Difference between gamekings and matchkings for targets?

[Kelsey Cooter]

Going to head to a range with a mate for my 1st go at 500m fly. Haven't done anything like it before so I'm wondering will my 150gr gamekings be good for 500m? I've got the GK's shooting around 15mm at 100m.

Heading this weekend so dont have time to find a good load with match projectiles.

I know I can get 150gr matchkings in town, would they be a good chance of liking the same load as the gamekings? I realise the answer is probably no but i thought I'd ask anyway

[SCJ429]

Totally different bullet design. You can get GK to shoot well but the SMK is a dedicated match projectile. Best to do a ladder test when you get them. What caliber? 7mm?

[Kelsey Cooter]

Totally different bullet design. You can get GK to shoot well but the SMK is a dedicated match projectile. Best to do a ladder test when you get them. What caliber? 7mm?

Cheers mate I figured that was the case. Nah 308

[SCJ429]

Palma shooter use a 155 grain bullet in a 308 at longer distances and do OK. You may find 180 works better at 500 as they will be less effected by the wind. 500 is a long way when you are trying to stick five rounds in the same spot. You find a 1/2 inch group at 100 turns into a two foot mess at 500 if you have some switchy wind. What scope are you using?

[Kelsey Cooter]

A leupold mark ar 6-18x40

[SCJ429]

Can you see your bullet holes are 500? If not you need someone to spot for you. The fly is great fun but if you cannot see your bullet holes it is disappointing when you target comes back and you don't have a single scoring shot. I hope you don't have much mirage, let us know how you do.

[duncan61]

The meplat on Matchkings is tiny to fly better and I am sure they are different ogive from gamekings.I use 100 gamekings in my 7mm for hunting and 168 Matchkings for target.The Match kings clover leaf at 100m.Same load for weight will work fine in your .308

[in2anity]

Palma shooter use a 155 grain bullet in a 308 at longer distances and do OK. You may find 180 works better at 500 as they will be less effected by the wind. 500 is a long way when you are trying to stick five rounds in the same spot. You find a 1/2 inch group at 100 turns into a two foot mess at 500 if you have some switchy wind. What scope are you using?

In the right hands the 155s can be made to shoot exceptionally well out to 1000, nevertheless I have seen 178s beat 155s under awful conditions. Like-for-like gear there’s really not much in it however...

[duncan61]

First time at it enjoy the day then get tuned up

[SCJ429]

t.The Match kings clover leaf at 100m.Same load for weight will work fine in your .308

Would you usually work up to a load Duncan or do you just swap out the new type of projectile?

I find different projectiles even if they weigh the same create very different pressure and speed.

[SCJ429]

Palma shooter use a 155 grain bullet in a 308 at longer distances and do OK. You may find 180 works better at 500 as they will be less effected by the wind. 500 is a long way when you are trying to stick five rounds in the same spot. You find a 1/2 inch group at 100 turns into a two foot mess at 500 if you have some switchy wind. What scope are you using?

In the right hands the 155s can be made to shoot exceptionally well out to 1000, nevertheless I have seen 178s beat 155s under awful conditions. Like-for-like gear there’s really not much in it however...

I have seen some excellent results from 308 shooters at mid to longer range using 155 but ideally and if the rules permitted they would use a heavier projectile. What would you use to shoot at 500 in a score match?

[duncan61]

Like most things in life the more I learn the more I realise I know nothing.I have never done this loading by small increments and finding the optimum load.I have gone off the ADI Data and used the middle load.For the 7mm Rem Mag I use 64gn 2213sc for 168 Matchking and they go great.There is so many variables when target shooting.I have met plenty of people who weigh primers and brass etc and it works for them but a gusting wind day will blow it all out.Having a S/S 26 inch fluted barrel seems to help.I use the 7mm from 500-1000 but that is mainly yards not metres Coolilup was 900 Metres and I still had a fair amount of up clicks on the scope which is good.My .222 hits the ground on max elevation at 350 Metres.I intend to load 52gn Matchkings for it so I can do the 100 and 200 at the hill range.I have some target bullets for the 7mm which I will be loading soon.Other people on this forum will give better advice on target shooting

[in2anity]

I have seen some excellent results from 308 shooters at mid to longer range using 155 but ideally and if the rules permitted they would use a heavier projectile. What would you use to shoot at 500 in a score match?

Provided the 155s and 178s mechanically shot exactly the same out of a given rifle, yes of course I’d have to choose the 178s. But even then, I know a few very experienced palma guys who could shoot your pants off even with their 155s (when you have the theoretical advantage of the heavier pill). In saying that, I’m not coming from an F-class perspective, more from fullbore - it might be a bit more significant in an F-class setting. My point is, IMO the performance gains are pretty darned small especially within the factory rifle realm.

[sungazer]

To gain the advantage of the heavier projectile say 178 over a 155 you pretty much have to shoot them at the same MV. A mate and I who both shoot F class myself 155 in comp and he has changed over to FTR which allows the heavier projectiles have done extensive testing and he has done extensive documentation, as he comes from that sort of background. For example we shoot the 155s at about 3010 fps the 185 juggers have to be shot at 2950 to have about a 15% advantage from memory. A 200grn needs to be pushed at above 2850 fps to get a worthwhile advantage. This can be done in the really heavy target actions but it really knocks the shooter around and the cases you may only get the one load from a Lapua Palma brass as apposed to over 10 from the 155 at 3000fps. The only reason it can be done in the target actions is the really tight tolerances and really strong actions the primers flatten out a bit but the case head opens up and the primers become too lose to use.

