Is Australia heading for an AMMO/Reloading shortage?

[Tubs]

Heard today that a few guys at the pistol club are buying up 12GA shotshell in large quantities and then spending time cutting them open to extract the powder.

12GA will contain just over 20gn of fast powder and budget shells are about $95 for a slab of 250.
For calculation example, each three slabs (750 shotshell) will yield just over 15,000gn or 1Kg of fast powder for $285.
More than retail pricing but way cheaper than some current online pricing from gougers.

As a rough calculation, that's about 2c per grain of powder so if the 9mm load is around 4 grains that's 8c per round. Add in 10c per primer (if you bought some recently) and 15c per pill, that's 33c per round so still cheaper than the cheapest factory 9mm which is around 40c per round for PPU from Cleavers (more elsewhere)

I suggested this idea a couple years ago, possibly even in this thread

It was recently ye mate. If I didnt have enough TB to get me by Id be buying a slab of shotty for sure.

[rc42]

I heard today that a shipment of some 2 million CCI small pistol primers is due through Nioa in the coming weeks, half are allocated to Cleavers and every one has already been bought on back order.

I suspect that this will be the case for all imported pistol powder and primers for the next few years, I've also heard dire predictions, from people with contacts in the industry, of five years before dealer shelves are re-stocked.

[AS30N]

I heard today that a shipment of some 2 million CCI small pistol primers is due through Nioa in the coming weeks, half are allocated to Cleavers and every one has already been bought on back order.

I suspect that this will be the case for all imported pistol powder and primers for the next few years, I've also heard dire predictions, from people with contacts in the industry, of five years before dealer shelves are re-stocked.

That's good new, sort of, but I suspect it will be sold within two weeks if they are anything under $120/1000, I belong to a small club with 70 members, there are about 20 of us who shoot weekly. We would possibly get 2 x 5000 slabs each if under $120/1000, that's 200k gone, from a single pistol club.

As for powder, the guys at WA were getting some unknown powder which is believed to be repackaged St Marks surplus (US military contract manufacturer), black bottle with doggy green stickers. But I am yet to see any in the eastern states.

I am getting an air pistol to keep my weekly practice up.....

[Baitlayer]

Evening all. Have been giving much thought of late about getting into reloading. (22-250; 6.5 CM;223 ).My concern is that, given the reported difficulty of accessing components discussed above, is this a bad time to be to be considering this or do the benefits still outweigh the problems? I have no equipment at present so will be starting completely from scratch. Mainly shooting paper at the moment.

[dnedative]

Wouldn't bother reloading 223 Rem;
22-250 yes
6.5CM yes

You can get 2209 and primers, although the primers are not cheap. Issue will be getting .264 bullets; If you can get bullets its still cheaper than any factory ammunition. Its a really bad time to get into pistols or reloading at the moment, everyone is on borrowed time and components to some extent.

[bladeracer]

Evening all. Have been giving much thought of late about getting into reloading. (22-250; 6.5 CM;223 ).My concern is that, given the reported difficulty of accessing components discussed above, is this a bad time to be to be considering this or do the benefits still outweigh the problems? I have no equipment at present so will be starting completely from scratch. Mainly shooting paper at the moment.

Probably no more difficult than buying the ammo I would think.
Best to discuss with your dealer as that's where you'll be getting your primers and powders.
Primers are the biggest issue, if you can grab a couple thousand primers I would say go for it.
There shouldn't be any issue getting AR2206H or AR2208 for those.

As dnedative mentioned, .264" bullets are pretty scarce just now, although Projectile Warehouse did have good stock of expensive Outer Edge bullets in .264" last month. Not much else around though. Haven't noticed a shortage of .224" bullets.

For me the benefits are well worth it.
If you have the primers you can load for whatever you feel like shooting at the time. Be aware that some cartridges (like 6.5CM) offer brass in small primer and large primer - get the right ones for the primers you have.

[dnedative]

Probably looking at $1.30-$1.60 to reload 6.5CM if your buying at today's prices if you have the brass.
Given you cant really buy any good ammunition for under $2.50 a round it still makes economic sense.

