Reloading .17HMR for 1000yd shooting

[bladeracer]

Very interesting post on FB I just saw.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/Reloading101/permalink/2180066548894270/

He's reloading .17HMR in an AR15 trying to shoot 1000yds with it.
If anybody is FB-disabled I'll screenshot and post the thread in here.

[in2anity]

Very interesting post on FB I just saw.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/Reloading101/permalink/2180066548894270/

He's reloading .17HMR in an AR15 trying to shoot 1000yds with it.
If anybody is FB-disabled I'll screenshot and post the thread in here.

Has to be a piss-take doesn’t it?

[No1_49er]

Very interesting post on FB I just saw.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/Reloading101/permalink/2180066548894270/

He's reloading .17HMR in an AR15 trying to shoot 1000yds with it.
If anybody is FB-disabled I'll screenshot and post the thread in here.

Has to be a piss-take doesn’t it?

No. It's true. It's on FB.
And no, it isn't April 1

[Wombat]

But it is on a closed group, even if you are on FB.

[bladeracer]

Okay.

EDIT: I put a little more effort into the screen shots, including the photos.

[Stix]

No. It's true. It's on FB.

Gotta be the saying of the younger generations & millennium i rekon...

[bladeracer]

But it is on a closed group, even if you are on FB.

Yes, I forgot about that.
Pretty much any group on FB to do with firearms or shooting has to be "closed", otherwise anti's join and then report them to shut the group down. There are FB groups for whom this is their only purpose - shutting down anything to do with us.

[bladeracer]

I personally didn't see the value. The brass is quite thin so I doubt you get many loads out of it.
But he's loading them for accuracy and velocity, not to save money or recycle the brass.

[in2anity]

Reckon it’s feasible? I mean what happens to 20gr pills crossing the barriers?

[bladeracer]

Reckon it’s feasible? I mean what happens to 20gr pills crossing the barriers?

Depends on BC and velocity, certainly possible I think.

[bladeracer]

Quick calc with Hornady's 25gn VMax (BC of .230). If he can launch it at 3700fps it stays supersonic to 750yds.
To be supersonic at 1000yds though requires 5200fps.
If he can make a 35gn bullet with a BC of .300, he only needs to launch it at 4000fps to stay supersonic at 1000yds.

[in2anity]

Quick calc with Hornady's 25gn VMax (BC of .230). If he can launch it at 3700fps it stays supersonic to 750yds.
To be supersonic at 1000yds though requires 5200fps.
If he can make a 35gn bullet with a BC of .300, he only needs to launch it at 4000fps to stay supersonic at 1000yds.

Reckon he’d have enough case to fit a heavier pill AND anywhere close to the amount of powder to launch it that quick? What about the strength of the action? And twist rate? Wonder what powder he’s considering - lil’gun?

[SCJ429]

The transonic buffeting can start at well over 1200 fps, sounds like a big ask but looks like they are having fun trying. Nice project.

[bladeracer]

Reckon he’d have enough case to fit a heavier pill AND anywhere close to the amount of powder to launch it that quick? What about the strength of the action? And twist rate? Wonder what powder he’s considering - lil’gun?

That I couldn't guess at, but I'm guessing he's far from standard already.
Maybe a longer throat, hotter priming compound to add some punch, and a longer barrel to add some velocity would help.
If he's using a standard AR15 the action is probably rated to well over double the .17HMR spec so I would think the case itself is the weakest point.

[bladeracer]

The transonic buffeting can start at well over 1200 fps, sounds like a big ask but looks like they are having fun trying. Nice project.

It can indeed, but I think it depends on the specific bullet, some can still be quite accurate even through the transition.

[Gwion]

I am finding this very difficult to believe. I'm sure a good shooter with the right set up can use a 17hmr to 'hit a gong' at 500 or further but claims of 0.4moa at those ranges being "typical" with as bc of .2something would require the birds and rabbits all stop breathing every time he takes aa shot...

[Cooper]

Quick calc with Hornady's 25gn VMax (BC of .230). If he can launch it at 3700fps it stays supersonic to 750yds.
To be supersonic at 1000yds though requires 5200fps.
If he can make a 35gn bullet with a BC of .300, he only needs to launch it at 4000fps to stay supersonic at 1000yds.

Surely you'd need a 17 hornet to launch a 25gr projectile that fast? And a 17 Remingtom or something to get a 35gr to 4000fps

[in2anity]

Quick calc with Hornady's 25gn VMax (BC of .230). If he can launch it at 3700fps it stays supersonic to 750yds.
To be supersonic at 1000yds though requires 5200fps.
If he can make a 35gn bullet with a BC of .300, he only needs to launch it at 4000fps to stay supersonic at 1000yds.

Surely you'd need a 17 hornet to launch a 25gr projectile that fast? And a 17 Remingtom or something to get a 35gr to 4000fps

Exactly my thoughts - and at what point does it stop being a 17HMR?

[Daddybang]

IF it's legit it would be impressive!!!!

[sungazer]

I don't quite get the part when he says he doesn't want to walk the impact in. However they will do that for a week in practice. Then stop for a day and the next day call it a first round hit.

[bladeracer]

I agree with you guys, doing this "with .17HMR" is quite different to doing it with a custom built rifle and bastardised ammo, but it's still pretty neat if he can manage it. It's not like it's going to be carrying any energy for any practical purpose

My calcs were just showing the requirements to keep the bullet supersonic at 1000yds, but the bullet only needs to hit the target at 1fps at 1000yds, as long as it's still travelling reasonably accurately. Lots and lots of targets have been hit at long range without being supersonic.

I think walking the bullet onto the target is different from simply taking a shot and getting a hit. You could shoot 5000 rounds over six months practicing, but getting a cold-bore hit on the day is still impressive.

