My first attempt at developing a load

[YoungSC]

Looking for your input.

I was trying a Satterlee load development, but with 4 rounds per load rather than 1. I thought, why not focus on group size as well.

Rifle: Howa 1500 6.5 Creedmoor
Projectile: Lapua 139Gr Scenar
Case: Lapua
Powder: AR2209
Primer: CCI 450

Comments:
- This is my first centrefire. I've only shot 20 bullets previously out of this rifle off a bench to run it in. My technique may not have been completely consistent for this reason.
- 40.1 looks to be the sweet spot for velocity.
- 40.7 had the best group, but the worst SD. Go figure. May have been luck on the day.
- I'm thinking of running up some more around 40.1, but do a 40.7 just to check.

[marksman]

not knowing enough about your prep and setup makes it hard to give accurate advise
but I agree 40.1gr looks the better of what your testing shows, not to bad sd
I have tried the Scott Satterlee test and found it useful
what I really think is that you need to put some more rounds through the barrel and it will settle down more
I find its like the rifle comes to life after around 100-150 shots even though it has been run in
then try the same test again

[RoginaJack]

Very interesting indeed and as you say load 9 has the worst Standard Deviation of all, shot 2 & 3 deviate by 16, shot 1 & 4 deviate by 6 and overall by 33.7. How was pressure with this load?
I'd be interested in how load 9 would group with a better S.D. and load 10 ain't too shabby either....
Cheers

[Sergeant Hartman]

I have the same, it's a 24 in HCR. I too think 20 rounds and load dev is a bit low... I did 60 before i started. So I suppose not that much better....its hard sometimes being patient. Lol

Try 40.1 again mate. Did you use a rear rest. Maybe the barrel was warm. I trying nosler 140 ref.. with 40.6 I had really good group. And with 41.2 I was getting nearly as well groups but sd was 3 and es was 7.... I reckon the 41.2 to 41.5 will be the sweet spot.

[Stix]

Hey YoungSC,
i love the layout of your data...where does it come from...?
Ie;is it your own spread sheet, software...?

[bigrich]

As others have already posted, your barrel will settle in after more rounds and may actually prefer a different load at this point. Try different powder as well if you can afford it. i reload for 6.5x55 and ar2209 shoots well in both my 6.5’s , but for better groups with moderate loads alliant reloader 22 ( RE22 ) shoots noticeably better. Some rifles will “like “ a particular powder/bullet powder combination better than others. Trying different types of powder to find what it likes or dislikes can yield results.

[YoungSC]

Hey YoungSC,
i love the layout of your data...where does it come from...?
Ie;is it your own spread sheet, software...?

I'll start with the easy one.

'6.5 Guys' built the spreadsheet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKxf-dbexMM

Spreadsheet link is in the description.

[YoungSC]

I should mention, I put another 20 shots through the barrel just prior to the load test as part of the 'run in' regimen for some oil.

https://www.modernspartansystems.com/product/detail/accuracy-oil
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vD5Z8IHaC8Y

That only makes 40. Add the 42 for the load development work and I'm still short of 100.

I used a Caldwell sandbag for the rear rest. I've got a bag rider attachment coming soon from MDT.

The barrel was warm from the initial shots, but I tried to keep the temperature relatively consistent by walking out to the targets between 1-2 groups of load size batches and circling the groups to let the barrel cool.

I noticed that the bolt was hard to lift from about the 2nd or 3rd low group. There were no pressure signs noticeable on the primer, even up to the highest load.
The bolt face was rubbing against the bottom of the case and leaving a 'scratch ring'. Not sure what the deal is with that.

[YoungSC]

I have the same, it's a 24 in HCR. I too think 20 rounds and load dev is a bit low... I did 60 before i started. So I suppose not that much better....its hard sometimes being patient. Lol

Try 40.1 again mate. Did you use a rear rest. Maybe the barrel was warm. I trying nosler 140 ref.. with 40.6 I had really good group. And with 41.2 I was getting nearly as well groups but sd was 3 and es was 7.... I reckon the 41.2 to 41.5 will be the sweet spot.

Hi Ziad,

Given no normal pressure signs, I should be able to go above the 40.9Gr.

I noticed that there was more kick as I got to the heavier loads. The last couple started to get a little bit uncomfortable.

I know, I know, it's 6.5 Creedmoor. Feel free to accuse me of being a girly man. I guess I need to shoot a real man's cartridge for perspective.

[marksman]

can you post a pic of the scratch from the bolt face it sounds like pressure marks from ejector flow
primers are not a good indicator of pressure because they are not all made with the same materials eg. one is a harder cup than the other

[YoungSC]

Here is a picture of the loads from (left to right) low to high. The scrape mark is present on all of them, seen as a circle around the primer. I couldn't see an indent from the ejector.