[Baitlayer]

Thanks guys.I'm sure you have heard these queries many ties before so I appreciate the advice, Got plenty of Hornady 6.5 brass in the shed, (Also 22-250) Will talk to my LGS next time I'm down in town. As you say, will be relying on him heavily for supply and advice to get started. I'm over in the west at the moment. Might have a nose around the stores hereabouts and see if I can track down some .264. If not successful ,might just have to start with the other two and go from there.
Blade, are Hornady cases large or small primer. Is there any advantage in using one over the other. I am guessing by the sound of it, it will come down which ever I can get my hands on.. Any advise on primers of choice for 22-250 and 223. What should I be looking for? Thanks in advance'

[wanneroo]

Reloading still makes economic sense even in these times. It gets you toward some sort of self sufficiency over time by being able to reuse your brass plus you can tailor loads to your liking.

Good to hear there is a load of CCI small pistol primers on the way. They are on shelves here in the USA but for triple the price they were before covid.

[bladeracer]

Blade, are Hornady cases large or small primer. Is there any advantage in using one over the other. I am guessing by the sound of it, it will come down which ever I can get my hands on.. Any advise on primers of choice for 22-250 and 223. What should I be looking for? Thanks in advance'

I would expect Hornady to be LR but they may offer both sizes, or they may have run both sizes in the past, you need to confirm what size yours are.

I would just use whatever primers you can find for now, I personally prefer the Remington 7-1/2 and 9-1/2M for my rifles but I also have a lot of Winchester, Federal and S&B for backup.

[Baitlayer]

Thanks , Blade. Will start shopping about and grab stuff as it becomes available.
Wanneroo for me ,its not so much about the cost savings (although they are nice) i just enjoy doing things myself'. I build my own fishing rods, tie flies. I make knives and build my own equipment like my 2x72 grinder ,gas forge as well as workshop equipment, targets rests etc. To me, reloading would be an extension of this. There is something very satisfying about using something you have built from scratch..

[Oldbloke]

" i just enjoy doing things myself'."

That being the case, look here.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=13453

[bladeracer]

Thanks , Blade. Will start shopping about and grab stuff as it becomes available.
Wanneroo for me ,its not so much about the cost savings (although they are nice) i just enjoy doing things myself'. I build my own fishing rods, tie flies. I make knives and build my own equipment like my 2x72 grinder ,gas forge as well as workshop equipment, targets rests etc. To me, reloading would be an extension of this. There is something very satisfying about using something you have built from scratch..

On the issue of .264" bullets, and enjoying doing things yourself, you could cast and powdercoat your own bullets as well.

[gunnnie]

Wouldn't be surprised if the glubbermunt & police are pushing to shut down firearm ownership in Australia by making it impossible to reload.
Not to mention the whole cry about anti-terrorism and stopping the 'bad guys' from making devices by using available powder etc.
Nothin is simple anymore and certainly not what it all seems!
This is just another kick in the nuts for LAFO's!

[bladeracer]

Wouldn't be surprised if the glubbermunt & police are pushing to shut down firearm ownership in Australia by making it impossible to reload.
Not to mention the whole cry about anti-terrorism and stopping the 'bad guys' from making devices by using available powder etc.
Nothin is simple anymore and certainly not what it all seems!
This is just another kick in the nuts for LAFO's!

While you can certainly use smokeless powders to make explosives they really need to crack down on distribution of petrol first as that is used more often to commit crimes than powders are, and you don't even need a licence or a genuine reason or join an approved petrol users club to buy the stuff. And powders can only be used in very specific crimes that are incredibly rare, unlike petrol which is used in virtually all crimes. A woman murdered her children by setting fire to their car two weeks ago. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-16/woman-and-two-young-children-found-dead-in-burnt-vehicle/13797988

[Bill]

I know Hornady had a shipment of odds bits come in this week, plenty of 224 55gr Vmax's on the shelf, not much else apart from from 158gr XTP's.

Been told some popular Hornady projectile lines are sold out til late 2023 now .

[on_one_wheel]

Wouldn't be surprised if the glubbermunt & police are pushing to shut down firearm ownership in Australia by making it impossible to reload.
Not to mention the whole cry about anti-terrorism and stopping the 'bad guys' from making devices by using available powder etc.
Nothin is simple anymore and certainly not what it all seems!
This is just another kick in the nuts for LAFO's!

I doubt that's the case but I can understand why people would think like that.

It's simply a supply and demand issue made worse than normal by covid related supply chain issues, military build up and panic buying. It's a perfect storm.

[Baitlayer]

OB, read that post and is exactly the sort of thing I enjoy. That very similar torch rolling around the back of my young blokes 4x4 is now squirrelled away for when I get home to my shed.

