Weight Batching Brass

Reloading equipment, methods, load data, powder and projectile information.

Re: Weight Batching Brass

Post by bigfellascott » 27 Oct 2018, 2:48 pm

Yeah nah I can't be bothered with all the witchcraft stuff, I just do the basics and it's good enough for my needs (300m+ headshots at times) not always successful but good enough for the fun I want without all the BS - I've got better things to do with my time (drinking) and I don't care about group sizes etc, been there been a victim of that crap and happy to not need to worry about it in the times of fur busting I do these days. :D

Each to their own of course and whatever floats ya boat is up to the individual but from my extensive hunting experience 99% of this stuff really isn't needed for the average hunter and most wouldn't shoot real long ranges on small game anyway from what I've seen over the years. :drinks:
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Re: Weight Batching Brass

Post by marksman » 28 Oct 2018, 4:51 pm

I am hearing you scott
many people just cant be bothered with the witchcraft stuff :drinks:
but seriously if the case volume didn't matter and was witchcraft you would mix your cases even with military stuff and have no problems :wtf:
case volume does play a big part in being able to consistently hit your target
what a heap of people dont really get there heads around is that less volume means more pressure
so a military case that weighs 5gr heavier than say a winchester case will have way more pressure for the same amount of powder
even seating your projectiles deeper will cause more pressure but a lot of reloaders think because they are getting further away from the lands having more jump they think they will have less pressure, the truth is that once your projectile is off the lands the pressure drops until you start to seat it deeper
you can tune a load to be very tolerant of small changes, its called the optimal charge weight :drinks:
but I have had very precise shooting rifles that have shot without checking the case volume, it does happen :allegedly:
“If you do not read the newspapers you are uninformed. If you do read the newspapers you are misinformed”. Mark Twain
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Re: Weight Batching Brass

Post by bigfellascott » 28 Oct 2018, 5:09 pm

Yeah nah not for me, I can't say I need to bother with it to be able to shoot fur out around 300m in the head, I've only ever done case weight sorting once along with flash hole trimming and neck turning etc and honestly it did SFA diff to how the rifle shot (ruger 223) so I never bothered with worrying about it again. My way of looking at it is if heads are exploding out around 300m or so with good consistency I don't need to worry about it, even the factory ammo goes alright in the Howso 204 out around the 250m and that was shooting down into a valley off a backpack when I used it and I doubt they would bother with all that weight sorting and turning of cases for better results, all this case prep stuff is just more target shooting witchcraft and that's where it should stay, people get all caught up in that sort of thing for their hunting rifles and I doubt it really makes SFA diff in hunting situations where there's SFA time to stuff around waiting for wind readings, shooting at known distances and at targets that don't move around or can sense there is danger nearby and often shooting off makeshift rests etc

For mine it's a waste of time for hunting purposes, for target shooting etc it may be of some benefit but I would suggest learning how to shoot well would make a bigger difference at the end of the day. :drinks:
First time out with the Howso 204 shooting factory ammo at a rabbit warren that was around 220m or so away down in the valley below, some were shot at 250-260m - it took a couple of shots to work out where the rifle was shooting and then it was head removal time :D

Image

Image

These 2 copped it in the head out around 270m with the rifle bipod resting on my feet for added elevation, mum was plugged first and junior popped out about 30sec later and got the same head massage treatment.

Image

Image

I'm not sure how much better case sorting etc would make this rifle shoot as it shoots pretty good as it is out of the box.
This is how it shot using factory ammo (3 shots in the little red dot in the middle of the target and 1 just out to the top as you can see in the pic.

This is with my handloads out around 140m from memory - yeah I could stuff around and try and tighten the group up if I wanted but honestly s**t just keeps falling over so I figure why waste my time when it works, if it works I say leave it alone. :thumbsup:

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Re: Weight Batching Brass

Post by Gaznazdiak » 28 Oct 2018, 5:47 pm

Some good shooting there Scott.

Mate, I do it because I need all the help I can get.
:lol:

It's like when I'm building something nobody else is likely to see. I still see it so I want to do it the best I can.

Everyone needs a hobby and it beats train spotting.
Get a lot of them here because the road intersects the highest point for the main southern railway line and the trains are able to be photographed.

We think benchrest guys can get anal, one guy out there last year had his video setup on one tripod, a still camera on another tripod, he's looking round and making notes about where he was and weather and such.

