TassieTiger wrote:100 yards is about 91 metres from memory - so yes - your correct, I am shooting in excess of the manufactures claims - about 10% longer.
I hear what your saying bladeR - but from what I’ve been told, it’s likely that you’d find yourself with a $600 bill and a returned rifle - with no amendments.
My advice is that the steyr factory would have shot this rifle before leaving factory with high spec premium ammunition and recorded a Moa group. If I return the rifle - The Moa card recorded against this serial no will be pulled, details replicated exactly and as long as those results are within 20% of original - they’ve met their obligations and you’ve now got a large bill. They allow a 20% change - due to possible damage in post/transit (I know right - crazy) also need to Keep in mind - their premium ammunition for an 06 could be from 110gns on upwards - to 230gns and precision weighted, precision loads, temp controlled barrel, etc etc etc.
A Moa claim on a rifle is almost impossible to disprove (unless it’s mentally bent or something).
It’s an interesting situation - again, I need to stress - I am not unhappy with the rifle, I know it will shoot, I need to work out the parameters it likes.
How many people are out there that buy a new gun that has an advertised accuracy rating confirmed by a fancy magazine write up marksman with years of experience- that they then try and emulate and can’t get near...I bet there are thousands...
bladeracer wrote:TassieTiger wrote:Thanks GB.
I’m not sure how it will turn out but lessons in life are never free.
What amazes me - like really sits me on my bottom - is they steyr comment that they don’t test fire all their rifles as it costs money...that’s a problem in more ways than one. It’s almost a blatant lucky dip and there are bloody well safety concerns!
Test-firing would be different to testing for accuracy. Test-firing would be done into a backstop without any sights mounted.
But I would expect any factory to have a bench setup with a scope that they can fix each rifle into for accuracy testing, without having to mount sights on the rifle. They have no need to hit a target, they just want group size and pattern.
TassieTiger wrote:I think MM posted this up a while back - go to 3min 30 and listen to the blurb...we guarantee steyrs blah blah...we stand behind our firearms 100% blah blah...you will not find a more accurate out of the box rifle against a STEYR...blah blah.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dsoLYo4xG14
MM is also correct re Aust law. The legal point stating, “does the rifle meet the reasonable expectations of the consumer”.
The local gun shop told me that ALL rifles at this price point come with Moa guarantees now, they simply have too, or no one would buy their products because everyone wants a “shooter” and no one is going to risk not competing without an accuracy claim.
Made sense to me at the time.
Bills Shed wrote:bladeracer wrote:TassieTiger wrote:Thanks GB.
I’m not sure how it will turn out but lessons in life are never free.
What amazes me - like really sits me on my bottom - is they steyr comment that they don’t test fire all their rifles as it costs money...that’s a problem in more ways than one. It’s almost a blatant lucky dip and there are bloody well safety concerns!
Test-firing would be different to testing for accuracy. Test-firing would be done into a backstop without any sights mounted.
But I would expect any factory to have a bench setup with a scope that they can fix each rifle into for accuracy testing, without having to mount sights on the rifle. They have no need to hit a target, they just want group size and pattern.
I would be surprised if they even test for accuracy. If the firearm passes all its function, safety, and gauging tests the firearm is ready to go. Back when I was a gun plumber we would inspect and repair dozens of rifles a day. If we test fired all of them it would take us months to do a armoury. You can assemble a rifle and deam it ready to go without firing it. ( how many gun smiths fire the rifles they repair / build?) You can test fire it without testing for accuracy, and accuracy is a term that is open to interpretation and is only as good as the shooter. It is all in the detail.
If you make enough noise you may get your money back but most of what you have said Tassie is hearsay in relation to what you told your LGS. Maybe their customer service may accomodate your desires and change the rifle but I think you are pushing the Dunny bucket up hill.
Bill
Bills Shed wrote:I would be surprised if they even test for accuracy. If the firearm passes all its function, safety, and gauging tests the firearm is ready to go. Back when I was a gun plumber we would inspect and repair dozens of rifles a day. If we test fired all of them it would take us months to do a armoury. You can assemble a rifle and deam it ready to go without firing it. ( how many gun smiths fire the rifles they repair / build?) You can test fire it without testing for accuracy, and accuracy is a term that is open to interpretation and is only as good as the shooter. It is all in the detail.
If you make enough noise you may get your money back but most of what you have said Tassie is hearsay in relation to what you told your LGS. Maybe their customer service may accomodate your desires and change the rifle but I think you are pushing the Dunny bucket up hill.
