Different headspacing on different brands of brass??

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Re: Different headspacing on different brands of brass??

Post by straightshooter » 08 Jul 2018, 12:25 pm

Rod_outbak
Wouldn't it make sense then to just trim the fired case. A little play on the neck pilot shouldn't pose a problem. If it is a problem then neck size only and trim.
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Re: Different headspacing on different brands of brass??

Post by Stix » 08 Jul 2018, 1:21 pm

Hey Rod...obviously im no expert, but with the brass you have id not mess around with it after its formed, other than neck size, trim & chamf/D'burr...

(I read somewhere ages ago it was good to FL Size brass after first firing, but i find its just a waste of time & dont do it now because depending on how springy the brass is that might mean firing 300 rounds before i get a uniform batch of 100 pcs-fuk that...!).

So once my brass is formed i just do as i said above...with the exception that sometimes i find brass needs a second firing to fully form (im talking uniformly over an entire batch), so once thats done, my regime is a clean, primer pockets & flash holes, then in one night i do the production line thing & neck size, trim, vld chamf & de-burr & a big wet tumble & good rinse- to get it out the way, (so my hands look like ive just swapped out the diff on an old holden by the time the cases hit the tumbler).

From there i just neck size..i find the odd case may stretch ever so slightly from firing after that, but not more than a thou so i just leave em be untill too tight to chamber....
& i really dont fl sizing.
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Re: Different headspacing on different brands of brass??

Post by Stix » 08 Jul 2018, 1:27 pm

Thanks SCJ & straighshtr... :thumbsup:
I know the brass lengthens or (flows) through the process, but didnt know the term 'drawing'... :drinks:
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Re: Different headspacing on different brands of brass??

Post by SCJ429 » 08 Jul 2018, 1:55 pm

Sorry Stix, didn't mean to sound simplistic,

I would just fire the new brass once, trim them to length and select the ones that are closest in weight for your best brass. No need to keep firing them before batching. I saw a guy fire forming Dasher brass and it was shooting in the .2s during forming.

The tumbled clean brass will be very grabby, neck tension consistency is harder with clean brass. I would clean the outside necks with some oil or solvent on a rag and leave the inside with the carbon intact. You can even dip the necks in Imperial graphite if you are really keen.

Don't trim unless some of the cases have reached maximum and then trim them all in that batch.
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Re: Different headspacing on different brands of brass??

Post by Stix » 08 Jul 2018, 3:08 pm

You've nothing to be sorry for SCJ... :unknown:
I asked a question--you answered--thats appreciated...!! :drinks:

Now i know drawing is not just a form of art, or the term for part of the process in making a good cuppa tea, but also a term used for metals flowing through manipulation...!!

I rather hear 100 simplistic things & learn one, than hear & learn nothing...& sounds to me you've experience i can learn from :thumbsup:

Im pleased with your suggestions on brass regime...it is pretty much what i do so hopefully im on the right track.

I have to enter the realms of annealing & other dies to better my neck tension (scary)...but i shan't go there in this thread...

I just felt i should speak up on this one as ive encountered the same problem as rod... :unknown:

:drinks:
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Re: Different headspacing on different brands of brass??

Post by straightshooter » 09 Jul 2018, 8:01 am

Stix wrote:Thanks SCJ & straighshtr... :thumbsup:
I know the brass lengthens or (flows) through the process, but didnt know the term 'drawing'... :drinks:


Drawing has specific meaning as a term for a particular metalworking process.
Similarly other metalworking processes are described as blanking, stamping, pressing, forging etc.
Some terms may be familiar, some may not but nevertheless they all refer to fairly specific processes.
If you want to inform yourself then google the term " drawing brass cartridge cases" where I am sure you will find a wealth of information.
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Re: Different headspacing on different brands of brass??

Post by Rod_outbak » 09 Jul 2018, 11:46 am

[quote="straightshooter"]Rod_outbak
Wouldn't it make sense then to just trim the fired case. A little play on the neck pilot shouldn't pose a problem. If it is a problem then neck size only and trim.[/quote]

Straightshooter, I dont use a neck pilot when trimming.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I wasnt asking for advice on why I should/shouldnt FL size.
I just wanted to know if anyone had encountered the variation in headspacing.

It turns out that it is a known issue, so I did end up with an answer to my question.
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Re: Different headspacing on different brands of brass??

Post by Rod_outbak » 09 Jul 2018, 12:57 pm

[quote="Stix"]Hey Rod...obviously im no expert, but with the brass you have id not mess around with it after its formed, other than neck size, trim & chamf/D'burr...

(I read somewhere ages ago it was good to FL Size brass after first firing, but i find its just a waste of time & dont do it now because depending on how springy the brass is that might mean firing 300 rounds before i get a uniform batch of 100 pcs-fuk that...!).

So once my brass is formed i just do as i said above...with the exception that sometimes i find brass needs a second firing to fully form (im talking uniformly over an entire batch), so once thats done, my regime is a clean, primer pockets & flash holes, then in one night i do the production line thing & neck size, trim, vld chamf & de-burr & a big wet tumble & good rinse- to get it out the way, (so my hands look like ive just swapped out the diff on an old holden by the time the cases hit the tumbler).

From there i just neck size..i find the odd case may stretch ever so slightly from firing after that, but not more than a thou so i just leave em be untill too tight to chamber....
& i really dont fl sizing.[/quote]


Stix, thanks for the advice, but I wasnt asking whether I should FL size brass.
If the process you've detailed works for you, then Happy Days.
I was asking if anyone had encountered the variance in headspacing between brands of brass, and while no-one here has, it turns out to be well known elsewhere.
So I got my answer, eventually.
[On an aside, I read in 3 different articles this morning, that many competition shooters are returning to FL sizing every reload, so it seems that there are just as many arguments for and against it.]

For cartridges like my .243, .308, 7mm-08, I follow this regime:
- If fired, they get de-primed and cleaned in a wet tumbler. Wet tumbling cleans inside/outside case and primer pockets.
[If new & unprimed, skip the previous process]
Inspect cases and reject any obvious defects, and then either:-
a). For new brass to this rifle (new, once-fired factory, or from another rifle)
- FL size with headspacing adjusted to -0.0025" below fired cases for this rifle.
- Trim in Giraud trimmer, which also chamfers inside/out.
- Check case length is now Trim-To-Length minimum.
- Steel wool on case mouth to remove any residual burrs. (Use battery screwdriver)
- Primer pocket uniform tool. (Use battery screwdriver)
- Inside Nylon case brush to ensure insides have nothing stuck within (Use battery screwdriver)

b) For cases I have previously loaded,
- de-prime and tumble clean.
- Once dry, inspect, and discard rejects
- Check case-length, and check if headspace allows the bolt to close easily.
- If above max, then start on process a).
- If below max, Neck-size.
- Chamfer inside/out (using battery screwdriver), and steel wool to remove burrs.
- Primer pocket uniformer tool (battery screwdriver)
- Inside Nylon case brush to ensure insides have nothing stuck within (Use battery screwdriver)

For any of the calibres/cartridges that I need to FL size each time, I pretty much just follow process a)..

At this point, the cases are ready to load.
- Prime with an RCBS hand-primer
- Powder dispensed with RCBS Chargemaster
- Measure COAL with calipers
- Weigh loaded cartridges, and record weight variation in batch.
- Write up reloading log & sticker for ammo box.

At some stage before Christmas, I'll set up a home-made annealer, and at that stage, I might change the processes a bit.

This is my regime, and it works for me. I'm not asking anyone else to adopt it.
To other reloaders, It's probably overly complicated in some areas, and too simplistic in others.
But it works for me.
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