STEYR Confused with lack of accuracy 30-06

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Re: Confused with lack of accuracy 30-06

Post by bigfellascott » 18 Dec 2018, 8:23 pm

Might just need a good clean?
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Re: Confused with lack of accuracy 30-06

Post by Kumaabear » 10 Jan 2019, 10:21 am

Kind of curious as to what their findings will be. :unknown:

Have they gotten back to you at all yet, (I imagine probably not)
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Re: Confused with lack of accuracy 30-06

Post by TassieTiger » 10 Jan 2019, 4:28 pm

I followed up yesterday and today...apparently it’s possibly gone missing or in limbo transit...it’s not at lgs (sent it before Xmas) and Winchester advise they haven’t received it...
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Re: Confused with lack of accuracy 30-06

Post by bladeracer » 10 Jan 2019, 4:32 pm

TassieTiger wrote:I followed up yesterday and today...apparently it’s possibly gone missing or in limbo transit...it’s not at lgs (sent it before Xmas) and Winchester advise they haven’t received it...


Hopefully just because of the time of year. Bloody Border Force couldn't find my Mausers just before Christmas. When given the shipping numbers they didn't even know what they would do with them. I'm sure they just brought in some blow-ins while the real officers were partying :-)
Early January it was finally discovered that they were still sitting with Qantas.
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Re: Confused with lack of accuracy 30-06

Post by TassieTiger » 10 Jan 2019, 4:36 pm

It amazes me the bulldust needed to track and secure anything that mentions firearms but then crap like that can happen...

I told the customer service manager that a lot of additional info was on this forum and he replied that we won’t be looking and we don’t take any notice of forums...I thought - that is a pretty bloody silly (old) attitude...your customers are here...watching, reading...
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Re: Confused with lack of accuracy 30-06

Post by marksman » 11 Jan 2019, 1:02 pm

experiences I have had in the past is that the firearm would go to an authorised gunsmith nearest you
there are some very good gunsmiths in Tassie I don't see a need for the rifle to go anywhere else :unknown:
there are time factors in where the firearm is deemed lost by Australia post, I had a nightforce scope went missing 12 months ago
the sender will have tracking advise and know the last place it was scanned, I think it's 4 days before opening up an investigation and 30 days after it's last scan before they will say it is gone for good, the police will be all over them for this :crazy:
after that its up to the sender to be reimbursed by Australia post, if they got it insured :wtf: but it is not your worry
they have to look after you under Australian consumer law, you did not post it lgs did so its there problem
you may get a new rifle :clap: if you do I'm sure that it will be qc tested for you :thumbsup:
keep nipping at the senders heels :drinks:

I have seen a few of the winchester guys at shoots and understand they are salesmen but they cannot go off what is on a forum
they go by there gunsmith, these guys do not repair or diagnose firearm problems
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Re: Confused with lack of accuracy 30-06

Post by TassieTiger » 11 Jan 2019, 2:18 pm

Cheers for advice MM.
They are chasing again today...

I understand RE gunsmith vs forums But I am surprised that they were so dismissive of forums in entirety...as others have said, if I am looking for my next firearm...forums are where I’m looking for good / solid / real world advice. Surely, manufacturers can recognise this? Irvin my opinion...they should be.
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Re: Confused with lack of accuracy 30-06

Post by bigfellascott » 12 Jan 2019, 7:04 am

TassieTiger wrote:Cheers for advice MM.
They are chasing again today...

I understand RE gunsmith vs forums But I am surprised that they were so dismissive of forums in entirety...as others have said, if I am looking for my next firearm...forums are where I’m looking for good / solid / real world advice. Surely, manufacturers can recognise this? Irvin my opinion...they should be.


I don't blame them for not wanting to get involved in forums, way too much crap goes on when it comes to firearms shops and people bagging them out for this that and the other, plus they would have better things to do I would think than sit around on forums justifying why they do this that or the other, just not worth the dramas I wouldn't think.

There have been many firearms shops on forums and they generally don't bother hanging around long because of some of the reasons mentioned above. :drinks:
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Re: Confused with lack of accuracy 30-06

Post by TassieTiger » 12 Jan 2019, 7:41 am

Yeah - I don’t agree that they would be trying to answer or justify things - it would be too much. I’d say they are just a tool for a manufacturing co for research and similar.
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Re: Confused with lack of accuracy 30-06

Post by bigfellascott » 12 Jan 2019, 8:00 am

TassieTiger wrote:Yeah - I don’t agree that they would be trying to answer or justify things - it would be too much. I’d say they are just a tool for a manufacturing co for research and similar.


