Testing 44 mag factory ammo speeds

[Wapiti]

Yeah I know, I see it all the time Rich.

I wasn't being disparaging by the way, about the 2.5x scope you mentioned. You do a lot of hunting and know your rifle so can make up for that sort of thing.
You use what you got in your hands at the time, and a good set up rifle comes up with the scope right centred where your eyeball is.

With my 30-30, and if it was a 44mag it'd be just the same, a 1-4x is more than enough for the furthest range you'd shoot that rifle type. Those that use a rifle out in the open then find themselves in a thick creek full of flood rubbish piled up as high as houses, amongst the pigs, know that once they've had a scope turn down to 1x, they know how there isn't anything better.
I remember Nick Harvey having an article about scope magnification once, LONG ago, and he was talking about a 1-4x being the perfect optic on a lever, and I thought, stupid old bugger, what does he know. Then years ago, I tried it and bugger me, I was wrong again.
So much so that the most successful, never fail scope I have for every application is a 1-8x on a 308 semi. Never fails, never is wrong magnification except when I screw up. I think, if 8x is not good enough then you are living in video game land.
I actually got another identical mount, and in it I put a 3-15 VX5HD on it, and turned it into a less useable rifle, just like that. Less FOV, 3x is too high for the scrub and 15x is way too far for my ability and that of the cartridges ballistics. So now it's getting dusty.

I mean, I'm no superman shooter, but look at the pic somewhere above with the 1-4x scope, with two different loads, from my shortarse 30-30 with the hideous barrel bands that instantly make a lever gun inaccurate. Apparently.
You know what wrecks those old designs? Crap manufacture, or stuffing around with the designs to make them "modern". If someone showed up here with a "tactical" Marlin lever gun, well I'm saying no more!

[Wapiti]

Actually, just got off the phone with a mate who's down the road, lived on a property all his life and anything he says, I'm all ears.
This is a reply to fester's post above.
He's just bought a Taipan 223, which surprised me. The 16" one, with the extra mag in the butt. Not something I saw him even looking sideways at before without laughing.
I remember him telling me about a pig we were all after once that had killed many dogs, going on rampages etc and we all met at this place to fan out and find the bastard. He had his 30-30, of all things. His 223 that he used for pro shooting was on the cruiser's dash. I said, not taking the Tikka mate. No f'ing way, he said. I want that. He looked at my short 7600 308 patrol with the 1-8 scope.
Anyway, we didn't get the pig. A Commodore wagon hit it at 100kmh and killed it between Mingoola and Bonshaw, writing the car off. It ripped the two complete front wheels and control arms out from under it. Shame.
So back to the 223 on river pigs. he just said he's a little disappointed, says he's going to have to slow down a bit, become way more precise, and pick his targets way better. Boilermakers of old know that sometimes, driving a big wedge to pull down 3" plate with a dog is best with a 28 pounder, not a 7.

[bigrich]

Yeah I know, I see it all the time Rich.

I wasn't being disparaging by the way, about the 2.5x scope you mentioned. You do a lot of hunting and know your rifle so can make up for that sort of thing.
You use what you got in your hands at the time, and a good set up rifle comes up with the scope right centred where your eyeball is.

With my 30-30, and if it was a 44mag it'd be just the same, a 1-4x is more than enough for the furthest range you'd shoot that rifle type. Those that use a rifle out in the open then find themselves in a thick creek full of flood rubbish piled up as high as houses, amongst the pigs, know that once they've had a scope turn down to 1x, they know how there isn't anything better.
I remember Nick Harvey having an article about scope magnification once, LONG ago, and he was talking about a 1-4x being the perfect optic on a lever, and I thought, stupid old bugger, what does he know. Then years ago, I tried it and bugger me, I was wrong again.
So much so that the most successful, never fail scope I have for every application is a 1-8x on a 308 semi. Never fails, never is wrong magnification except when I screw up. I think, if 8x is not good enough then you are living in video game land.
I actually got another identical mount, and in it I put a 3-15 VX5HD on it, and turned it into a less useable rifle, just like that. Less FOV, 3x is too high for the scrub and 15x is way too far for my ability and that of the cartridges ballistics. So now it's getting dusty.