In my naivete, I thought there must have been something special coming, so I asked him WTF?

He informed me that a particular loco was due through. When the train was passing, Old Mate is snapping away, video going, all impressed with himself, so I asked him what was special about that one.

Turns out this character wasn't interested in the locos per se, he collected the numbers painted on the sides.

He had driven +90km out from Canberra to get his jiggy on over some painted numbers :crazy:

Be a boring old world without the "special" people, eh?
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Re: Weight Batching Brass

Post by marksman » 28 Oct 2018, 7:07 pm

and I agree with you scott that if it works leave it alone :drinks:
the fine tuning isn't for everyone and isn't always needed
that rifle shoots very well and is one you would not pass on, it has a very good barrel and has been put together right
its a pity that all rifles don't just shoot like that :unknown: some rifles dont need pampering :thumbsup:

as I said before I dont weigh cases anymore, I weigh the water volume of the case but if the volume was not worth worrying about you would mix your brass brands up and not care, even military cases in the mix
but being responsible handloader's we know that doing that we may blow our rifle up if we are reloading at or near max pressure :wtf:

anyway for those who are interested here is a utube vid that explains the importance of knowing your water case capacity :drinks:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_l0s5n5Q-0
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Re: Weight Batching Brass

Post by bigfellascott » 28 Oct 2018, 8:05 pm

Sounds like I'm lucky to be alive going by ol mates woffle on how important it is to do the water weight thing, I use all sorts of diff manufactured brass all running the same load for years and years not one instance of a problem that I've noticed (although I did have a pierced primer once many many years ago) and I've had one or 2 split necks over the years other than that not a problem.

I'm just glad I don't suffer from OCD. :D what's next measuring the grain length of powder to ensure it's got some sort of burn rate consistency :lol:

You boys and ya witchcraft reloading techniques. :D
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Re: Weight Batching Brass

Post by bigfellascott » 28 Oct 2018, 8:35 pm

Gaznazdiak wrote:Some good shooting there Scott.

Mate, I do it because I need all the help I can get.
:lol:

It's like when I'm building something nobody else is likely to see. I still see it so I want to do it the best I can.

Everyone needs a hobby and it beats train spotting.
Get a lot of them here because the road intersects the highest point for the main southern railway line and the trains are able to be photographed.

We think benchrest guys can get anal, one guy out there last year had his video setup on one tripod, a still camera on another tripod, he's looking round and making notes about where he was and weather and such.

In my naivete, I thought there must have been something special coming, so I asked him WTF?

He informed me that a particular loco was due through. When the train was passing, Old Mate is snapping away, video going, all impressed with himself, so I asked him what was special about that one.

Turns out this character wasn't interested in the locos per se, he collected the numbers painted on the sides.

He had driven +90km out from Canberra to get his jiggy on over some painted numbers :crazy:

Be a boring old world without the "special" people, eh?


I think I know the train you're talking about, I saw a show on it a while back, I think it went down Goulburn way. :thumbsup:
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Re: Weight Batching Brass

Post by Stix » 28 Oct 2018, 10:26 pm

Nice group big fella.

Im with Gaz & i need all the help i can get.

If my rifle did what yours does with any brass & bugger all prep i wouldnt bother either... :thumbsup:

In trying to re-sight my 204 in today, ive also had gòod results with my annealing test.

After 5 firings my groups have opened up (a couple of firings ago) to .7"-.8"...sometimes out to nearly an inch.

So i finally FL sized, trimmed, chamfer deburr & annealed the cases.
Then i neck sized them again...

So the load i use shoots a relatively consistant .3"-.4" at 100m (110yds)-(before they opened up a bit)

While i was only shooting 2 shots at a time for this exercise today (sighting in), the 2 shot groups (not really a group i know) but the pairs of shots are at .4"-but now at 200 yds...!!
2018-10-28 22.38.39.jpg
204 200 yds 3-5 mph wind chopping from 11-1 o'clck
2018-10-28 22.38.39.jpg (292.73 KiB) Viewed 4945 times

Im pretty happy with that...so far the effort to anneal & re-prep all the brass looks like it was worth it...for me anyway.

