Anyone reload 8x57?

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Anyone reload 8x57?

Post by Tyler89797 » 03 Jun 2018, 8:49 pm

Hey guys, just wondering if anyone has experience loading 8x57. If so what loads are you running and sort of accuracy do you come to expect. I'm asking because I recently went out and tested my first ever handloads through my m1904/39 Vergueiro and got some very different results between the two loads I tested and factory ammo. I only loaded up one powder weight for each load. How much change in accuracy can I expect by fine tuning charge and seating depth? Is there any point in experimenting with the Speer 170gr if the results for the Hornady 150gr's are dramatically better at starting loads?

The first group I shot was with 196gr Sellier and Bellot SPCE wasn't all that great but still fine for my purposes.
196gr SB.jpg
196gr SB.jpg (953.4 KiB) Viewed 2330 times

Handload number 1 was even worse at about 5" at 100
170gr speer.jpg
170gr speer.jpg (977.78 KiB) Viewed 2330 times

Handload number 2 was easily the best at about 1.5"
150gr hornady.jpg
150gr hornady.jpg (947.39 KiB) Viewed 2330 times
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Re: Anyone reload 8x57?

Post by bladeracer » 03 Jun 2018, 9:30 pm

Tyler89797 wrote:Hey guys, just wondering if anyone has experience loading 8x57. If so what loads are you running and sort of accuracy do you come to expect. I'm asking because I recently went out and tested my first ever handloads through my m1904/39 Vergueiro and got some very different results between the two loads I tested and factory ammo. I only loaded up one powder weight for each load. How much change in accuracy can I expect by fine tuning charge and seating depth? Is there any point in experimenting with the Speer 170gr if the results for the Hornady 150gr's are dramatically better at starting loads?

The first group I shot was with 196gr Sellier and Bellot SPCE wasn't all that great but still fine for my purposes.
Handload number 1 was even worse at about 5" at 100

Handload number 2 was easily the best at about 1.5"


Yep, I have two M1904/39's and a Turk.
My long-range load has been the Nosler 180gn BT on 40gn of AR2206H at about 2150fps.
My daily load is a 180gn Lee cast on 10gn of Trailboss at about 1120fps.
I've also tried the Hornady 196gn BTHP but haven't settled on a load yet.
I'm also working up the 170gn SST, and the Speer 150gn SP.
I also have some .321" FTX's I'm interested in trying, though I don't really expect them to work.

I haven't tried any factory ammo or any particularly hot loads.
I like to put a scout scope on for load development to leave my eyesight out of it.
My first /39 I've shot 5rd groups around 1MoA scoped off the bench, with the Nosler and the cast bullet.
Over open sights 2MoA is more the norm at 100m.
My second /39 I only got last week and have only put a few dozen cast rounds through it so far, with no real accuracy testing, just for giggles.
I haven't done any load development in the Turk yet but I'm getting 5rd groups around 65mm at 50m off the bench with cast loads. I haven't slugged the bore or cast the chamber yet so it might just be that it needs a larger diameter bullet.

I think load development is a big part of accuracy in the milsurps, except perhaps the M96/M38 - they seem to shoot everything extremely well.

I think your "handload 2" is excellent indeed.
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Re: Anyone reload 8x57?

Post by No1Mk3 » 04 Jun 2018, 5:40 am

G'day Tyler89797,
For German, Czech, Hungarian, Yugo & Portuguese I load 198g FMJ with either 51.6g of 2209 or 46.0 of 2208. For the Turks I load 150g Speer SP with 50.0g of 2208. If you want to chase accuracy in an old battle rifle you really need to ladder test, just like any other target rifle, as they can shoot quite well when the ammo is tuned to that particular rifle, Cheers.
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Re: Anyone reload 8x57?

Post by straightshooter » 04 Jun 2018, 9:12 am

Tyler89797 wrote:How much change in accuracy can I expect by fine tuning charge and seating depth?

With an old ex-military rifle it depends on if you still believe in the tooth fairy.
Best to stick to military specification projectile, COL and velocities if possible.

Tyler89797 wrote:Is there any point in experimenting with the Speer 170gr if the results for the Hornady 150gr's are dramatically better at starting loads?

Other than satisfying your curiosity probably no.
If the 150 grain works acceptably for you then all well and good.
Sometimes you can be surprised at how reduced recoil can be a benefit to overall accuracy with a slippery ill fitting ex-military rifle.
I have a number of 8x57 rifles but with barrels ranging from not too good to rotten so I stick with military specification COL and velocities and just accept the mediocre accuracy delivered.
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Re: Anyone reload 8x57?

Post by bladeracer » 04 Jun 2018, 11:22 am

straightshooter wrote:Best to stick to military specification projectile, COL and velocities if possible.


