Trailboss---which primers...?

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Trailboss---which primers...?

Post by Stix » 02 Dec 2018, 1:51 pm

Hi folks...

A fellow mentioned to me about using magnum primers for trailboss loads in rifle.

Ive done a little reading but im curious to know what you other Trailboss enthusiasts use & if these primers will make a difference in accuracy...?

I dod read from someone here (but on another forum) something about magnum primers giving TB a more even burn... :unknown:

My 204 load that i poached from you Blade, is about an inch whether its at 8gn or up tp 10gn of TB, so i wonder if the primer will make a difference...?

Your thoughts &/experience would be greatly appreciated.

:drinks:
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Re: Trailboss---which primers...?

Post by bigpete » 02 Dec 2018, 1:58 pm

I just use standard primer
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Re: Trailboss---which primers...?

Post by bladeracer » 02 Dec 2018, 3:58 pm

Stix wrote:Hi folks...

A fellow mentioned to me about using magnum primers for trailboss loads in rifle.

Ive done a little reading but im curious to know what you other Trailboss enthusiasts use & if these primers will make a difference in accuracy...?

I dod read from someone here (but on another forum) something about magnum primers giving TB a more even burn... :unknown:

My 204 load that i poached from you Blade, is about an inch whether its at 8gn or up tp 10gn of TB, so i wonder if the primer will make a difference...?

Your thoughts &/experience would be greatly appreciated.

:drinks:


I use magnum primers in all LR brass, regardless of the powder. I don't buy any standard LR primers at all. I did do some load tests using LRM, LR and some thirty-year-old LR primers and saw no difference at all between them. I think they were 8x57mm but I'd have to check my log.
I don't use mag primers in any SR brass. If I had something that was larger-capacity in small primer I might try mag primers in it, like .308 Palma maybe.
I use the Win "Std and Mag" primers for pistol cartridges, but mainly just so they're different to avoid mixing them up with rifle primers - rifle primers give me light strikes in my PC rifles.

I've read that Trailboss prefers magnum primers, but I can't say that it makes any difference myself. I load TB in loads from completely full cases to a tiny amount floating in the bottom of the cases and they all seem to ignite just fine.

Never hurts to try different things in the quest for accuracy. For me, the TB load in the .204 is basically a .22WMR/Hornet load, for closer ranges, so I don't need half-MoA out of it. I keep 300+ of these loads on hand as I can shoot them all day long. The full-power .204 loads I would have less than 100 of each of several different loads with 24gn, 32gn and 39gn bullets.
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Re: Trailboss---which primers...?

Post by Cooper » 02 Dec 2018, 5:29 pm

Interesting topic. I tried both with my 223 and decided to stick to standard primers. Mainly because I use standard small rifle primers in everything else I load. I also had this idea in my head that I could accidentally use the Magnum primers in my other loads casing an issue.

Just recently I went to buy some more standard large rifle primers but my local was out of the brand I use. He had the magnum version. He said they would be almost no difference. Like 0.1gr difference. I think he was mainly baseing this on experience with pistols reloading.

Anyway he gave me a packet to try.

I loaded up some standard and magnum primers and to my surprise the magnum primers were an average of 10fps slower than standard primers. This is kind of opposite to what I thought would happen. Thinking hotter would mean faster. But hotter might mean faster but less pressure.

Obviously between different brands of primers they will be differences also. All you can do is try it and see what works best for you.
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Re: Trailboss---which primers...?

Post by JimTom » 02 Dec 2018, 7:35 pm

Very interesting mate. I use small rifle magnum primers in my 6.5CM SRP brass as that is what I was advised.
I am going to try some with standard small rifle primers to see if it makes a difference.
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Re: Trailboss---which primers...?

Post by Bills Shed » 03 Dec 2018, 4:53 am

I have tried magnum primers in my 223 and Trailboss and have found very little difference. Still experimenting though.
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Re: Trailboss---which primers...?

Post by Cooper » 09 Apr 2020, 6:19 pm

Digging up an old thread. I got a couple of thousand Remington 6 1/2 primers to use up. Says on the box not recommended for 222/223. I thought they were just standard Small Rifle primers. The Remington 7 1/2 has the thicker primer cup.

I will try them in my Trailboss loads (lower pressure) and see how they go.
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Re: Trailboss---which primers...?

Post by Blr243 » 09 Apr 2020, 6:46 pm

I have t b in 303 , 450 bm and possibly 300 AAC But I have only experimented with standard primers
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Re: Trailboss---which primers...?

Post by Stix » 09 Apr 2020, 10:00 pm

Cooper wrote:Digging up an old thread. I got a couple of thousand Remington 6 1/2 primers to use up. Says on the box not recommended for 222/223. I thought they were just standard Small Rifle primers. The Remington 7 1/2 has the thicker primer cup.

I will try them in my Trailboss loads (lower pressure) and see how they go.




Let us know how they go...although im sure they'll work just dandy.

Well i havent bothered trying magnum primers in any trailboss loads since this thread...or ever...

Got some pretty interesting chrono results recently though...couldnt believe how good the numbers were with trailboss...!!
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Re: Trailboss---which primers...?