At the end of the day, i dont care what others do to their brass, im just learning it all.
But one things for sure big fella...if i imagine you & i sniping 300+ yd bunnies from under the shade of a eucalypt while washing down beer nuts with an ale between turns...the only thing that comes to mind is the size of the grin & joy on our faces...!!! :clap: :D :drinks:...not the case prep...!!!
The man who knows everything, doesnt really know everything...he's just stopped learning...
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Re: Weight Batching Brass

Post by Member-Deleted » 29 Oct 2018, 12:32 am

I've never annealed any brass ever or even weighed any brass ever always had excellent accuracy in all my rifles once a load has been worked up :thumbsup:
But I think its what ever floats your boat as what was said about distance from the lands its a way by moving the projectile in hence reducing the volume
of the case then there is more pressure when fired it wouldn't take much reduction in volume to create a fair amount of pressure and this could fine tune
the load I don't think the witchcraft as Scott puts it is really necessary for every day hunters but if you are into extra long hunting then you would do whatever it took to be as accurate as possible for an ethical kill but on saying that for what I do and the distances I shoot out to 540yds so far very comfortably
and so far I don't need to do any extra to my bullets to get the job done :thumbsup: :drinks:
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Re: Weight Batching Brass

Post by Gaznazdiak » 29 Oct 2018, 8:18 am

bigfellascott wrote:
Gaznazdiak wrote:Some good shooting there Scott.

Mate, I do it because I need all the help I can get.
:lol:

It's like when I'm building something nobody else is likely to see. I still see it so I want to do it the best I can.

Everyone needs a hobby and it beats train spotting.
Get a lot of them here because the road intersects the highest point for the main southern railway line and the trains are able to be photographed.

We think benchrest guys can get anal, one guy out there last year had his video setup on one tripod, a still camera on another tripod, he's looking round and making notes about where he was and weather and such.

In my naivete, I thought there must have been something special coming, so I asked him WTF?

He informed me that a particular loco was due through. When the train was passing, Old Mate is snapping away, video going, all impressed with himself, so I asked him what was special about that one.

Turns out this character wasn't interested in the locos per se, he collected the numbers painted on the sides.

He had driven +90km out from Canberra to get his jiggy on over some painted numbers :crazy:

Be a boring old world without the "special" people, eh?


I think I know the train you're talking about, I saw a show on it a while back, I think it went down Goulburn way. :thumbsup:


No mate, this wasn't a special train. It was a bog standard, grubby blue and yellow diesel loco, just like all the others, pulling grain.

This guy wasn't interested in the train, he collected the numbers painted on the side.
He proudly informed me that he had nearly all of them.

I was sorely tempted to ask him what he was going to do with his life once he'd collected all of them but he was so pleased with his achievement I thought it would be churlish to throw dirt on his happiness.
:drinks:
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Re: Weight Batching Brass

Post by marksman » 29 Oct 2018, 10:36 am

bigfellascott wrote:Sounds like I'm lucky to be alive going by ol mates woffle on how important it is to do the water weight thing, I use all sorts of diff manufactured brass all running the same load for years and years not one instance of a problem that I've noticed (although I did have a pierced primer once many many years ago) and I've had one or 2 split necks over the years other than that not a problem.

I'm just glad I don't suffer from OCD. :D what's next measuring the grain length of powder to ensure it's got some sort of burn rate consistency :lol:

You boys and ya witchcraft reloading techniques. :D


cmon scott
I explained earlier that I need to weigh the water volume of the cases so I can extrapolate a load with quickload to find the max load for that particular rifle
:huh: sorry to much information :huh: OCD is kicking in :wtf:
very happy for people not to try and squeeze every bit of accuracy out of there reloads, but there are people who want to know how to :drinks:
very sorry if I'm woffleing on :lol: :violin: :sarcasm:
“If you do not read the newspapers you are uninformed. If you do read the newspapers you are misinformed”. Mark Twain
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Re: Weight Batching Brass

Post by bigfellascott » 29 Oct 2018, 7:36 pm

marksman wrote:
bigfellascott wrote:Sounds like I'm lucky to be alive going by ol mates woffle on how important it is to do the water weight thing, I use all sorts of diff manufactured brass all running the same load for years and years not one instance of a problem that I've noticed (although I did have a pierced primer once many many years ago) and I've had one or 2 split necks over the years other than that not a problem.