Bill
marksman wrote:the guy in the Utube vid is Scott O'brien CEO of Steyr Arms, he's not just an American salesman
but even without Steyr CEO Scott O'bien's Utube Steyr rifle guarantee the consumer protection guarantee will work out because it doesn’t do what you asked for, it does not meet the specific purpose you asked for so it is unfit for purpose, a major problem
repair, replace or refund
good on you Tassie for not backing down on this as so many would have, which is the way the system is setup so that people will give up
I'm sure the lgs would have bought the rifle back off you for less than you paid to sell you another
bladeracer wrote:marksman wrote:the guy in the Utube vid is Scott O'brien CEO of Steyr Arms, he's not just an American salesman
but even without Steyr CEO Scott O'bien's Utube Steyr rifle guarantee the consumer protection guarantee will work out because it doesn’t do what you asked for, it does not meet the specific purpose you asked for so it is unfit for purpose, a major problem
repair, replace or refund
good on you Tassie for not backing down on this as so many would have, which is the way the system is setup so that people will give up
I'm sure the lgs would have bought the rifle back off you for less than you paid to sell you another
I'd be sending him an email as well, including a link to this thread, if I were him and seeing what we're seeing here, I'd be on the phone to Winchester Australia ASAP.
I look at it this way.
I paid $1500 for a rifle that isn't suitable, and they're giving me the run around.
I could cut it up with an angle grinder and I'm out $1500 - that's worst case. It's cost me a lot more than that just crashing a motorcycle at times, and I can't blame anybody but myself when that happens.
I could keep it and sink a lot more time and money into making it perform as I require of it, cost to me, a lot, and I might have a really nice rifle at the end of it, but one that is still only worth the price of a secondhand stock rifle.
I could keep it and use it for the tasks it is suitable for, and buy myself another rifle, cost to me is I have more rifles
I could sell it on to somebody that will love it, and buy myself a different rifle, cost to me maybe a few hundred bucks, and the problem no longer exists.
Or I could engage a lawyer and spend countless hours and dollars pursuing something that may never be resolved satisfactorily, hours and dollars that I would much rather spend on shooting. The lawyer will make more out of this than anybody else will, probably more than the rifle cost, but certainly more than either the dealer or the importer made on the sale.
I have one life, and I already burned up a bunch of hours trying to get this rifle to do what I want of it. Do I want to burn up a bunch more of my life dealing with people that have zero regard for me as a customer anyway? Would it a better use of my hours educating others to avoid dealing with these companies instead?
I understand that the company wants consumers like me, that don't think their company is worth five-cents of my time or effort to push them to give proper service and product So I applaud anybody putting their effort into keeping companies on their toes.
TassieTiger wrote:The lawyer is making very little - when he’s related by marriage The hours I spend on it are to me - most definitely educational (just look at what the more knowledgeable have contributed within this thread) and it’s very much worthy of my time because, at least in my humble opinion - big companies taking advantage of ppl is why we are in the poo with banks, in the poo with telcos, in the poo with big pharma, why we have insane speeding laws, etc etc etc etc - rightly / wrongly, I see it as a strike against what our fore fathers fought for.
By not seeing this through - more and more ppl get screwed over and the company makes more and more outrageous claims about their products and still more ppl get screwed over and so on...
Yep, for sure - I could take a few hundred dollar hit as you suggest, but why should the next bloke not get what he thinks he’s getting either ? or I could turn it to a safe queen and enjoy taking it up the ass....but, I don’t really like it. Hey - each to their own, I don’t judge.
As it stands at present, I’m still shooting all manner of rifles and having fun - IF I had the 06 back I’d be wasting a lot of time / money trying to get it to do something I now know it’s ynlikely to ever do. This thread alone, with 2500 views - will have no doubt put a question mark over some ppl buying a steyr and a HUGE question mark over steyrs after sales service.
If you google steyr accuracy 30/06 - this threadblissfully shows up.
As for your thoughts re this potentially not ever being resolved satisfactorily - I’m obviously confident that won’t be the case - $5 bet with ya ?
TassieTiger wrote:True. Unfortunately...
I’d love for them to put into print re steyrs response so prospective purchasers know what they are in for.
TassieTiger wrote:SO - major update.
Winchester has now offered to replace the rifle...
They haven’t made any other stipulations other than they believe this is over and above...
This is positive and a step forward but...
The problem is - if they replace like for like, it’s a lucky dip and I could find myself in the same situation.
So I’ve given them 3 options to now consider;
A fully tested and guaranteed replacement with proof of testing (180gn projectiles).
A full refund inclusive of ancillaries.
A credit with a further discount to a proven and guaranteed steyr platform - ie discounted upgrade.
Will now await again their response - I’m still fully prepared to formalise a complaint...but I think Winchester have a good chance to restore some faith here...
Tas.
TassieTiger wrote:SO - major update.
Winchester has now offered to replace the rifle...
They haven’t made any other stipulations other than they believe this is over and above...
This is positive and a step forward but...
The problem is - if they replace like for like, it’s a lucky dip and I could find myself in the same situation.
So I’ve given them 3 options to now consider;
A fully tested and guaranteed replacement with proof of testing (180gn projectiles).
A full refund inclusive of ancillaries.
A credit with a further discount to a proven and guaranteed steyr platform - ie discounted upgrade.
Will now await again their response - I’m still fully prepared to formalise a complaint...but I think Winchester have a good chance to restore some faith here...
Tas.
Oldbloke wrote:Full refund or insist they guarantee moa with 180g (in writting)
Then buy something they don't import.
Stix wrote:Oldbloke wrote:Full refund or insist they guarantee moa with 180g (in writting)
Then buy something they don't import.
Who you been dealing with there Tas...?