Case separation

[Robin]

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I found some once fired Winchester brass at home , it’s mine so I know that only I have handled it, after giving it a bath and then i ran it through a full length reloading die , after I finished all of them, I did my inspection and noticed this ring around the bottom of all of by Winchester brass , all of them have this ring around the same place , would you say this is ok or is it a throwaway , if it had happened on only one , then I would have tossed it but on 30 , I’m a little concerned.

[stihl88]

It's like it wants to be a belted magnum cartridge!

More than likely where the sizing die smooshed the case back into spec ~ https://www.reddit.com/r/reloading/comm ... _resizing/

Maybe sacrifice one and sand it down half way to inspect case thickness at that spot.
Does the chamber look co-planer, no proud spots? Wouldn't be the first time a chamber has been reamed poorly.

[Tinker]

I had a similar issue with some 6.5CM brass I found at the range, after full length sizing they all had a shiny ridge just forward of the case web. This wasn't present before resizing. This of course is a warning sign of impending case head separation in rimmed cartridges like .303. I cut one in half lengthways with a dremel and found there was absolutely no thinning of the case wall at that level. It was just due to the FLS die. I've since reloaded them several times with no problems.

[Robin]

I had a similar issue with some 6.5CM brass I found at the range, after full length sizing they all had a shiny ridge just forward of the case web. This wasn't present before resizing. This of course is a warning sign of impending case head separation in rimmed cartridges like .303. I cut one in half lengthways with a dremel and found there was absolutely no thinning of the case wall at that level. It was just due to the FLS die. I've since reloaded them several times with no problems.

I just cut one open and the bottom part from the crease down was slightly thicker then top part

[Oldbloke]

It's normal. Caused by a variation in manufacturing tolerances

[on_one_wheel]

Perfectly fine ....
Basically the the walls have expanded to prety much match the chamber (it does spring back ever so slightly) but the head of the case is pretty solid and has (Should've) remained the same size.

The area you are concerned about is a high stress area, especially if you full length resize regularly, it's definitely worth watching out for cracking there as that's exactly where they go.

Often you'll see that ring more pronounced on one side especially on first firing, that's due to the fact the brass will sit in the bottom of the chamber leaving most of the gap at the top, upon firing the brass expands upwards to fill the gap.

Here's one of mine
Fired 6 times, never full length resized.

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[Robin]

Thanks, I thought I might have stuffed up. In regards to full length resizing, the Hornady resizing die does that when de-priming , is it not recommended to use that each time.

[Oldbloke]

Perfectly fine ....
Basically the the walls have expanded to prety much match the chamber (it does spring back ever so slightly) but the head of the case is pretty solid and has (Should've) remained the same size.

The area you are concerned about is a high stress area, especially if you full length resize regularly, it's definitely worth watching out for cracking there as that's exactly where they go.

Often you'll see that ring more pronounced on one side especially on first firing, that's due to the fact the brass will sit in the bottom of the chamber leaving most of the gap at the top, upon firing the brass expands upwards to fill the gap.

Here's one of mine
Fired 6 times, never full length resized.

Screenshot_20250311_181706_Gallery.jpg

Excellent explanation

[Blr243]

I recently noticed some marks on my spent 4570 cases Do rimmed straight walls cases be prone to sep at the bases ? I thought this problem was more likely in bottle necked cases that have been FLS in a longish chamber

[Wapiti]

308 Winchester brass, in all our rifles, does that after the initial firing and sizing.
Awhile ago I sectioned a few brands we commonly use, and the Winchester brass is noticeably thinner. It expands in a size relationship to the chamber it's fired in, and the most noticeable area is just in front of the solid head. Don't worry about it.

Just keep in mind that, if your Winchester brass, or any other brands that's thinner, will not last as long as the thicker brands, especially if you are someone who adjusts your FLS die to contact the shell holder as the instructions say, you will be oversizing (probably shortening the case) and when fired like that each time, will not last as long as thicker brass will before separating.
That's not very good practice no matter what brass you use.
Solution is to check out the other thread on just bumping the shoulder back just enough to close the bolt with just a little "feel". This is actually better than just neck sizing because a full length sized case, when it enters the die first-up, actually gets a bit longer.
Then, when you continue to size and just lightly "bump" the shoulder back just enough to chamber, the tapered design in the case will actually "centre" the cartridge perfectly in the chamber... like a countersunk bolt in a chamfered hole.