I'm just glad I don't suffer from OCD. :D what's next measuring the grain length of powder to ensure it's got some sort of burn rate consistency :lol:

You boys and ya witchcraft reloading techniques. :D


cmon scott
I explained earlier that I need to weigh the water volume of the cases so I can extrapolate a load with quickload to find the max load for that particular rifle
:huh: sorry to much information :huh: OCD is kicking in :wtf:
very happy for people not to try and squeeze every bit of accuracy out of there reloads, but there are people who want to know how to :drinks:
very sorry if I'm woffleing on :lol: :violin: :sarcasm:


It's all good mate, you do what works best for you, me I can't be bothered with all that blackmagic stuff, I find what I've been doing since age 12 has been good enough for my needs, can't see any reason to change it TBH. :thumbsup:
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Re: Weight Batching Brass

Post by bigfellascott » 29 Oct 2018, 7:39 pm

Stix wrote:Nice group big fella.

Im with Gaz & i need all the help i can get.

If my rifle did what yours does with any brass & bugger all prep i wouldnt bother either... :thumbsup:

In trying to re-sight my 204 in today, ive also had gòod results with my annealing test.

After 5 firings my groups have opened up (a couple of firings ago) to .7"-.8"...sometimes out to nearly an inch.

So i finally FL sized, trimmed, chamfer deburr & annealed the cases.
Then i neck sized them again...

So the load i use shoots a relatively consistant .3"-.4" at 100m (110yds)-(before they opened up a bit)

While i was only shooting 2 shots at a time for this exercise today (sighting in), the 2 shot groups (not really a group i know) but the pairs of shots are at .4"-but now at 200 yds...!!
2018-10-28 22.38.39.jpg

Im pretty happy with that...so far the effort to anneal & re-prep all the brass looks like it was worth it...for me anyway.

At the end of the day, i dont care what others do to their brass, im just learning it all.
But one things for sure big fella...if i imagine you & i sniping 300+ yd bunnies from under the shade of a eucalypt while washing down beer nuts with an ale between turns...the only thing that comes to mind is the size of the grin & joy on our faces...!!! :clap: :D :drinks:...not the case prep...!!!


Nothing better than sitting under a tree busting bunnies, I'll bring the beer you bring the nuts :D :drinks:
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Re: Weight Batching Brass

Post by bigfellascott » 29 Oct 2018, 7:43 pm

Gaznazdiak wrote:
bigfellascott wrote:
Gaznazdiak wrote:Some good shooting there Scott.

Mate, I do it because I need all the help I can get.
:lol:

It's like when I'm building something nobody else is likely to see. I still see it so I want to do it the best I can.

Everyone needs a hobby and it beats train spotting.
Get a lot of them here because the road intersects the highest point for the main southern railway line and the trains are able to be photographed.

We think benchrest guys can get anal, one guy out there last year had his video setup on one tripod, a still camera on another tripod, he's looking round and making notes about where he was and weather and such.

In my naivete, I thought there must have been something special coming, so I asked him WTF?

He informed me that a particular loco was due through. When the train was passing, Old Mate is snapping away, video going, all impressed with himself, so I asked him what was special about that one.

Turns out this character wasn't interested in the locos per se, he collected the numbers painted on the sides.

He had driven +90km out from Canberra to get his jiggy on over some painted numbers :crazy:

Be a boring old world without the "special" people, eh?


I think I know the train you're talking about, I saw a show on it a while back, I think it went down Goulburn way. :thumbsup:


No mate, this wasn't a special train. It was a bog standard, grubby blue and yellow diesel loco, just like all the others, pulling grain.

This guy wasn't interested in the train, he collected the numbers painted on the side.
He proudly informed me that he had nearly all of them.

I was sorely tempted to ask him what he was going to do with his life once he'd collected all of them but he was so pleased with his achievement I thought it would be churlish to throw dirt on his happiness.
:drinks:


Sounds like ol mate had some serious OCD thing going on hey :lol: it always amazes me what people get obsessed over, she's a funny world alright, I've got a mate with about 30 chainsaws, about 10 eskies, about 20 motorbikes etc, got me f***ed why anyone would want 10 eskies :lol: and now he's upgraded to a fridge for camping so the eskies are redundant but I bet he will keep em just in case. :unknown:
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Re: Weight Batching Brass

Post by duncan61 » 29 Oct 2018, 8:15 pm

I case trim and neck ream,I like to use the same brand of case,My .222 cases are all PPU .243 all Winchester and 7mm are all Remington.Works for me
.22 winchester .22hornet .222 .243 7mm rem mag cbc 12g
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