Wet tumbling with stainless steel media

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Re: Wet tumbling with stainless steel media

Post by in2anity » 17 Jul 2018, 8:04 pm

sungazer wrote:I used to use the vinegar in the mix but have since left it out of the recipe. I now use just dishwashing liquid and the citric acid you can buy at the supermarket. I use 1/2 teaspoon in the water, I have found it gives just as good results and also gives a much more consistent finish from batch to batch.

Fair enough - but TBH I couldn’t give a toss about finish - so long as they go bang and generally end up where the thing was pointed, that’s all I care about. I’m no f-class shooter though...
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
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Re: Wet tumbling with stainless steel media

Post by sungazer » 17 Jul 2018, 10:11 pm

Stix wrote:
sungazer wrote:I used to use the vinegar in the mix but have since left it out of the recipe. I now use just dishwashing liquid and the citric acid you can buy at the supermarket. I use 1/2 teaspoon in the water, I have found it gives just as good results and also gives a much more consistent finish from batch to batch.


Interesting...
Does it take longer without the vinegar...?


No I found it to take exactly the same time. in2anity I figure if I am going to the trouble to clean the brass to a nice shiny finish then I may as well try and get them all shiny. when i was doing the Vinegar I just gestimated each time then I started using a measuring cup and for the citric acid I was just using a squeeze of a lemon. sometime I would get results like new and other times they would be a darker colour even sometimes not an even colour over the whole case.
Since just using the 1/2-3/4 teaspoon of citric acid they are pretty shiny and consistent. I have found you can let them sit in the solution for any time if it is not turning. Rinse and dry off with a towle quickly and put them in a storage box so they dont touch each other until perfectly dry otherwise you may get discoloration.
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Re: Wet tumbling with stainless steel media

Post by JimTom » 18 Jul 2018, 7:09 am

Might try the citric acid myself.
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Re: Wet tumbling with stainless steel media

Post by in2anity » 18 Jul 2018, 8:03 am

sungazer wrote:No I found it to take exactly the same time. in2anity I figure if I am going to the trouble to clean the brass to a nice shiny finish then I may as well try and get them all shiny. when i was doing the Vinegar I just gestimated each time then I started using a measuring cup and for the citric acid I was just using a squeeze of a lemon. sometime I would get results like new and other times they would be a darker colour even sometimes not an even colour over the whole case.
Since just using the 1/2-3/4 teaspoon of citric acid they are pretty shiny and consistent. I have found you can let them sit in the solution for any time if it is not turning. Rinse and dry off with a towle quickly and put them in a storage box so they dont touch each other until perfectly dry otherwise you may get discoloration.


Ok - I might give it a go too - what's the brand of citric acid sungazer? And what's your ratio? Is that 1/2-3/4 teaspoon of citric acid to 1L water and 1tbs of dish liquid?
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
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Re: Wet tumbling with stainless steel media

Post by sungazer » 18 Jul 2018, 10:27 am

I use the McKenzies available at Woolies. I use 1/2 teaspoon in the 5kg tumbler. I use just under 2L of water. I fill the tumbler with water, I have read one guy that says not to fill and only cover the brass enough. I dont see the value in this the full of water I dont believe weakens the cleaning power at all.
When finished it is important to rinse as soon as it stops I just put the tumbler under the tap and wait until the water runs clear and then I agitate with my hand. I then remove the cases one by one mouth down and shake /tap to remove any pins. The cases then go into a ice cream container full of water for a final rinse and check for pins. Then the shake and onto a towel for a dry. Then the complete dry there are many methods for this and its really important to get it right. One thing is though dont put them in a really hot oven for a long time as you will end up annealing the whole case a bad thing.
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Re: Wet tumbling with stainless steel media

Post by in2anity » 18 Jul 2018, 11:06 am

sungazer wrote:I use the McKenzies available at Woolies. I use 1/2 teaspoon in the 5kg tumbler. I use just under 2L of water. I fill the tumbler with water, I have read one guy that says not to fill and only cover the brass enough. I dont see the value in this the full of water I dont believe weakens the cleaning power at all.
When finished it is important to rinse as soon as it stops I just put the tumbler under the tap and wait until the water runs clear and then I agitate with my hand. I then remove the cases one by one mouth down and shake /tap to remove any pins. The cases then go into a ice cream container full of water for a final rinse and check for pins. Then the shake and onto a towel for a dry. Then the complete dry there are many methods for this and its really important to get it right. One thing is though dont put them in a really hot oven for a long time as you will end up annealing the whole case a bad thing.