A lot of em get bagged out for bad service or this that and the other, whether it's justified or possibly a competitor who knows but certainly wouldn't be putting my business in such a position by getting into public slanging matches. :D
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Re: Confused with lack of accuracy 30-06

Post by Blr243 » 12 Jan 2019, 8:33 am

Thanks for the link tassie
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Re: Confused with lack of accuracy 30-06

Post by Bristles1 » 13 Jan 2019, 1:38 pm

Most 30-06s can be finicky with different loads, settle on a load, don't worry too much about how far it is from the lands etc, stick to the basics and have the rifle checked by a competent gunsmith to see if the above mentioned issues are there, trigger, bedding, loose scope mounts etc.

I would not think 50 shots is enough to cause that sort of inaccuracy, we shoot two hundred a night roo shooting and you can still hit a match head at 100 yds.

I think once you have the rifle checked over and sorted then buy some factory ammo and try it , eliminate the mechanical factors then eliminate the human factors. Then get a mate you know who can shoot to try it. Hope you get it shooting straight, great old caliber.
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Re: Confused with lack of accuracy 30-06

Post by TassieTiger » 29 Jan 2019, 2:38 pm

So for those that can recall - this 30-06 STEYR accuracy was being questioned out of the box...
It's now been 6 weeks and Winchester Vic have STILL not received the rifle for testing.

Many people warned me about the customer service that I might receive...I was hoping for something different.
So out of the 10 weeks I've actually owned this rifle, it has been sent back and forth between couriers for over 6 weeks between gun shops / winchester without anyone actually doing anything.

I'm so tempted to lodge a Aust consumer law complaint and just get a refund...I'll give them another week.
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Re: Confused with lack of accuracy 30-06

Post by SCJ429 » 29 Jan 2019, 5:07 pm

Patience Tiger.....
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Re: Confused with lack of accuracy 30-06

Post by Kaid » 30 Jan 2019, 7:02 am

I secured my LA101 in a vice thinking it would help and could not hit a A4 target at 100mts. Don't know why but my gun kicked to the right on every shot. Went back to a plain gun rest and that solved my problem.
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Re: Confused with lack of accuracy 30-06

Post by marksman » 30 Jan 2019, 9:25 am

TassieTiger wrote:So for those that can recall - this 30-06 STEYR accuracy was being questioned out of the box...
It's now been 6 weeks and Winchester Vic have STILL not received the rifle for testing.

Many people warned me about the customer service that I might receive...I was hoping for something different.
So out of the 10 weeks I've actually owned this rifle, it has been sent back and forth between couriers for over 6 weeks between gun shops / winchester without anyone actually doing anything.

I'm so tempted to lodge a Aust consumer law complaint and just get a refund...I'll give them another week.


get the information from the sender, they have the receipt that has the tracking number that can tell you where it was last scanned
if it hasn't been scanned for 4 or more days the sender can start an investigation, after 30 days the firearm is deemed lost and the sender will be compensated for the lost firearm as long as he insured it :unknown: but that is his problem not yours
6 weeks is way to long without any information :thumbsdown: I don't get why they want it in Vic as there are very good competent gunsmiths in Tassie
I would be having a good talk with the sender and if you are not satisfied you have every right to ask for a refund :drinks:
auspost.com.au/receiving/missing-damaged-or-delayed-items
Last edited by marksman on 30 Jan 2019, 9:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Confused with lack of accuracy 30-06

Post by TassieTiger » 30 Jan 2019, 9:29 am

It was sent by original firearm shop, but no one picked it up at Winchester so it was returned-the originator then said, I’m not paying to send again, so Winchester has to arrange courier, then fire arm shop took a week to repackage, now it’s back in transit again to Winchester vic....and round we go...grab yourself a girl and doccee do...
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Re: Confused with lack of accuracy 30-06

Post by Oldbloke » 30 Jan 2019, 2:32 pm

What a cok up. Boy are you having a bad week.
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Re: Confused with lack of accuracy 30-06

Post by TassieTiger » 06 Feb 2019, 2:06 pm

So customer service manager has finally got my steyr rifle to their gun smith for testing with some interesting results. This is what the gun smith wrote back to Winchester:


“The Rifle has been fitted with a Meopta scope , bore solvent used to remove fouling and test fired.
100 m using Super X 180 g , 2.5 “ group x 3 shots .
100 m group using Super X 150 g , under 1 “ 3 shots
It’s shooting very well with the 150 g ,
Unfortunately I can’t change how it shoots with heavier pills.”