[Gamerancher]

I've shot both "Gamekings" and "Matchkings" at 500m Fly and silhouette. If you've got a load that works for you, use it.
Just go and shoot with the load you know and trust. If you reckon you can shoot 15mm groups @ 100m with it, the load should hold up at 500m.
However, if 15mm is your best, one off group, ( be honest with yourself ), be prepared to receive a reality check. It don't take much to throw a shot @ 500m. You will definitely need a good spotting scope, 'cause you are not going to see your shots with that rifle scope.
The fly shoot is a good way to find out just what you and your gear are capable of.
Go and have a crack and remember rule no. 10,
Rule 10 on fly target states ANY COMPETITOR FOUND NOT ENJOYING THEMSELVES WILL BE DISQUALIFIED.

[TassieTiger]

Curious - does anyone turn up and just shoot with a hunting / sporter rifle and do any good at these fly events ? Id imagine consistency wouldn't be there?...Reason I ask is I know a couple of older guys, who almost exclusively live bush, who'd never entertain entering in a competition but, they can shoot with so much accuracy from their very basic rifles it just blows me away - match boxes at 400m type accuracy (and centered !) from light weight 22-250's and similar...does anyone come from left of field, with gear that just does not look appropriate and leave people sitting there wondering - how ? The guys Im referring too - do reload and they are gun nuts, but certainly wouldn't be called long range target shooters...they actually inspire me to do better with less...

[in2anity]

Curious - does anyone turn up and just shoot with a hunting / sporter rifle and do any good at these fly events ? Id imagine consistency wouldn't be there?...Reason I ask is I know a couple of older guys, who almost exclusively live bush, who'd never entertain entering in a competition but, they can shoot with so much accuracy from their very basic rifles it just blows me away - match boxes at 400m type accuracy (and centered !) from light weight 22-250's and similar...does anyone come from left of field, with gear that just does not look appropriate and leave people sitting there wondering - how ? The guys Im referring too - do reload and they are gun nuts, but certainly wouldn't be called long range target shooters...they actually inspire me to do better with less...

Yeah mate invitational fly shoots are quite common. The 22lr one at 200m is an absolute hoot Also if you're looking to give it a try there are sometimes different weight classes which helps level the field. And yes it is immensely satisfying seeing a cheap (but tuned) rig beat some space gun - "ye who reads the wind wins"

[TassieTiger]

It does sound like a lot of fun.
A .22 at 200m? = akin to dropping tiny artillery onto target lol

[in2anity]

It does sound like a lot of fun.
A .22 at 200m? = akin to dropping tiny artillery onto target lol

lol you certainly do need a lot of elevation

[Kelsey Cooter]

Well I've got to say my 1st go at fly was a bloody heap of fun. They had had a good bit of rain in mackay so we had to go back to 300 instead of 500m as a gully prevents them from getting to 500 when its wet. Made for a bloody enjoyable morning though. Was blowing its ass off so thats the 1st time I've shot targets in wind so I enjoyed learning and the challenge. This was the best of my 3 targets

[duncan61]

did you make some Matchkings or went with the Gamekings

[Kelsey Cooter]

did you make some Matchkings or went with the Gamekings

Went with the gamekings, 300m was great as I could see the holes through my scope

[SCJ429]

Well done, it is hard work when the wind is moving around. The Federal Cup is in Canberra next weekend if you want another go. Best to get a load developed with SMK, they are a very forgiving bullet.

[Kelsey Cooter]

Well done, it is hard work when the wind is moving around. The Federal Cup is in Canberra next weekend if you want another go. Best to get a load developed with SMK, they are a very forgiving bullet.

We actaully slipped into town afterwards and bought some hornady 168 hpbt match as they were alot nicer to the wallet then the sierras. So will have a play with them next

[duncan61]

I am going to spend the afternoon prepping 7mm cases and loading 168 for the range

[duncan61]

IMG_0222.JPG (834.87 KiB) Viewed 6441 times

The topic is about bullets so check this left to right the 168 Berger VLD, 100 sierra game king and 168 Matchking.the ogive on the VLD is considerably longer than the Matchking.will test them soon

[Kelsey Cooter]

IMG_0222.JPG

The topic is about bullets so check this left to right the 168 Berger VLD, 100 sierra game king and 168 Matchking.the ogive on the VLD is considerably longer than the Matchking.will test them soon

The shape of the vld looks kind of odd when you compare it to the other 2

[Apollo]

Give some Berger VLD Target a go. When you get them on song at 500m Fly you might get something that looks like this and win a "Screamer Patch"..

[SCJ429]

No screamer patches awarded last weekend, difficult conditions for everyone.

[in2anity]

Give some Berger VLD Target a go. When you get them on song at 500m Fly you might get something that looks like this and win a "Screamer Patch"..

I don’t care what the circumstances, that’s some bloody good shooting, I’m impressed