How about dish liquid? Do use any?
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
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Re: Wet tumbling with stainless steel media

Post by sungazer » 18 Jul 2018, 2:14 pm

Yep a good squirt. From a lot of the instructions on the brand name ones they say if there are no suds when you are rinsing you didnt put enough in. I only use the cheap stuff though $1/L store brand. The concentrates no matter how much I tell my wife still get used in the same amount per wash as the cheap one. So no saving or even same price is achieved. Really I think the soap is there to remove any sizing oils or waxs that you may have used.
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Re: Wet tumbling with stainless steel media

Post by in2anity » 18 Jul 2018, 3:25 pm

sungazer wrote:Yep a good squirt. From a lot of the instructions on the brand name ones they say if there are no suds when you are rinsing you didnt put enough in. I only use the cheap stuff though $1/L store brand. The concentrates no matter how much I tell my wife still get used in the same amount per wash as the cheap one. So no saving or even same price is achieved. Really I think the soap is there to remove any sizing oils or waxs that you may have used.


K thanks for the info - I'll give it a try :drinks:
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
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Re: Wet tumbling with stainless steel media

Post by Jasonf » 19 Jul 2018, 8:09 pm

Thanks for the information all. It gives me some good opinions which I can base my decision.
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Re: Wet tumbling with stainless steel media

Post by Blutius Maximus » 26 Jul 2018, 5:55 pm

Like Cooper in post #2, I got a KT-2000 tumbler off eBay.
Mine was about $110 and came with 1Kg of steel pins.

I don't use your normal dish washing detergent that others seem to. It creates too many suds.
I use automatic dishwasher detergent, the one you buy from Aldi. It has lemon fragrance, so possibly contains citric acid anyway.

Here is my process.

I de-cap first.

Brass into the tumbler with auto dishwasher detergent and 'without' the steel pins. Always warm water.
I want to wash out most of the carbon without putting that crap on the pins.

Water is black. Rinse and add fresh water.
More auto dishwasher detergent and add the steel pins.

Let that do its work. Water still gets pretty dirty, so will rinse that,
For the last cycle, I'll put a bit more of that same detergent in but also add either citric acid or some vinegar. Have tried both, and both are okay.

Tumble, tumble, all nice any shiny. Rinse with water under the tap in the tumbler drum. Final step with the brass still in the drum and covered with fresh water, add a half teaspoon of Bi-Carb, swirl around, rinse and remove brass to dry.

Vinegar and the Citric Acid are mild acids. I like to neutralize the acid on the brass with the Bi-Carb before drying. Bi-carb has the added benefit of softening the water before drying, I guess.

Drop the brass into a towel to "roughly dry" and sit out to properly dry.

Just thinking about it, I guess you could use a few drops of rinse aid to soften the water too.
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Re: Wet tumbling with stainless steel media

Post by on_one_wheel » 11 Jul 2019, 3:42 pm

What size SS pins are people finding the best to use for tumbling both .223 and .243 ?

I'm going to give a cheep eBay tumbler a shot.
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Re: Wet tumbling with stainless steel media

Post by Stix » 11 Jul 2019, 5:00 pm

I didnt even know there were different sized pins available...so i use whatever my tumbler came with...1mm dia x 10mm long from memory...
I do 204, 22-250 & 308 with them...
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Re: Wet tumbling with stainless steel media

Post by TassieTiger » 11 Jul 2019, 9:12 pm

I’ve got an ultrasonic cleaner and it’s okay - not great...

Anyone tried these cheap as tumblers?
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/5KG-3KG-Rot ... 9-YovZwYoA
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Re: Wet tumbling with stainless steel media

Post by Stix » 11 Jul 2019, 9:27 pm

yep thats what ive got...
My lid leaks though...pitfa...!!

S o i put hot water in it & pressure helps seal it after the water cools down..but get a good bit of water out first. :thumbsdown:

But ive not heard of anyone else with the same problem...

Wow thats cheap compared to what i paid a few years ago...!!!
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Re: Wet tumbling with stainless steel media

Post by Sarco » 11 Jul 2019, 10:28 pm

After cleaning in the wet tumbler, I tip the tub out into a large fine sieve, placed inside a colander, sitting on a bucket with cheese cloth over the top.
I manually shake the pins out, dropping the cases into a small bucket as I go. Once the batch is completed, I tip them still wet into my vibratory tumbler and allow them to rumble away for 1 and 1/2 to 2 hours, this is more than adequately dry them out ready for immediate reloading, though I usually pack them into large screw top jars according to calibre, ready for future reloading.