Here's a picture of the bolt head. If you squint, you can see a corresponding circle for the scratch. There was a flake and smaller granules of brass present here when shooting. When I removed the larger flake, it seemed like the bolt release difficulty reduced a bit.

[bigrich]

Hey SC, I looked up ADI listed loads and 40 grains is the maximum load for 140 grains Hornady and 41.5 grains is the max listed for 142 grains Sierra. If ya bolt is hard to open after firing I’d probably be cautious. How is the bolt if you just chamber and eject without firing. Safely of coarse

[bigrich]

Your load 4 looks like a good one, 39.7 grains. The velocity your getting is in the zone for what I’ve been told is best for accuracy in 6.5 caliber. 2550-2650 seems to be very good in my Swedes. However, the most accurate load in my 1941 husqvana is the starting load of 44 grains of re22 with 142 grains match kings. This load probably only does 2450 FPS, but is consistently accurate . Where are you at with overall cartridge length ? This can make a difference..cheers

[YoungSC]

Hey SC, I looked up ADI listed loads and 40 grains is the maximum load for 140 grains Hornady and 41.5 grains is the max listed for 142 grains Sierra. If ya bolt is hard to open after firing I’d probably be cautious. How is the bolt if you just chamber and eject without firing. Safely of coarse

I made a couple of dummy rounds for working out the length to the lands. Cycling the bolt with these is smooth and easy.

I used the numbers from Nick Harvey's manual. He goes to 41 grains max, with a minimum of 37. I'm thinking about building some loads in the 37-39 range to see how I go. This would map towards the range suggested by the big rich.

Testing to date is with first fire brass if that makes a difference.

Your load 4 looks like a good one, 39.7 grains. The velocity your getting is in the zone for what I’ve been told is best for accuracy in 6.5 caliber. 2550-2650 seems to be very good in my Swedes. However, the most accurate load in my 1941 husqvana is the starting load of 44 grains of re22 with 142 grains match kings. This load probably only does 2450 FPS, but is consistently accurate . Where are you at with overall cartridge length ? This can make a difference..cheers

My total length is about 2.82" set up for 20 thou off the lands.

[marksman]

its not what I was describing as ejector swipe caused by the case head expanding and flowing into the ejector
FYI here's a picture that show the ejector mark I was talking about that shows a load getting to the upper limits



to your problem I would say something is not right mechanically with your rifle
because all the cases have the same ring marks
IMHO get the gunstore to send it to the gunsmiths and have it checked with a case to show the problem, while you have warranty
do you get the ring marks with factory ammo?
with some rifle you loose your warranty by using reloads

[YoungSC]

Thanks.

I had about 1 in 10 (of 40) of the factory loads have difficulty with bolt lift and these were more pronounced compared to the reloads, but they were the cheapest Federal soft points. A couple even presented an issue when pushing down the bolt knob when loading the round.

I kept the factory cases, but they don't have the ring marks.

[deanp100]

You are getting a bit of cratering around the primers. I would be backing off from these a little.

[bigrich]

hey SC ,hornady do a great "dummy" cartridge and overall cartridge length measuring tool. it's what i use to work out seating length. i seat my projectiles 30 thou of the lands, i know you can go closer, but i like to leave a good margin for error. you can get preasure spikes if the bullet is too close to the rifling lands as well. if you can open and close the bolt easy with the dummy rounds, but it gets hard to open after firing, your getting preasure problems for some reason IMHO. with the factory rounds being hard to close, i've struck that before in some of my rifles that have had aftermarket barrels with "tighter" match chambers. i had a 22 hornet with a swan barrel that would do that with PPU ammo. your chamber might be tight, hence the preasure signs . maybe . hope some of this helps, good luck and don't be afraid t ask for advice. cheers. stay safe

[YoungSC]

I thought I'd check back in with some subsequent findings.

I ran the lighter loads (37-39) and still saw the same issue, but to a slightly lesser extent. I then read an article about over pressure that was linked to in another thread. It talked about the presence of liquid causing higher pressure.

In my initial research, I'd established a significant level of paranoia regarding lubrication to prevent case getting stuck in the die. I'd overlooked the point that you don't need to lubricate when seating the bullet. I believe the lubricant was causing some over pressure, plus the case couldn't grip as well.

On subsequent load builds, I'm not seeing the same level of scoring and my bolt lift isn't an issue. 40Gr appears to be the sweet spot.

[Cal-ApeR]

Interesting read mate. Good to learn from others experiences. Cheers