[Robin]

This reloading has been a hell of a learning curve , and its been annoying and I'v been enjoying it at the same time, I'm sure there will be lots more to learn and it will confuse the crap out of me, however once I know it, it will be more enjoyable.

[Gamerancher]

Most factory full length sizing dies when fully adjusted will take the case back to minimum SAAMI specs.
If your fired brass won't rechamber easily, you can play around with your die to just size enough to suit your chamber by backing it out then incrementally sizing your brass until it fits your rifles chamber. Of coarse it needs to be resizing the neck enough to grip the projectile.

Blr243, yes it happens with straight walled cases, it just means the head and web of your cases aren't the same diameter as your chamber.
No two chambers are the same.

[wanneroo]

You can do the paperclip test. Unfold a paper clip, bend it as such you can insert one end into the case with a slight angle on it so you can drag the end of the paperclip along the inside of the case. Drag the end of the paperclip along the inside wall of the case from bottom to top. If the case is all good, it will be a nice straight, smooth clean pull along the interior wall of the case. If case separation is impending, as you drag the paperclip along you will feel a divot or click and if it doesn't feel smooth you've got a problem.

That is just a cursory check, keep in mind case separation can happen at any time, sometimes out of your control.

Brass in most cases, especially rifle brass, is going to wear over time and I don't have any sentimental feelings about it, if the case looks like it has a flaw, then recycle bucket it goes.

[stihl88]

Also don't hesitate to use a borescope if you have access to one https://youtu.be/mPkaqimrohs?si=0B_vFkB1zWUZdgh7&t=185
Should be able to determine if these are normal sizing marks or the beginning of case separation.

[Wapiti]

Don't rely on the paperclip test. I've had enough separations where I've checked using a spring wire tool I made a small couldn't feel a thing. Sure was obvious when they f,ew out of the chamber in two though.
I'm not saying don't use it. It's just not the sure thing people say it is across the board.

[Wm.Traynor]

Don't rely on the paperclip test. I've had enough separations where I've checked using a spring wire tool I made a small couldn't feel a thing. Sure was obvious when they f,ew out of the chamber in two though.
I'm not saying don't use it. It's just not the sure thing people say it is across the board.

Ditto

[on_one_wheel]

You could mess around testing for cracks with some dye penetrant if you want experience the joy of staining the s**t out of yourself, everything you're wearing and everything you touch.

[wanneroo]

Don't rely on the paperclip test. I've had enough separations where I've checked using a spring wire tool I made a small couldn't feel a thing. Sure was obvious when they f,ew out of the chamber in two though.
I'm not saying don't use it. It's just not the sure thing people say it is across the board.

Nothing is a sure thing when it comes to ammo or reloading.

Better than nothing though, I have found brass that on first inspection looked fine but the paper clip told otherwise.

I have no sentimental feelings about brass. If there is any suspicion I have about a piece of brass that is not right, I just toss it in the recycle bucket, no hesitation at all.

[Wapiti]

If mine has another safe loading left, it's marked with a red texta ring around the primer.
Then it's left by the side of the track somewhere, to maybe be picked up by someone else in 50 years who thinks back to when people weren't chained to ploughs again.

[Oldbloke]

If mine has another safe loading left, it's marked with a red texta ring around the primer.
Then it's left by the side of the track somewhere, to maybe be picked up by someone else in 50 years who thinks back to when people weren't chained to ploughs again.

Mmm, that's a good idea

[bladeracer]

I have no sentimental feelings about brass. If there is any suspicion I have about a piece of brass that is not right, I just toss it in the recycle bucket, no hesitation at all.

I loaded 93 split .38's yesterday, ran 43 of them through the rifle today for a quick speed practice. They ran just fine. Some of them have had half a dozen loads since they first split, the ones I fired today are no worse than before I fired them so I'll keep loading them. These are doing 910fps in the 20" rifle so not a Cowboy load.

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I also pushed some .375" balls through the .356" die and loaded them. Despite being 80gn they only make 790fps so I think the undersize bullet with its very short bearing surface is allowing gas past them. I'll push them through the .358" die now that I know they do actually work. They're too short to run through the levers but will be fine in the revolvers I think, for very light practice loads.