When I fish them out of the tumbling media, I inspect the cases as I use a fine pin punch to clear the flash holes if/when necessary. I am afraid I don't see the point of the metho method.

I also lay the pins out in a cheap woollies serving tray to dry for few days before packing away.
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Re: Wet tumbling with stainless steel media

Post by wanneroo » 11 Jul 2019, 11:42 pm

TassieTiger wrote:I’ve got an ultrasonic cleaner and it’s okay - not great...

Anyone tried these cheap as tumblers?
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/5KG-3KG-Rot ... 9-YovZwYoA


I had an ultrasonic and I think they might have their place for certain things, but for brass it didn't get it as clean as I like. Mine is now on the shelf, perhaps will use it for gun parts and rusty things.
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Re: Wet tumbling with stainless steel media

Post by on_one_wheel » 12 Jul 2019, 12:23 am

Stix wrote:I didnt even know there were different sized pins available...so i use whatever my tumbler came with...1mm dia x 10mm long from memory...
I do 204, 22-250 & 308 with them...


Thanks Stix

That's about the same as the one other internet search result that I found that said .040" x .250"

I don't want to end up with 50 cases filled with jammed ss pins.
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Re: Wet tumbling with stainless steel media

Post by deanp100 » 12 Jul 2019, 9:00 pm

TassieTiger wrote:I’ve got an ultrasonic cleaner and it’s okay - not great...

Anyone tried these cheap as tumblers?
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/5KG-3KG-Rot ... 9-YovZwYoA

I have that exact tumbler. It has changed my life. It does a fabulous job for next to no dollars. I use car wash with citric acid and the brass comes out very shiny. Initially had a bit of an issue with tarnishing but I now dump them into a towel to roughly dry and then give them a spray with wd40 and then ruffle them in the towel again and there is enough of a coating to stop tarnishing. One tip though, fill the barrel with water completely as it needs that weight to hold it down on the rubber wheels . If you use less water it slips on the drive wheel.
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Re: Wet tumbling with stainless steel media

Post by TassieTiger » 12 Jul 2019, 9:06 pm

Cheers - one is on the way.,
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Re: Wet tumbling with stainless steel media

Post by on_one_wheel » 13 Jul 2019, 7:23 am

deanp100 wrote:
TassieTiger wrote:I’ve got an ultrasonic cleaner and it’s okay - not great...

Anyone tried these cheap as tumblers?
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/5KG-3KG-Rot ... 9-YovZwYoA

I have that exact tumbler. It has changed my life. It does a fabulous job for next to no dollars. I use car wash with citric acid and the brass comes out very shiny. Initially had a bit of an issue with tarnishing but I now dump them into a towel to roughly dry and then give them a spray with wd40 and then ruffle them in the towel again and there is enough of a coating to stop tarnishing. One tip though, fill the barrel with water completely as it needs that weight to hold it down on the rubber wheels . If you use less water it slips on the drive wheel.
Cheers
Deano

How do you find a 3 kilo size?
Will the 3 kilo comfortably take 50 x 308 / 253 cases?
I'm yet to decide between 3 and 5 kilos, I won't be cleaning more than 50 at a time.
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Re: Wet tumbling with stainless steel media

Post by Stix » 13 Jul 2019, 8:03 am

on_one_wheel wrote:How do you find a 3 kilo size?
Will the 3 kilo comfortably take 50 x 308 / 253 cases?
I'm yet to decide between 3 and 5 kilos, I won't be cleaning more than 50 at a time.


Ive found my tumbler is more efficient the fuller it is...
So i try do a couple of batches of diff cartridges at s time...so for example 50x304 & 50x7-08...

So if you only going to do 50 at a time, maybe go the smaller one...
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Re: Wet tumbling with stainless steel media

Post by deanp100 » 13 Jul 2019, 8:26 am

The 3 kg will take 50 308s easily, probably a lot more. My biggest batch was probably 150 mixed 222, 221 and some 308’s. Only took 20 mins or so.
Just checked my eBay profile. Mine was listed as a 4 kg unit. Looks the same as the other ad. Looks like you can buy a large 4 kg or a small 4 kg.
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Re: Wet tumbling with stainless steel media

Post by sungazer » 13 Jul 2019, 12:21 pm

I had a 3kg one and I dont think it took the 50 308 cases easily. I would say just. The 3 kg one is also much harder to use. The opening is hard to get your hand in and out of. My 3 kg one could not hold as many pins worst of all it broke after maybe just a year.
I then purchased a 5kg one and it really is much better, stronger and will take the 50 308 cases without a problem. You dont want all the cases and pins jammed in there. The units work much better with some space so everything can mix and move easily.
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Re: Wet tumbling with stainless steel media

Post by gordicans » 13 Jul 2019, 2:12 pm

sungazer wrote:Give Mark Granger a message on Australian Reloading and Trade he was importing a really good tumbler for about that price. he was not making much on them at all. I use a Aus converted KT 2000 the 5 kg version much better than the 3. They really are the way to go. The KT's are cheap and they do have problems here and there or sometimes so it is probably wise to buy a quality one that will really last.


