primers being made and/or imported in useful quantities hopefully the market will pick up enough to entice somebody to take it on again.


Not correct. Do you think the ammo, powder & primers use magic carpets to move from ports, or Mulwala to the LGS?

Fastway took over the transport of firearms just a few weeks after TNT dropped it.
https://www.gunworld.com.au/shipping/

And the DG requirements are being amended to make the transport of ammo etc it less onerous.

https://sifa.net.au/sifa-successful-on- ... g-reforms/
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Re: Good News on Primers

Post by Lazarus » 27 Nov 2022, 7:24 am

bladeracer wrote:
wanneroo wrote:Yes one pallet ain't gonna last long, you need a few shipping containers of them.

Pretty sad there is no commercial transport of ammo or primers, that is crazy.

Here in the USA we are even getting primers now from Argentina. I guess they are made in some government arsenal there.


I think transport is due to our tiny market, combined with some difficult "safety" laws (we can easily transport other stuff that most people would consider far riskier than ammo or primers). There's not a large enough market for more than one company to bother maintaining the licences required, and since they (TNT) pulled out last year no other company has so far decided to fill the gap, hardly surprising when there was hardly any ammo or primers around to be transported anyway. Rimfire ammo supply has improved this year though (I have no idea if centrefire rifle/pistol ammo even had any issues here as I don't use it). When we start seeing powders and primers being made and/or imported in useful quantities hopefully the market will pick up enough to entice somebody to take it on again.


The "safety" laws are where they get us in a bind for sure.
That and insurance, the anti crowd put pressure on insurers to make premiums prohibitively high and it becomes commercially untenable to do the job.

@Wanneroo

G'day,

Mate I'd love to be paying that again, when they come in, last I saw were $300/1000.

On a slight digression, seems to be getting chilly up north, you copping this?

images (2) (23).jpeg
images (2) (23).jpeg (15.03 KiB) Viewed 158 times


images (2) (24).jpeg
images (2) (24).jpeg (16.48 KiB) Viewed 158 times
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Re: Good News on Primers

Post by bladeracer » 27 Nov 2022, 12:03 pm

Oldbloke wrote:Not correct. Do you think the ammo, powder & primers use magic carpets to move from ports, or Mulwala to the LGS?

Fastway took over the transport of firearms just a few weeks after TNT dropped it.
https://www.gunworld.com.au/shipping/

And the DG requirements are being amended to make the transport of ammo etc it less onerous.

https://sifa.net.au/sifa-successful-on- ... g-reforms/


At which point did I say anything about transporting firearms?
We're discussing transporting ammunition and primers, or "DG" items. My understanding is that the importers have put in place their own transport for the moment.
This is from the page you posted.
Screenshot 2022-11-27 130132.jpg
Screenshot 2022-11-27 130132.jpg (26.35 KiB) Viewed 145 times

Yes, it's good that forces are trying to address the issue but as far as I'm aware there is still no way for the public, or even the majority of dealers to move ammunition or primers (or powders) commercially.
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Re: Good News on Primers

Post by bladeracer » 27 Nov 2022, 12:10 pm

I picked up a few more primers maybe two months ago, think I paid $140/1000 for large rifle and large rifle magnum. I'll probably grab some more next week so I'll find out if they've gone up or disappeared entirely.

Lazarus wrote:The "safety" laws are where they get us in a bind for sure.
That and insurance, the anti crowd put pressure on insurers to make premiums prohibitively high and it becomes commercially untenable to do the job.

@Wanneroo

G'day,

Mate I'd love to be paying that again, when they come in, last I saw were $300/1000.

On a slight digression, seems to be getting chilly up north, you copping this?
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Re: Good News on Primers

Post by Oldbloke » 27 Nov 2022, 12:52 pm

"and since they (TNT) pulled out last year no other company has so far decided to fill the gap, hardly surprising when there was hardly any ammo or primers around to be transported anyway. "

OR do I misunderstand that?
Well, if nobody replaced TNT, how do they get to the LGS? Scotty isn't beaming them around the country mate. I understood fastaway took it up, both firearms and the DGs

Or is it you expect to have them delivered to your door? Never happened to my knowledge.


TMK It's always been transported by national carriers. Winchester was authorised for a long time.
They are being transported around the country. There MUST be a commercial carrier moving them around.
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Re: Good News on Primers

Post by bladeracer » 27 Nov 2022, 1:08 pm

Oldbloke wrote:"and since they (TNT) pulled out last year no other company has so far decided to fill the gap, hardly surprising when there was hardly any ammo or primers around to be transported anyway. "

OR do I misunderstand that?
Well, if nobody replaced TNT, how do they get to the LGS? Scotty isn't beaming them around the country mate. I understood fastaway took it up, both firearms and the DGs

Or is it you expect to have them delivered to your door? Never happened to my knowledge.


TMK It's always been transported by national carriers. Winchester was authorised for a long time.
They are being transported around the country. There MUST be a commercial carrier moving them around.


