243win bullet length

[Nath__111]

Hi all, so I’m loading some of these 243win bullets today. I just wanted to check with you guys the only info on overall bullet length i can find is they state maximum length is 2.710 inch but there is no minimum spec as if there was I’d go exactly in the middle of the two. Do you guys know what overall length I should be pressing these bullets to? Also I’m going to make my loads at these powder grains using AR2209 and 87g v max:
-39g
-40g
-41g
-41.5g
-42g
-42.5g
-43g
-43.5g
-44g (just over max )
-45g ( 1.5 over max but I have read a lot of good results of people running 45g with 2209 and 87g v max. ( just have to observe for pressure signs). Or should I stick clear of this load?

Just wanted to run these powder loads by you guys and see what you think and If you could steer me on the right direction with the overall bullet length that would be greatly appreciated. Thanks heaps guys.

[JohnV]

Just load three rounds each powder weight . It's hard because you don't say what kind of gun and action you are loading for .
I would probably start at 41 grains and work up from there . I presume you are talking about OAL length . From tip of the projectile to base of the case . First you have to consider any magazine length either removable mag or internal magazine if it's a bolt action .
You can't make them longer than the mag unless you feed them by hand .
You can't make them so long that the projectile could lodge in the lands and then if you extract the ammo the projectile can pull out of the case and stay in the lands , which is a dangerous situation if you don't recognize what has happened .
Make up a dummy round , no primer , no powder . Play around with the seating depth a bit a time while gently cambering the dummy round feeling for when the bolt will not close because the round is too long . Do not jam it in go very very gently and make sure you clip the base of the case under the extractor claw by hand each time . Keep winding the seating die stem down and seating it more each try until the bolt just closes easily . Then try it in the magazine . If it fits easily in the mag so then wind down the seating stem half a turn and you should be now seating just off the lands. Polish up the projectile with fine steel wool and re-chamber . Look for any land marks around the projectile . If you see any turn the seating stem down another half turn if it don't show any marks then you are good to go on OAL as the projectile is safely off the lands and fits the magazine . It hard to say what length will be the main mitigating factor , the length of the magazine or the chamber depth to the lands . You have to work with both . You don't want projectiles jammed into the lands on a hunting rifle it's potentially dangerous if a projectile gets stuck .
Pressure signs are , primers start to flatten and loose their outer rounded edge . Primers start to crater around the firing pin dent . Bolt lift start to get harder and extraction harder . Don't ever try to use other peoples maximum loads . Guns even of exactly the same model vary in how much pressure it takes to be too much pressure . Your own gun is the best gauge of what is going on and when to back off the powder charge if you know the signs well and don't ignore them .
I think you should stay well under max charges , look for accuracy and reliable functioning first not velocity .
I would rather hit them in the head at 2750 fps than miss them at 3200 fps .

[No1Mk3]

As JohnV said, the overall length is determined by what will fit in the magazine and the chamber with regards hunting ammo. if you stay under the listed maximum OAL your cartridge will fit every magazine and SAAMI chamber ever made, but may not give best accuracy in your rifle, There is no actual minimum other than what will physically chamber in your rifle, too short may lead to loading issues, as well as often giving poor accuracy. For target work where cartridges are single loaded OAL is determined by distance to the lands and experimentation to find accuracy nodes for bullet jump once you have determined best powder load (remember faster is not always best). In my 243 (Ruger 77VT) with 87gr V-Max I load 46.0gr of 2209 with an OAL of 2.78" to give .024" jump in my chamber. I don't use the magazine

[JohnV]

Another thing to be aware of is when changing projectiles the new projectile can have a different shape of the ogive and that can upset the previously set die position . So when you change projectiles it's best to redo the whole dummy load thing with the new projectile , finding the lands and resetting the seater die to stay off the lands .

[Nath__111]

Sorry guys, yeah it’s a bolt action Ruger M77 MK2 with an internal magazine. I want to have it set up so that I can use it for target shooting and hunting without having to change anything to the rounds when I’m doing either. I know you probably can’t have the best of both worlds between a target and hunting gun but if I can find a happy medium between the two I’ll be more than happy. I forgot to mention that I meant bullet length, meaning from the base of the case to the end of the projectile when pressed into the shell.
I just wanted to have the higher powder charged rounds ( the 44g and the 45g ) on hand in case I have no success with the other loads as the range is a fair way away from where I am, if I have success with the lower charged rounds I won’t need to use the 44g and 45g but if I don’t I will have them on hand to test just a thought. Thanks for that guys, I’ll make a dummy round and test it out and see how it cycles. Thanks again, cheers guys.

[Blr243]

Id be setting it up shorter than land contact and also ensuring easy reliable function in the mag ... contacting th lands you can occasionally run into trouble if yiu have a bullet with sloppy neck tension Chamber a round in The field and try to extract it but its stuck in the chamber and u have powder all thru your action. . This is very unpleasant ....