So the question now is - is the rifle meeting advertised claims?

My argument is that the “general” base projectile weight for the 06 is the 180gn projectile (I have a 260 that groups 140’s 1/2 Moa) so clearly didn’t purchase to shoot 150’s...so if it’s shooting 2.5inxh groups via 3 shots with 180’s - with a lead sled via accredited gun smith - then its a long way away from meeting advertised claims.
Thoughts or advice??

Update - customer service manager has advised he is putting in advice to Steyr direct that rifle is under performing - he said they are usually very fast and good RE any issues. So we shall play the wait game again...
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Re: Confused with lack of accuracy 30-06

Post by marksman » 07 Feb 2019, 8:38 am

it really isn't doing what you want it to or expected is it Tassie :unknown:

there smith did very basic test's to the rifle and could not get it to shoot the 180's, he is no precision guru though (I do know who he is)
the problem will be the barrel twist rate, the 30-06 should have a 1 in 10" twist to shoot up to 220 grain bullets
there may have been a mix up with the barrel used at the factory, some different makers use a 1 in 12" twist for there 308 barrels for up to 170"s
I couldn't find what the Steyr barrels twist rates are :unknown:
but anyway you want to shoot the 180's and it wont so really what do you want to do about it Tassie

I would also like to ad that IMHO you will not get good results shooting a kicker like a 30-06 in a lead sled, very agricultural thinking :wtf:
and that the “general” base projectile weight for the 06 is the 180gn projectile is totally wrong, the 300wm was made to shoot the 180's efficiently
the ballistics of a 30-06 shooting 180 grain projectiles is shocking,
it's something you would use at close range to thump the sh!t out of a big animal hoping to stop it in its tracks

here is part of the history written about the 30-06 from ballistic studies web site showing what it was made to shoot :thumbsup:

"In 1905, Germany adopted a light 154 grain bullet for the 8x57 at an extremely high velocity of 2890fps. The U.S, keen to embrace new technologies, immediately set about upgrading the .30-03 cartridge. A more aerodynamic 150 grain pointed projectile was created and along with this, the .30-03 case was shortened by .07 of an inch (1.8mm) to optimize the new bullet design. This was the birth of the .30 US cartridge of 1906 known today as the .30-06. The Springfield rifle maintained its original designation as the 1903 Springfield. The .30-06 remained the principle military cartridge of the US for 50 years

After the change to the .30 Ball 150 grain bullet, all military 1903 Springfield rifles were recalled, the barrels cut back by one thread turn and were re-chambered for the modified cartridge. Barrel length of the final rifle configuration was 24”. Velocity of the 150 grain .30 Ball was 2700fps, recorded at 78ft (le Boulenge Chronograph) True muzzle velocity would have been 2780fps."

the above is a small history for the millitary rifle, yours is a hunting rifle

it really is your call Tassie, Steyr need to come back with what is a reasonable expectation for the twist rate on your 30-06 rifle
so what range of projectile weights do they expect the rifle to shoot
good luck with it anyway :drinks:
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Re: Confused with lack of accuracy 30-06

Post by SCJ429 » 07 Feb 2019, 10:48 am

marksman wrote:and that the “general” base projectile weight for the 06 is the 180gn projectile is totally wrong, the 300wm was made to shoot the 180's efficiently
the ballistics of a 30-06 shooting 180 grain projectiles is shocking,
it's something you would use at close range to thump the sh!t out of a big animal hoping to stop it in its tracks

:drinks:


I am not sure why you say the ballistics using a 180 grain pill is shocking. You can move this projectile easily at or above 2800 fps which is respectable.
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Re: Confused with lack of accuracy 30-06

Post by TassieTiger » 07 Feb 2019, 11:20 am

marksman wrote:it really isn't doing what you want it to or expected is it Tassie :unknown:

there smith did very basic test's to the rifle and could not get it to shoot the 180's, he is no precision guru though (I do know who he is)
the problem will be the barrel twist rate, the 30-06 should have a 1 in 10" twist to shoot up to 220 grain bullets
there may have been a mix up with the barrel used at the factory, some different makers use a 1 in 12" twist for there 308 barrels for up to 170"s
I couldn't find what the Steyr barrels twist rates are :unknown:
but anyway you want to shoot the 180's and it wont so really what do you want to do about it Tassie