Hi Sungazer, why do you think the 5kg version much better than the 3gk? Is it simply the bigger size or is there something else about them?

I don't go through a lot of cartridges so the 3kg version might suffice. The other alternative is the Lortone 3A Tumbler from Aussie Saphire which looks like a good quality unit but is nearly double the price.
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Re: Wet tumbling with stainless steel media

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 13 Jul 2019, 3:50 pm

Question regarding the 3 or 5kg ones. How many pins do you put in the jar and anyone got a link for good pins on Ebay
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Re: Wet tumbling with stainless steel media

Post by on_one_wheel » 13 Jul 2019, 4:48 pm

sungazer wrote:I had a 3kg one and I dont think it took the 50 308 cases easily. I would say just. The 3 kg one is also much harder to use. The opening is hard to get your hand in and out of. My 3 kg one could not hold as many pins worst of all it broke after maybe just a year.
I then purchased a 5kg one and it really is much better, stronger and will take the 50 308 cases without a problem. You dont want all the cases and pins jammed in there. The units work much better with some space so everything can mix and move easily.


Thank you sir.

I'll definitely buy the 5kg one then.

I didn't imagine in my wildest dreams getting a reply from someone who's had both sizes.... how good are forums! :drinks:
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Re: Wet tumbling with stainless steel media

Post by deanp100 » 13 Jul 2019, 6:09 pm

Ziad wrote:Question regarding the 3 or 5kg ones. How many pins do you put in the jar and anyone got a link for good pins on Ebay

I just use the ball bearings they sent and I tip,them all in. With the barrel on its end they are probably an inch deep.
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Re: Wet tumbling with stainless steel media

Post by gordicans » 13 Jul 2019, 6:27 pm

deanp100 wrote:
Ziad wrote:Question regarding the 3 or 5kg ones. How many pins do you put in the jar and anyone got a link for good pins on Ebay

I just use the ball bearings they sent and I tip,them all in. With the barrel on its end they are probably an inch deep.



Wondering though if the ball bearing ones will clean out the primer pockets as well as the little stainless steel pins? ie the ball bearings aren't going to get into the corners of the primer part of the case etc like the pins will. But hell the stainless pins are pretty expensive though ... cheapest I've found is the $45 for 1kg from Saphire.
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Re: Wet tumbling with stainless steel media

Post by deanp100 » 13 Jul 2019, 6:54 pm

gordicans wrote:
deanp100 wrote:
Ziad wrote:Question regarding the 3 or 5kg ones. How many pins do you put in the jar and anyone got a link for good pins on Ebay

I just use the ball bearings they sent and I tip,them all in. With the barrel on its end they are probably an inch deep.



Wondering though if the ball bearing ones will clean out the primer pockets as well as the little stainless steel pins? ie the ball bearings aren't going to get into the corners of the primer part of the case etc like the pins will. But hell the stainless pins are pretty expensive though ... cheapest I've found is the $45 for 1kg from Saphire.

I guess the primer pockets aren’t shiny like the rest of the case but the chemicals alone give them a good clean
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Re: Wet tumbling with stainless steel media

Post by sungazer » 13 Jul 2019, 10:59 pm

In the 3 kg one I purchased it came with no pins as advertised. I kicked up a stink with the ebay seller and got a part refund. With that I put it towards the kg of Lyman pins which I had already ordered. These are great no rust what so ever I keep them in the tumbler under water all the time. I did get pins with the 5Kg one dont think I have used any. This was through the Australian seller he changes plugs and may swap out pins. Most I have heard that come cheap with pins or balls the pins rust and the balls dont work very well.

The 5kg unit is a bit larger in every way and I think it is a stronger machine, however being Chinese longevity I think is always hit and miss. My 3kg tub did leak which I fixed with silicon. The thing I least liked about it was the size of the tub and being able to get cases out with you hand. I would never go back just absolutely no pros to the 3 kg unit.
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