I never got ammo/primer deliveries from anybody but TNT, but I was only ordering from Rebel's (Brisbane) and maybe that's just who they used from a selection of transport companies. I'm not aware that anybody else was able to courier ammo up to last year. TNT initially were happy to deliver directly to me, then they decided a farm did not constitute a "business address" and I had to collect ammo from the local depot, then they decided they could only hand it over to a licenced dealer and I had to collect it from there - these all worked just fine for me in country Victoria.

You're saying "there must be a commercial carrier" but you don't know who it might be? Why "must" there be one though? Even the dealer you chose as an example has no way to transport DG anywhere. My conversations with the bigger dealers and importers last year, and earlier this year lead me to believe the importers themselves were putting something in place to move their own product out to dealers, that does not help you or me at all if our dealers don't fit in with those runs. Early this year it took four weeks to get a large shipment of ammunition down from Brisbane to a Victorian dealer - that does not sound like a commercially-viable operation to me. It was probably one bloke in a truck.
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Re: Good News on Primers

Post by Oldbloke » 27 Nov 2022, 1:26 pm

OK
I didn't understand that your talking about LGS to your door. I was unaware that could be done. But obviously very limited. Was, but not now apparently.

1. LGS to door has stopped. OK. That's a bugger for those who need that service.


2. Ports to LGS is still happening. Right? Only way for overseas company or importer to transport DGs is a DG licenced carrier. Full stop. Someone is doing it. We just don't know who it is. But my bet is Fastaway. I'm about 90% sure I read that some where. Again, unless flying carpets are in use.
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Re: Good News on Primers

Post by bladeracer » 27 Nov 2022, 1:42 pm

Oldbloke wrote:OK
I didn't understand that your talking about LGS to your door. I was unaware that could be done. But obviously very limited. Was, but not now apparently.

1. LGS to door has stopped. OK. That's a bugger for those who need that service.


2. Ports to LGS is still happening. Right? Only way for overseas company or importer to transport DGs is a DG licenced carrier. Full stop. Someone is doing it. We just don't know who it is. But my bet is Fastaway. I'm about 90% sure I read that some where. Again, unless flying carpets are in use.


Transport has stopped period, I can't order ammo from anywhere, even having it delivered to my dealer for collection.
Perhaps ask the gunshop that you posted why they can't transport DG anywhere when you believe they can?
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bladeracer
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Re: Good News on Primers

Post by wanneroo » 27 Nov 2022, 2:31 pm

Lazarus wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
wanneroo wrote:Yes one pallet ain't gonna last long, you need a few shipping containers of them.

Pretty sad there is no commercial transport of ammo or primers, that is crazy.

Here in the USA we are even getting primers now from Argentina. I guess they are made in some government arsenal there.


I think transport is due to our tiny market, combined with some difficult "safety" laws (we can easily transport other stuff that most people would consider far riskier than ammo or primers). There's not a large enough market for more than one company to bother maintaining the licences required, and since they (TNT) pulled out last year no other company has so far decided to fill the gap, hardly surprising when there was hardly any ammo or primers around to be transported anyway. Rimfire ammo supply has improved this year though (I have no idea if centrefire rifle/pistol ammo even had any issues here as I don't use it). When we start seeing powders and primers being made and/or imported in useful quantities hopefully the market will pick up enough to entice somebody to take it on again.


The "safety" laws are where they get us in a bind for sure.
That and insurance, the anti crowd put pressure on insurers to make premiums prohibitively high and it becomes commercially untenable to do the job.

@Wanneroo

G'day,

Mate I'd love to be paying that again, when they come in, last I saw were $300/1000.

On a slight digression, seems to be getting chilly up north, you copping this?

images (2) (23).jpeg


images (2) (24).jpeg


Some of the gun stores and online stores sell them here for more up to around $125, but I would say $100 is average. Very high IMO.

I got the contact info for a place that is mainly a wholesaler but they do cash and carry for people off the street, no phone or internet sales. Their price is $66 a box but they are 3 hours from my house, so maybe on a nice winters day with nothing to do I will check them out. Maybe arrange to meet some relatives that live nearby for lunch.

I live in a geographically odd area in that I am sheltered by mountains to the east and west, it's a little bit open to the north and slopes upward from the south. And I live hours from the Great Lakes so I really do not get any lake effect snow like they do. The little lakes to the direct north, if the wind blows from that way I can get lake effect snow squalls but typically the amounts are small. The only time I have to worry about heavy snow is if it comes up from the south, when it slopes upward it wrings it all out here. So my snowfall every winter is dictated by where the weather comes from. I'd say on average 1 out of every 5 years will be heavy with snow, 2-3 will be average bits and bobs of it and 1 winter will be dry where I hardly have to ever plow or shovel at all. That big storm that hit Erie and Buffalo, I maybe got about 4 inches or so and it's pretty much melted by now.
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