I would also like to ad that IMHO you will not get good results shooting a kicker like a 30-06 in a lead sled, very agricultural thinking :wtf:
and that the “general” base projectile weight for the 06 is the 180gn projectile is totally wrong, the 300wm was made to shoot the 180's efficiently
the ballistics of a 30-06 shooting 180 grain projectiles is shocking,
it's something you would use at close range to thump the sh!t out of a big animal hoping to stop it in its tracks

here is part of the history written about the 30-06 from ballistic studies web site showing what it was made to shoot :thumbsup:

"In 1905, Germany adopted a light 154 grain bullet for the 8x57 at an extremely high velocity of 2890fps. The U.S, keen to embrace new technologies, immediately set about upgrading the .30-03 cartridge. A more aerodynamic 150 grain pointed projectile was created and along with this, the .30-03 case was shortened by .07 of an inch (1.8mm) to optimize the new bullet design. This was the birth of the .30 US cartridge of 1906 known today as the .30-06. The Springfield rifle maintained its original designation as the 1903 Springfield. The .30-06 remained the principle military cartridge of the US for 50 years

After the change to the .30 Ball 150 grain bullet, all military 1903 Springfield rifles were recalled, the barrels cut back by one thread turn and were re-chambered for the modified cartridge. Barrel length of the final rifle configuration was 24”. Velocity of the 150 grain .30 Ball was 2700fps, recorded at 78ft (le Boulenge Chronograph) True muzzle velocity would have been 2780fps."

the above is a small history for the millitary rifle, yours is a hunting rifle

it really is your call Tassie, Steyr need to come back with what is a reasonable expectation for the twist rate on your 30-06 rifle
so what range of projectile weights do they expect the rifle to shoot
good luck with it anyway :drinks:


Appreciate the advice and of course - your right.
As a relatively new shooter, you take advice on face value.
My LGS sold me a wonderful 260 that shoots fantastic - 120’s and 140’s.
When I went in there next to buy - I explained I wanted a light weight carry 06 that would shoot sub Moa with what I deemed to be heavier projectiles. They new I already had steyr and tikka - and they offered the 06 pro hunter as an option, as this would apparently do what I wanted.
Every person I’ve spoken with who owns an 06 says the same thing to me at least, if your not shooting 180’s at least, then you might as well have bought a 308 - because the extra charge is wasted...I don’t know the steadfast truth on this but it looks like an accurate statement from with the books I have.
A 2.5 inch group at 100 yards means I would be limiting any distance hunting with a 30/06 to...well...100 yards for fear of an unethical shot!

To do...? if steyr cannot give me a rifle that shoots as advertised, then I’d like a refund / or fix and I’ll buy a rifle like M18 or tikka that will.

I’ve just heard back from Steyr and I’m quite bamboozled by their response. I’m seeking clarification before I post up the exact details of their letter - but if I understand it correctly, steyr apparently do not test and do NOT wanrrant any accuracy claims on ANY rifles that are under a certain dollar value ($1500) being referred to as a budget rifle. I hope I have this incorrect - if this was true then there are certainly a number of implications and why even take the rifle back for testing...and as you yourself showed me MM - their online videos certainly contradict this...
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Re: Confused with lack of accuracy 30-06

Post by SCJ429 » 07 Feb 2019, 11:53 am

All is not lost if they give you back your rifle. You can work with your gunsmith to sort out the trigger, bed it, check the condition of the barrel and crown. The barrel may need some lapping or dramatic fire lapping. Then do some load testing with some know performing bullets, I would try Berger Target or Sierra Match Kings.
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Re: Confused with lack of accuracy 30-06

Post by bladeracer » 07 Feb 2019, 12:54 pm

TassieTiger wrote:So customer service manager has finally got my steyr rifle to their gun smith for testing with some interesting results. This is what the gun smith wrote back to Winchester:


“The Rifle has been fitted with a Meopta scope , bore solvent used to remove fouling and test fired.
100 m using Super X 180 g , 2.5 “ group x 3 shots .
100 m group using Super X 150 g , under 1 “ 3 shots
It’s shooting very well with the 150 g ,
Unfortunately I can’t change how it shoots with heavier pills.”

So the question now is - is the rifle meeting advertised claims?