[SCJ429]

As others have said, you may be restricted by magazine length but the further out of the case you seat the bullet, the bigger you effectively make it regarding case volume.
If you are trying to find the maximum safe pressure your rifle is happy with, then just load one round per powder charge and shoot them as one group. Once you get to 44 grains only go up in 0.2 grain increments and be sensitive to pressure signs.
When you know the maximum you are comfortable with, work back from there in 0.3 grain reductions to find a group that shoots.
That is if you are seeing flattened primers and the bolt feels sticky at 47.2 stop, load 47.0 as your fastest group and work backwards to 46.7 and so on.

[GQshayne]

For hunting purposes, I used 45gr of 2209 for many years. But I moved away from max loads after I replaced a barrel. I can't tell the difference and neither can anything I have shot.

As has been said already, your rifle will be different to ours so we cannot give you a spec. I have two .243 seating dies, and that is because I have two .243 rifles and they are very different for bullet length.

[JohnV]

For hunting purposes, I used 45gr of 2209 for many years. But I moved away from max loads after I replaced a barrel. I can't tell the difference and neither can anything I have shot.

As has been said already, your rifle will be different to ours so we cannot give you a spec. I have two .243 seating dies, and that is because I have two .243 rifles and they are very different for bullet length.

That's a good plan . I did that also for some years but since I bought Hornady new dimension dies for 243 I was lucky enough to find cheap micrometers at Sinclair International that fit the dies . They are not as good or as accurate as Redding micrometers but good enough for the bush . I now just record the micrometer settings but that still has the drawback of loosing the notebook with the settings in it . As a back up I usually make a dummy load up for any projectile changes and tie a tag to the extractor groove . I am big on tags now because I do tend to forget things like that . I am at 46 grains of AR2209 in my 243 behind an 81 grain flat base HP bullet . I don't like max loads either but it shoots well and hits hard and the recoil in a 17 lb gun is mild .
I built the gun to have a go at shooting longer ranges in a layup position upto about 400 and a stretch to 500 so the extra velocity is handy . Cancer operations , failed operations and Covid came along and stopped me from using it so I have only taken 1 fox with it so far , back when I first built it . The way prices are going up all the time I am not sure I will be able to afford traveling away anymore . I wish I could find a closer property in the Upper Hunter area to take some foxes and dogs , it would cut down on the fuel costs .

[Oldbloke]

0.5mm (0.020") shorter than touching the lands is generally a good place to be. ( 0.020" bullet jump)

1. First find the oal touching the lands. Write it down and keep a note book.

2. Then set up to be 0.5mm shorter.

There are a few ways Ti determine when the bullet is "touching the lands". This is how I now do it. I just use normal dies. Micrometer is not necessary if you take care.
And I don't force the bolt closed, just wait till it drops. You will feel it getting close.

https://youtu.be/xtF3UqvnaDs like all yanks he talks a lot. Lol

[SCJ429]

For hunting purposes, I used 45gr of 2209 for many years. But I moved away from max loads after I replaced a barrel. I can't tell the difference and neither can anything I have shot.

As has been said already, your rifle will be different to ours so we cannot give you a spec. I have two .243 seating dies, and that is because I have two .243 rifles and they are very different for bullet length.

What is "max load" ? What ADI publish or what you tested in your rifle?
How much did you reduce your load by? Half or a whole grain reduction? More? Have you noticed any improvement in throat errosion? Did you consider rechambering in a calibre that was kinder on barrels?
I think if you have a 243, why not exploit it's capabilities and replace the barrel when you wear it out.

[animalpest]

Max load is what your rifle can take. Each rifle is different. And that means you don't use maximum loads!
There won't be an "improvement in throat erosion" as wear and erosion cannot be reversed. Every cartridge fired will cause throat erosion, hot loads simply speed up the process.

[JohnV]

Big case capacity , in a small diameter bore with big charges of slow burning stick powders seems to erode the throat faster .
Wear and erosion can not be reversed but it can be slowed down a bit using , " properly " moly coated projectiles .
I know it works I have barrels that prove it works but it's only going to give about 25 to 40 % longer barrel life depending on the cartridge and what you accept as reasonable usable accuracy . I had one barrel in 223 that went 7000+ rounds and would still hold .75 to 1 inch groups .
Target shooters would say the barrel is no good but for hunting it was still ok . I traded that gun in on another 223 but I stopped counting rounds . Don't do the amount of pest shooting anymore so there's no point really . Moly coating does work but for many it may not be worth the trouble and it's illegal to shoot roos professionally with coated bullets .

[Blr243]

What makes moly coating illegal for roo shooting ?

[SCJ429]

Max load is what your rifle can take. Each rifle is different. And that means you don't use maximum loads!
There won't be an "improvement in throat erosion" as wear and erosion cannot be reversed. Every cartridge fired will cause throat erosion, hot loads simply speed up the process.