I mean, I'm no superman shooter, but look at the pic somewhere above with the 1-4x scope, with two different loads, from my shortarse 30-30 with the hideous barrel bands that instantly make a lever gun inaccurate. Apparently.
You know what wrecks those old designs? Crap manufacture, or stuffing around with the designs to make them "modern". If someone showed up here with a "tactical" Marlin lever gun, well I'm saying no more!

hey mate, "tailoring" a gun to suit particular uses is a very essential consideration in my view , and if i had a 30-30, 44mag , 1-4 magnification or a reflex sight is exactly what i'd have on a lever . my 2.5-8x36 vx3 scope on my 308 tikka is a compromise between close in work (but not too close ) and shooting at pigs when i catch them at dawn out on open paddocks heading back to their daytime hideout . i've had a few rediculously accurate levers that had no bands, and know a fella who has converted his from bands to end caps and dovetailed magazine tube mounting, with improvements in accuracy . your short barreled 30 is possibly under less influence of bands due to it's shorter, more rigid , barrel . no argument you get great accuracy from it . i'm taking my 338-06 out on this trip with a 2-7 for boar , it'll do the job . i've got a 1.5-5x20 vx3 sitting in a cupboard for it , just haven't had time to sort it . it's been my experience that shooting bugholes off a bench with a super accurate "safe queen" is vastly different to shooting at a running pig , for which a 2MOA rifle with wide vision is the right tool for the job . best thing about levers is keeping the sight picture as your working the lever and chambering a round . due to less recoil and a slicker action, my 308 tikka is superior to my mauser 98 338-06 in some ways, but i'm thinking the 338 will be more fun and decisive with hitting power gotta have a variety of toys and enjoy them for what they are i reckon

[Fester]

My .223 came out over the last few days, great roo gun, but a bit long for a ute gun with a 24" tube.
I tend to open the door anyway, as I always get that wrong shoulder angle and head position when trying to shoot out the window.

Blokes say it's underrated, and use it for anything.
I, for one, know it has its limitations and don't care if a bloke has it as an only farm gun, or has shot dozens of small to middling pigs with success. It just ain't my choice to face a big old bore with.
Also my take Fallow meaties fine, but who is going to choose the little cal for a big buck, not this black duck.

[Wapiti]

My .223 came out over the last few days, great roo gun, but a bit long for a ute gun with a 24" tube.
Blokes say it's underrated, and use it for anything.
I, for one, know it has its limitations and don't care if a bloke has it as an only farm gun, or has shot dozens of small to middling pigs with success. It just ain't my choice to face a big old bore with.
Also my take Fallow meaties fine, but who is going to choose the little cal for a big buck, not this black duck.

People say that because it's cheap, and easy to shoot accurately cos it has a small powder charge that has bugger all recoil.
Rifles are easily made cheap to shoot it cos it's small, and easy to contain in heap aluminium firearms. Think Chimera etc.

AR style rifles in larger calibres like 308 are notoriously hard to keep together for the long haul. I know this as fact, no argument. Whereas the teeny 223, no dramas, and any small machine shop in the US can make rifles on this pattern and many cheap versions exist.
Fact is, larger versions have been tried and just cannot stand up to everyday use in 30-06 and 300WM.
Yet, old designs from the '20's like when John Garand started tooling around in the workshop last forever unless idiots try and handload to stupid pressures and with slow burning powders. Look at the M14's, they've been copied in the US and even been made in Asian countries using the TDP's and correct tooling, and are still around as commercial semi-autos, despite not being black, featherweight and scary from 100 feet.
As well, look at how Ruger tried to make a 308 version of the Mini-14 and failed, so opted for 7.62x39 instead.

Anyway, this thread is about the 44 magnum, and when I get the time I will chrony some of the ammo that Mick did in rifle-length barrels, in the 5-1/2" barrel of my Blackhawk, as a comparison. Stay tuned, those who are interested.
I can talk about the great results when shooting boars with a short barrel, but at what speed is this still such a great result?

[mickb]

Anyway, this thread is about the 44 magnum, and when I get the time I will chrony some of the ammo that Mick did in rifle-length barrels, in the 5-1/2" barrel of my Blackhawk, as a comparison. Stay tuned, those who are interested.
I can talk about the great results when shooting boars with a short barrel, but at what speed is this still such a great result?

All good fellas, its an interesting read and the forum can use the activity.

A lot is personal perception. The hardcast handgun hunters in the US, and 44 in handguns outnumber carbine users, consider any use of expanding bullets a potential fail. Then there is the bloke who wants a picture perfect mushroom and 98% weight retention. Then blokes like me who dont care what the bullet looks like as long as the game falls over fast.

Consider the real extreme. the 444 marlin, another 400-500fps faster than 44 carbine. almost doubling handgun speeds. While I wouldnt advocate light bullets on big game, the 444 guys still love their gun on medium stuff. 44 carbine is mid ground by comparison.