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[wanneroo]

I have no sentimental feelings about brass. If there is any suspicion I have about a piece of brass that is not right, I just toss it in the recycle bucket, no hesitation at all.

I loaded 93 split .38's yesterday, ran 43 of them through the rifle today for a quick speed practice. They ran just fine. Some of them have had half a dozen loads since they first split, the ones I fired today are no worse than before I fired them so I'll keep loading them. These are doing 910fps in the 20" rifle so not a Cowboy load.

20250314_150253b.jpg

20250313_164215b.jpg

I also pushed some .375" balls through the .356" die and loaded them. Despite being 80gn they only make 790fps so I think the undersize bullet with its very short bearing surface is allowing gas past them. I'll push them through the .358" die now that I know they do actually work. They're too short to run through the levers but will be fine in the revolvers I think, for very light practice loads.

20250313_155527b.jpg

Blade that has to be one of the wildest things I have ever seen in any reloading thread anywhere.

That's all recycle bucket stuff right there. Let it go and move on to it's new life being recycled into some odd thing made in China.

[on_one_wheel]

Blade, that's awesome, I'm also very sentimental.

You'd almost be at the point of giving each one of those cartridges a name.

[bladeracer]

Blade that has to be one of the wildest things I have ever seen in any reloading thread anywhere.

That's all recycle bucket stuff right there. Let it go and move on to it's new life being recycled into some odd thing made in China.

I was still loading the splits when we started doing all this Cowboy practice but it was initially only five or six, then a dozen or two and they kept getting mixed back in with the good stuff. So I stopped until I had enough of them to do a full batch I could use for practice every week.

Although they generally run just fine I would never recommend using the splits in competition. I've had two rounds where the bullet got pushed back into the case in the magazine, which will lock up a lever-action rifle. I also saw a .38 case separation at the club that left the front half of the case stuck in the chamber, though I don't know whether there was an issue with the case to begin with. But for simply dumping a lot of ammo down range very quickly I don't mind using the splits until they no longer hold the bullet. Once they split it takes several more loads before I have to bin them. I just check the bullet is still tight when it comes out of the press.

I'm using a mix of brass: S&B, Winchester nickel and brass, PPU, Geco, Starline nickel, Federal, and a handful of other odd stuff I've picked up. Although it's a mix I load it in brand batches so all in a batch is the same. Strangely the Winchester nickel seems to be holding up the best, and I got most of it already used from a member at the club that stopped reloading it when powders disappeared. The Federal is also pretty good stuff, very few splits. The Geco is the worst but I can't be sure how much it had been used before I got it as I don't recall where it came from. The Starline I would say is second worst as I split a few out of every batch I shoot, but they have been used a few times now.

[bladeracer]

Blade, that's awesome, I'm also very sentimental.

You'd almost be at the point of giving each one of those cartridges a name.

I haven't tried to count how many times they've been loaded
I loaded nearly 2500 at the end of the year, but when we did our weekly shoots I reloaded them the same day. They tend to get put back on top of the stack so they've been fired a lot of times while the ones at the bottom of the stack are still virgin brass. I had a break from loading though and built up over 1000 pieces so I loaded them this week.

I've been umming and ahhing over buying more 9mm brass or buying factory and reload those. The cheapest thing for most people to do these days is buy factory 9mm and sell the brass I think, but I have a mountain of components already so it makes more sense to load them. But I did a deal today for 5000rds of 9mm ammo I'm collecting tomorrow. That'll be enough to get me through the year I think but I'll start loading batches as I burn through them.

[on_one_wheel]

Yeah, with the high price of new cases, and the other consumables it makes sense to buy ammunition shoot and reload them instead of buying new brass.

[Wapiti]

Aren't you concerned that the gas pressure will be fissuring into your chamber walls in lines?
The case is the seal that protects the chamber and makes everything go in the correct direction, away from your handsome face.

[bladeracer]

Aren't you concerned that the gas pressure will be fissuring into your chamber walls in lines?
The case is the seal that protects the chamber and makes everything go in the correct direction, away from your handsome face.

Not much, these are pistol cartridges, probably running below .22LR pressures. Haven't had any gas coming back at me in several hundred of these.