Yes, not quite what I said. He rebarreled his rifle and then used reduced loads. I was asking if he saw an improvement in throat erosion using those reduced loads. That is, comparing the new barrel to the old one where he loaded at 45 grains for a 87 grain bullet.
Yes I understand that there is no barrel fairy who can use a tiny TIG to magically restore fire cracking in your chambers throat.

[Nath__111]

Awesome, thanks heaps guy appreciate all the help.

[animalpest]

What makes moly coating illegal for roo shooting ?

Yeah, I too would like to know where this has come from

[on_one_wheel]

What makes moly coating illegal for roo shooting ?

I haven't heard of that one either, seems strange given we don't eat the head and the toxicity of lead

[Oldbloke]

What makes moly coating illegal for roo shooting ?

Confused Stan Laurel.jpeg (47.64 KiB) Viewed 3480 times

[GQshayne]

For hunting purposes, I used 45gr of 2209 for many years. But I moved away from max loads after I replaced a barrel. I can't tell the difference and neither can anything I have shot.

As has been said already, your rifle will be different to ours so we cannot give you a spec. I have two .243 seating dies, and that is because I have two .243 rifles and they are very different for bullet length.

What is "max load" ? What ADI publish or what you tested in your rifle?
How much did you reduce your load by? Half or a whole grain reduction? More? Have you noticed any improvement in throat errosion? Did you consider rechambering in a calibre that was kinder on barrels?
I think if you have a 243, why not exploit it's capabilities and replace the barrel when you wear it out.

I have deliberately generalised for two reasons. The OP will need to find his own reference points in his own rifle, so specifiying loads I use in my two rifles will be different for him anyway.

And secondly, I have not done any of the testing and development many others such as yourself do. I based my loads on recommended data, rather than increasing the load until I saw pressure signs. When I replaced the barrel, I was fully aware that the load may not have been the culprit. But I decided to use a milder load, as my father used in his Sako. In the field, I could see no difference for the hunting we did.

When doing basic testing looking at accuracy, staying close to recommended loads, I have never seen any difference in my old Tikka. Of course velocity will be less. In the Tikka I reduced my load to 44gn, and when I obtained my old FN BLR I decided to use 43gn. This is with 90gn Hot Cor projectiles, and the old 45gn load was with an 87gn Interlock. These loads are within recommended min & max, and work well for me. If you wanted to suggest that this is not "load development" I would have to agree. I just copy what works for others, and then test it out. If it works for me I use it.

I have tried doing proper load developemnt a few times over the years, making up different loads in small increments to test. But as all my loads have been accurate (lucky I know), and I do not have a means to record velocity, I just get bored and go home with some untested. Sorry.

I like the .243. Certainly the old Tikka has the potential to handle a more powerful load, but I do not need one. Unused potential perhaps, but the things I have hunted with it would not have been any deader.

[JohnV]

That is very good idea to reduce the pressure in a BLR . While the BLR is an excellent gun it is not as strong in the lock up as some bolt actions are and you don't want hard extraction as it wears away at the gear system and can damage it .
The main reason for some people seeking extra velocity is for longer range shooting . The further out that the projectile stays above the speed of sound the better and the longer your potential accurate and stable range is and the higher the kinetic energy . I load my 243 to 46 grains of AR2209 for that reason with an 81 grain to 87 grain bullet range to try and keep it above the speed of sound further out and have a bit more knock down power . On paper it shoots good at 26 grains but the barrel erosion will be faster but I am using Moly Coated bullets which means the true pressure curve is more like if I was using approx. 44 grains of powder on an uncoated bullet .

[JohnV]

What makes moly coating illegal for roo shooting ?

Confused Stan Laurel.jpeg

I don't really know but I read it some place in the code of ethics for professional roo shooting . It's not specifically Moly it just said " coated bullets " . I am not even sure if that has been changed or not but I did see it some years back .
I can't see a problem when you are shooting them in the head anyway . I am not going to bother searching for it others can do that and I am happy to be proven wrong but I did see it .

[animalpest]

What makes moly coating illegal for roo shooting ?

Confused Stan Laurel.jpeg

I don't really know but I read it some place in the code of ethics for professional roo shooting . It's not specifically Moly it just said " coated bullets " . I am not even sure if that has been changed or not but I did see it some years back .
I can't see a problem when you are shooting them in the head anyway . I am not going to bother searching for it others can do that and I am happy to be proven wrong but I did see it .

There has only been two versions of the Code of Practice. Neither of these mentioned coated bullets.

[JohnV]

I will take your word for it not being in the code but I am sure I saw it some place , must have been wrong information

[JohnV]

Weird extra post

[Blr243]

Thats fine john. We know u are sane 99 per cent of the time