Best in what regard? You don't believe it's possible to improve the accuracy over milsurp ammo? Is the milsurp ammo suitable for hunting?
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Re: Anyone reload 8x57?

Post by straightshooter » 06 Jun 2018, 8:35 am

bladeracer wrote:
straightshooter wrote:Best to stick to military specification projectile, COL and velocities if possible.


Best in what regard? You don't believe it's possible to improve the accuracy over milsurp ammo? Is the milsurp ammo suitable for hunting?


How did you arrive at "milsurp" from my post.
By "misurp" I presume you mean the ex military ammunition that has found it's way onto the consumer market for one reason or another.
In the vast majority of cases this ammunition has been 'condemned' by the relevant military for one or more developing defects.
So of course I believe you can improve over "milsurp" ammunition by using quality components loaded to military specification as stated.
That way the rifle will be safe to use, feed correctly and the sight range settings will have some prospect of being accurate.
If by "improve the accuracy" you mean that you might stumble across a super accurate load then I think that is unlikely.
Without even considering the condition of the barrel, the Vergueiro has a split rear bridge which makes scope mounting difficult and thus unlikely, and fairly coarse iron sights which make aiming precision overwhelm any other sources of minor inaccuracy.
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Re: Anyone reload 8x57?

Post by bladeracer » 06 Jun 2018, 4:50 pm

straightshooter wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
straightshooter wrote:Best to stick to military specification projectile, COL and velocities if possible.


Best in what regard? You don't believe it's possible to improve the accuracy over milsurp ammo? Is the milsurp ammo suitable for hunting?


How did you arrive at "milsurp" from my post.
By "misurp" I presume you mean the ex military ammunition that has found it's way onto the consumer market for one reason or another.
In the vast majority of cases this ammunition has been 'condemned' by the relevant military for one or more developing defects.
So of course I believe you can improve over "milsurp" ammunition by using quality components loaded to military specification as stated.
That way the rifle will be safe to use, feed correctly and the sight range settings will have some prospect of being accurate.
If by "improve the accuracy" you mean that you might stumble across a super accurate load then I think that is unlikely.
Without even considering the condition of the barrel, the Vergueiro has a split rear bridge which makes scope mounting difficult and thus unlikely, and fairly coarse iron sights which make aiming precision overwhelm any other sources of minor inaccuracy.


Sorry, poor word choice. I meant "mil spec" ammo. Basically, replicating military loads. I don't see any value in doing that at all. Work up an accurate load with a good bullet and you should be able to improve accuracy significantly.
Why would the sight settings have any influence over your choice of load? All that matters is that you know what elevation the bullet drops at for each sight setting, the same as you would using military ammo. Do you believe wars were always fought at 100yd intervals to suit the sights they used?

Have you heard of scout scopes?
310820161526.jpg
310820161526.jpg (1.98 MiB) Viewed 2218 times


And I find the irons on the mausers to work just fine, on par with the apertures of the '03-A3 and No.4 for accuracy. Although the reduced apertures I have installed on both of those rifles improves them significantly.
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Re: Anyone reload 8x57?

Post by straightshooter » 09 Jun 2018, 8:12 am

bladeracer wrote:Is the milsurp (sic) ammo suitable for hunting?


Well if you use bullets with a suitable construction for the intended game - yes.

bladeracer wrote:Sorry, poor word choice. I meant "mil spec" ammo. Basically, replicating military loads. I don't see any value in doing that at all. Work up an accurate load with a good bullet and you should be able to improve accuracy significantly.


What do you mean by 'accurate'?
In my opinion accuracy is when your sight setting coincides with the centroid of a group fired at any particular range. A necessary aspect of the group is that it contains a sufficient number of shots to be truly representative of that particular ammunition loading combination.

Can you quantify 'significantly'?

bladeracer wrote:Why would the sight settings have any influence over your choice of load?

Duh! So the sight setting coincides with the group at any particular range.

bladeracer wrote: All that matters is that you know what elevation the bullet drops at for each sight setting, the same as you would using military ammo. Do you believe wars were always fought at 100yd intervals to suit the sights they used?

No, but by the same token do you believe wars were fought with riflemen walking around with memorised drop tables for their individual sight setting?

bladeracer wrote:Have you heard of scout scopes?

As it turns out yes I even own a couple. I think though the original poster was talking about military sights.

bladeracer wrote:And I find the irons on the mausers to work just fine, on par with the apertures of the '03-A3 and No.4 for accuracy. Although the reduced apertures I have installed on both of those rifles improves them significantly.

So why bother with scout scopes?

My Saturday morning opinionated rant, not enough time on weekdays. Now off to do some shooting.
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