[Gwion]

My 223 wallaby rifle with 50gn bullets is capable of 1" groups and smaller at 300yd on a day with good even wind. I can even keep it around the 5 ring at 600yds when everything goes right. The slightest variation in wind can tripple that group size. Any serious gusting or mid range fluctuations just blow it all over the place out at 600yd, which is it's absolute limit for supersonic impact. This is a 50gn bullet with a higher BC that the .17 35gn bullet, leaving the barrel at 3150fps (short barrel).

The 'typical' groups these guys are claiming just screams horse doodoo.
If they can do that, they should be unbeatable at world champ fclass or other precision shoots with their shooting skill, mirical working gunsmith, flawless reloading and divine wind reading.....

[sungazer]

I think they are going to be shooting on "That Day" the overcast inverted weather system with no wind. Again I don't think the first round hit is such a big deal once you have your rifle dope. If it is a reasonable rifle results should be repeatable from one session to the next all thing considered.

[bladeracer]

My 223 wallaby rifle with 50gn bullets is capable of 1" groups and smaller at 300yd on a day with good even wind. I can even keep it around the 5 ring at 600yds when everything goes right. The slightest variation in wind can tripple that group size. Any serious gusting or mid range fluctuations just blow it all over the place out at 600yd, which is it's absolute limit for supersonic impact. This is a 50gn bullet with a higher BC that the .17 35gn bullet, leaving the barrel at 3150fps (short barrel).

The 'typical' groups these guys are claiming just screams horse doodoo.
If they can do that, they should be unbeatable at world champ fclass or other precision shoots with their shooting skill, mirical working gunsmith, flawless reloading and divine wind reading.....

I agree about the accuracy side of it, but I think the practicality is that the shot is certainly possible.
I had a look at the trajectory of the Hornady .17HMR 20gn VMAX load at 2550fps. BC is only .125 compared to the .230 of the 25gn bullet. The calculator gives it barely more than 2000yd maximum potential range, and is virtually falling vertically by 2100yds. At about 1500yds it is is falling at 45-degrees. And, for a 1000yd zero, the bullet reaches 18.6m above LoS at 600yds, shooting up at an angle of two-degrees, requiring a +3500mm (117MoA) 100m zero. It is already subsonic by 260yds, and under 500fps at 100yds.

Now consider, Mark & Sam have done .22LR at 900yds...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg808TYc2Ao..although not a cold-bore hit. If they'd used a 48"-square target instead of the 24" they would've hit it with very good consistency, even in that wind. I don't know what their "group size" would've been, but probably sub-5MoA?

[southwest shooter]

WTF
I have enough trouble hitting the target using my 8.8 cm kwk 43 l/71 gun in my old Tiger 2 tank at 1000 yards !
Good luck with the 17 hmr .

[Gwion]

I think they are going to be shooting on "That Day" the overcast inverted weather system with no wind. Again I don't think the first round hit is such a big deal once you have your rifle dope. If it is a reasonable rifle results should be repeatable from one session to the next all thing considered.

Fair call.
There aren't too many of "those days", though.

[Gwion]

My 223 wallaby rifle with 50gn bullets is capable of 1" groups and smaller at 300yd on a day with good even wind. I can even keep it around the 5 ring at 600yds when everything goes right. The slightest variation in wind can tripple that group size. Any serious gusting or mid range fluctuations just blow it all over the place out at 600yd, which is it's absolute limit for supersonic impact. This is a 50gn bullet with a higher BC that the .17 35gn bullet, leaving the barrel at 3150fps (short barrel).

The 'typical' groups these guys are claiming just screams horse doodoo.
If they can do that, they should be unbeatable at world champ fclass or other precision shoots with their shooting skill, mirical working gunsmith, flawless reloading and divine wind reading.....

I agree about the accuracy side of it, but I think the practicality is that the shot is certainly possible.
I had a look at the trajectory of the Hornady .17HMR 20gn VMAX load at 2550fps. BC is only .125 compared to the .230 of the 25gn bullet. The calculator gives it barely more than 2000yd maximum potential range, and is virtually falling vertically by 2100yds. At about 1500yds it is is falling at 45-degrees. And, for a 1000yd zero, the bullet reaches 18.6m above LoS at 600yds, shooting up at an angle of two-degrees, requiring a +3500mm (117MoA) 100m zero. It is already subsonic by 260yds, and under 500fps at 100yds.

Now consider, Mark & Sam have done .22LR at 900yds...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg808TYc2Ao..although not a cold-bore hit. If they'd used a 48"-square target instead of the 24" they would've hit it with very good consistency, even in that wind. I don't know what their "group size" would've been, but probably sub-5MoA?

Sure. Not saying it can't be done. Just saying it can't be done on your "typical" shooting day with any sort of reliability. Those little bullets would be pushed around by a sparrow flying past at those ranges...

[sungazer]

Blade what calculator are you using. I tried JBM and got really different results, I then thought of trying Hornady Site if they had something specific for the 17HMR as it was one of their projectiles they only had a pretty basic calculator but it was close to the JBM results.

[bladeracer]

Blade what calculator are you using. I tried JBM and got really different results, I then thought of trying Hornady Site if they had something specific for the 17HMR as it was one of their projectiles they only had a pretty basic calculator but it was close to the JBM results.

I used this one - http://www.shooterscalculator.com/ - but I have several bookmarked, I haven't found one that I prefer for all things so far. JBM has been annoying me lately with failing to update all the changes when I run it. I'll put a set of numbers in and run it and find it's kept some of the previous numbers.

I can't get the hang of the Hornady one at all, unless I'm using one of their bullets.