[dnedative]

Wouldn't be surprised if the glubbermunt & police are pushing to shut down firearm ownership in Australia by making it impossible to reload.
Not to mention the whole cry about anti-terrorism and stopping the 'bad guys' from making devices by using available powder etc.
Nothin is simple anymore and certainly not what it all seems!
This is just another kick in the nuts for LAFO's!

Zero legislative controls on buying concentrated hydrogen peroxide, sulfuric acid or nitric acid, glassware, heating mantles etc
If its not ammonium nitrate or on the poisons list its generally free to purchase relaying on the supplier to adhere to a code of conduct or smell a rat when they see one....

[Marlin44]

I heard today that a shipment of some 2 million CCI small pistol primers is due through Nioa in the coming weeks, half are allocated to Cleavers and every one has already been bought on back order..

Don't believe what you hear. There are no CCI small pistol in this shipment.

[Marlin44]

Wouldn't be surprised if the glubbermunt & police are pushing to shut down firearm ownership in Australia by making it impossible to reload.
Not to mention the whole cry about anti-terrorism and stopping the 'bad guys' from making devices by using available powder etc.
Nothin is simple anymore and certainly not what it all seems!
This is just another kick in the nuts for LAFO's!

I doubt that's the case but I can understand why people would think like that.

It's simply a supply and demand issue made worse than normal by covid related supply chain issues, military build up and panic buying. It's a perfect storm.

Spot on. This is a flyer that Hornady was handing out at SHOT in January.

IMG_0119(1).jpg (707.03 KiB) Viewed 5251 times

[rc42]

The messages do get changed along the chains of 'chinese whipsers'.
Thinking about it, 2 million primers is only about one or two pallets, quite a small shipment that won't go very far if/when it does turn up.

Cleavers certainly have BR4 small rifle primers in stock right now but at $179 per 1000 or $805 for 5000 they should last for a while. BR4s have always been expensive but I suspect that when standard primers do return they will be priced at that level or even higher for a long time. There are already price gougers asking $200 for a brick of standard small pistol primers.

For those unaware, with CCI their small rifle primers and small pistol magnum primers are effectively the same thing, dimensions, cup thickness, primer compound and amount are exactly the same. Cup thickness is the main difference between their small primers, standard small pistol are about 0.017", small rifle/small pistol magnum are about 0.020" and small rifle magnum are around 0.025". It take quite a hit to set off the small rifle magnum primers but the other types should be usable in all pistols with factory springs.

[gunnnie]

Wouldn't be surprised if the glubbermunt & police are pushing to shut down firearm ownership in Australia by making it impossible to reload.
Not to mention the whole cry about anti-terrorism and stopping the 'bad guys' from making devices by using available powder etc.
Nothin is simple anymore and certainly not what it all seems!
This is just another kick in the nuts for LAFO's!

While you can certainly use smokeless powders to make explosives they really need to crack down on distribution of petrol first as that is used more often to commit crimes than powders are, and you don't even need a licence or a genuine reason or join an approved petrol users club to buy the stuff. And powders can only be used in very specific crimes that are incredibly rare, unlike petrol which is used in virtually all crimes. A woman murdered her children by setting fire to their car two weeks ago. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-16/woman-and-two-young-children-found-dead-in-burnt-vehicle/13797988

Agree that petrol is most likely the primary 'agent' used in the vast majority of incidents. But I would hesitate to say that crimes using powder or other HME/UBE/HMI's is incredibly rare! There is a lot happening around the place that does not make it anywhere near MSM. Has been the case for quite some time, all in the name of preventing mass hysteria!

[gunnnie]

Wouldn't be surprised if the glubbermunt & police are pushing to shut down firearm ownership in Australia by making it impossible to reload.
Not to mention the whole cry about anti-terrorism and stopping the 'bad guys' from making devices by using available powder etc.
Nothin is simple anymore and certainly not what it all seems!
This is just another kick in the nuts for LAFO's!

I doubt that's the case but I can understand why people would think like that.

It's simply a supply and demand issue made worse than normal by covid related supply chain issues, military build up and panic buying. It's a perfect storm.

Well, for all our sake's I hope that your view on this is correct! But based on the behaviour of the glubbermunt this past 2+yrs and what has come to light in recent times, I would trust the political mainstream as far as I could throw them!
Start looking closer at all the changes that have come in the past few years. Ask what the reason behind the change is and then question the reality behind it. The 'looks like' rule in NSW, the push in WA re reloading and possession of diagrams, schematics, just to point out 2 examples. On the surface seemingly benign and sold to the pandering masses as yet more steps in ensuring public safety. But the reality is far from the reasoning provided.