Post by bladeracer » 09 Apr 2020, 10:05 pm

Stix wrote:[quote="Cooper"Digging up an old thread. I got a couple of thousand Remington 6 1/2 primers to use up. Says on the box not recommended for 222/223. I thought they were just standard Small Rifle primers. The Remington 7 1/2 has the thicker primer cup.

I will try them in my Trailboss loads (lower pressure) and see how they go.[/quote



Let us know how they go...although im sure they'll work just dandy.

Well i havent bothered trying magnum primers in any trailboss loads since this thread...or ever...

Got some pretty interesting chrono results recently though...couldnt believe how good the numbers were with trailboss...!!


I put it down to the lesser density of the powder, three times more surface area to ignite.
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Re: Trailboss---which primers...?

Post by Stix » 09 Apr 2020, 10:26 pm

Yea ok...makes sense...!

I still got some pretty bad flyers though.

Having said that, the intersting thing i found was, that the brass im using seems all over the place in neck tension despite annealing (various batches of R-P Brass all thrown in & weight sorted). So with full loads i cant get anything that is consistantly better than an inch (that includes all flyers). So i figured id get worse accuracy with Trailboss, yet i got a lot better...considerably better in fact..!??

However, it was hard to pick between a couple of groups showing nodes, so i was trying to come up with a mathematical equivelant to the OCW test, where i think i read somewhere that the node is 1.5% from the scatter node...but the charge weights i was shooting (22-250 case, from 9.5gr up to 12.5) are hard to figure the differences.

Im going to go pull out the target & numbers now & have a look.
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Re: Trailboss---which primers...?

Post by bladeracer » 09 Apr 2020, 10:34 pm

Stix wrote:Yea ok...makes sense...!

I still got some pretty bad flyers though.

Having said that, the intersting thing i found was, that the brass im using seems all over the place in neck tension despite annealing (various batches of R-P Brass all thrown in & weight sorted). So with full loads i cant get anything that is consistantly better than an inch (that includes all flyers). So i figured id get worse accuracy with Trailboss, yet i got a lot better...considerably better in fact..!??

However, it was hard to pick between a couple of groups showing nodes, so i was trying to come up with a mathematical equivelant to the OCW test, where i think i read somewhere that the node is 1.5% from the scatter node...but the charge weights i was shooting (22-250 case, from 9.5gr up to 12.5) are hard to figure the differences.

Im going to go pull out the target & numbers now & have a look.


I have found in some cartridges that accuracy can improve with larger charges of TB, despite not seeing any increase in velocity.
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Re: Trailboss---which primers...?

Post by in2anity » 09 Apr 2020, 10:36 pm

Stix wrote:Got some pretty interesting chrono results recently though...couldnt believe how good the numbers were with trailboss...!!

Yields impressive SDs doesn’t it Stix! :clap:
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Re: Trailboss---which primers...?

Post by Stix » 09 Apr 2020, 10:55 pm

Ok...so i was shooting a cheap as chips 45 hp in crappy brass (22-250), started at 10 grains, & went up to 12 gr in half grain increments. Only one 4 shot group of each here...

The target is telling me this...4 shot groups...
10gr = Scatter @ 11 o'clock Av = 2108, SD of 6.7
10.5gr = Node @ 9.30 Av = 2171, SD of 4.75
11gr = scatter @ 5.30 Av = 2232, SD of 3.8
11.5gr = Node @ bullseye Av = 2292, SD of 9.4...this is the best group...3 shots touching with one flyer half inch out.
12gr = Scatter @4.30 Av = 2359, Sd of 8.5

Its interesting that the groups clock around, but do so pretty violently--what i mean is not subtle small movements as with full loads....and no 2 charge weights print in the same spot to be able to tell if you might be at a node...

i wish i lived on a farm so i could go out tomorrow & see at what charge increments the clocking becomes smaller changes, & see where the middle of the node is...and for that matter, if there are nodes in between that are missed due to the high charge weight percentage differences...because the half grain differences are ofcourse nearly 5 times the incremental differences of that usually used for testing full loads (5%(ish) as to 1%(ish) increments).
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Re: Trailboss---which primers...?

Post by Stix » 09 Apr 2020, 11:03 pm

in2anity wrote:"Stix---Got some pretty interesting chrono results recently though...couldnt believe how good the numbers were with trailboss...!![
Yields impressive SDs doesn’t it Stix! :clap:

indeed it does...!!

Id like to find the middle of the node...im not comfortable in shooting bunnies further than 100-120 max, but if i knew i could narrow the spread of the flyers id head shoot them out to 150...(doesnt sound like much i know, but it is when youre used to blowing them up with a 204. :) )
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Re: Trailboss---which primers...?

Post by Cooper » 10 Apr 2020, 2:18 pm

No problem with the Remington 6 1/2 primer in my Trailboss loads. Preformed the same as my normal loads using S+B primers. Just used the 204 for testing purposes. Also tried my first 223 loads out of the progressive press using Lee Auto drum to drop the powder. It’s just A Lee Auto Breech Lock Pro. Just need to work on my rhythm.
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