Hey, I hope I'm wrong, but myself and many, many others are seeing otherwise.

[bladeracer]

Well, for all our sake's I hope that your view on this is correct! But based on the behaviour of the glubbermunt this past 2+yrs and what has come to light in recent times, I would trust the political mainstream as far as I could throw them!
Start looking closer at all the changes that have come in the past few years. Ask what the reason behind the change is and then question the reality behind it. The 'looks like' rule in NSW, the push in WA re reloading and possession of diagrams, schematics, just to point out 2 examples. On the surface seemingly benign and sold to the pandering masses as yet more steps in ensuring public safety. But the reality is far from the reasoning provided.

Hey, I hope I'm wrong, but myself and many, many others are seeing otherwise.

The "reason" behind all our firearm laws is the UN Charter on totally disarming the civilian population of all member countries.

[on_one_wheel]

Well, for all our sake's I hope that your view on this is correct! But based on the behaviour of the glubbermunt this past 2+yrs and what has come to light in recent times, I would trust the political mainstream as far as I could throw them!
Start looking closer at all the changes that have come in the past few years. Ask what the reason behind the change is and then question the reality behind it. The 'looks like' rule in NSW, the push in WA re reloading and possession of diagrams, schematics, just to point out 2 examples. On the surface seemingly benign and sold to the pandering masses as yet more steps in ensuring public safety. But the reality is far from the reasoning provided.

Hey, I hope I'm wrong, but myself and many, many others are seeing otherwise.

The "reason" behind all our firearm laws is the UN Charter on totally disarming the civilian population of all member countries.

Except for the government's.... they need guns to protect us

[Bill]

Wouldn't bother reloading 223 Rem;
22-250 yes
6.5CM yes

You can get 2209 and primers, although the primers are not cheap. Issue will be getting .264 bullets; If you can get bullets its still cheaper than any factory ammunition. Its a really bad time to get into pistols or reloading at the moment, everyone is on borrowed time and components to some extent.

I wouldnt reload 22-250 ammo, Box 50 Tikka 22-250 is around $75-80 and shoots sub MOA in cheap rifles

Creedmoor, you can get very accurate Match ammo but very expensive some some savings to be made if you re shooting regularly

[on_one_wheel]

Wouldn't bother reloading 223 Rem;
22-250 yes
6.5CM yes

You can get 2209 and primers, although the primers are not cheap. Issue will be getting .264 bullets; If you can get bullets its still cheaper than any factory ammunition. Its a really bad time to get into pistols or reloading at the moment, everyone is on borrowed time and components to some extent.

I wouldnt reload 22-250 ammo, Box 50 Tikka 22-250 is around $75-80 and shoots sub MOA in cheap rifles

Creedmoor, you can get very accurate Match ammo but very expensive some some savings to be made if you re shooting regularly

I couldn't bring myself to pay $1.50 per round for anything (other than big rounds like 300WM)
sound way too expensive in my book.

[bladeracer]

I wouldnt reload 22-250 ammo, Box 50 Tikka 22-250 is around $75-80 and shoots sub MOA in cheap rifles

Creedmoor, you can get very accurate Match ammo but very expensive some some savings to be made if you re shooting regularly

I couldn't bring myself to pay $1.50 per round for anything (other than big rounds like 300WM)
sound way too expensive in my book.

You could sell the brass but that's still expensive shooting.

[Tubs]

Well, for all our sake's I hope that your view on this is correct! But based on the behaviour of the glubbermunt this past 2+yrs and what has come to light in recent times, I would trust the political mainstream as far as I could throw them!
Start looking closer at all the changes that have come in the past few years. Ask what the reason behind the change is and then question the reality behind it. The 'looks like' rule in NSW, the push in WA re reloading and possession of diagrams, schematics, just to point out 2 examples. On the surface seemingly benign and sold to the pandering masses as yet more steps in ensuring public safety. But the reality is far from the reasoning provided.

Hey, I hope I'm wrong, but myself and many, many others are seeing otherwise.

The "reason" behind all our firearm laws is the UN Charter on totally disarming the civilian population of all member countries.

Except if you are invaded in which case they are happy for you to die with your new AK