My argument is that the “general” base projectile weight for the 06 is the 180gn projectile (I have a 260 that groups 140’s 1/2 Moa) so clearly didn’t purchase to shoot 150’s...so if it’s shooting 2.5inxh groups via 3 shots with 180’s - with a lead sled via accredited gun smith - then its a long way away from meeting advertised claims.
Thoughts or advice??

Update - customer service manager has advised he is putting in advice to Steyr direct that rifle is under performing - he said they are usually very fast and good RE any issues. So we shall play the wait game again...


Have you measured the twist rate? Although I would expect a much larger spread than 2.5" if it were the twist rate causing instability.
I tried to make some sense of their website but I can't find any specification of twist rate. I tried Google but couldn't find anybody that had actually measure the twist rate. It's generally listed as 10"-twist.

I've read that people shooting monolithic's step down a level over what they would be using in a jacketed-lead bullet, so a 150gn mono should give you similar terminal performance to a 180gn jacketed bullet? But the 150gn mono is probably just as long as the 180gn anyway, which won't help if it is a twist rate problem. A 10"-twist barrel should stabilise bullets heavier than 180gn without any problems. I agree with what has been said, the .30-06 is optimal for 150gn bullets, but it should still shoot heavier bullets with good accuracy.

I would try some different heavier bullets to see if something does group okay. As far as I can tell the Winchester Super-X looks like a blunt flat-base soft-nose bullet, so it'd already be on the short side for 180gn bullets.

What contour is the barrel, maybe it gets a bit of a whip happening with heavier bullets?
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Re: Confused with lack of accuracy 30-06

Post by marksman » 07 Feb 2019, 5:12 pm

very disappointing :thumbsdown: good work by the salesman, false advertising and you get a lucky dip rifle
I would still look further into it as you have told the LGS what you wanted and were under the impression that what you were buying was capable
at least now you have a gunsmiths report that says he could not get the 180's to shoot
you only bought the rifle because you wanted to shoot heavier bullets because you already have a 260 that shoots 140's very well

if all else fails you can try to tweak the rifle and reload but it may still be fruitless as it may not shoot 180's to your satisfaction ever :unknown:

what your mates have said about shooting the 180 grain bullets, the 30-06 and the 308 is not really true the 30-06 is a step up in velocity and energy with the same bullet being used but if you really want to shoot the 180's effectively get a 300wm or 300wsm
I would lean more toward the 300wsm because of oal issues with the 300wm being made in long action instead of magnum action
anyway Tassie I hope it all works out for you :drinks:
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Re: Confused with lack of accuracy 30-06

Post by Member-Deleted » 07 Feb 2019, 6:01 pm

G'day Tassie mate haven't you had some drama with this rifle so here goes mate if it was me I would ask myself ,'' would I be happy with this rifle now after all this
trouble'' ? It's obviously not what you were wanting by not shooting 180gr up, They sold you a rifle that was supposed to do so and you have proof from a GS that it
doesn't ,I can see where you are coming from you don't want a big thumper you want a 30-06 that shoots 180gr up so I would ask the gun shop that sold you the rifle
to exchange it to something more closer to what you want and asked for , if that fails then see if they will trade it on another rifle even a thumper 300 if you wish
even if you have to add a little cash to get another brand then if that fails I would be seeking legal advice and tell them so
If all is correct on what you told them when you purchased the rifle about wanting to shoot heavy projectiles then I feel as though they may have unloaded the rifle onto you Sellers should not make those mistakes and if it was the rifle, then they should do all they can to remedy the issue but they don't seem to want to which leads me to
think of an unload
Mate hope it all ends well for you I do think the Gun shop will come up with something that will benefit both parties although you may have to add a little cash and get another brand of rifle I would just to be on the safe side and i'd get a 1-9 twist if its 30-06
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Re: Confused with lack of accuracy 30-06

Post by bigrich » 07 Feb 2019, 7:59 pm

sad to hear the results taz . others have already given good advice , i myself lean towards GDB advice and get another rifle, as that rifle in your mind will be tainted from now on . i have a mate with a 308 steyr that is silly accurate, i had a sako 308 that didn't shoot 150's well at all, but would make one hole with 165's . it can be a lucky dip even with a "qaulity" brand . any manufactured product has the potential to be a dud due to human error or just plain dumb luck during the manufactering process . i hope you can get a good result to your satisfaction in the long run taz

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Re: Confused with lack of accuracy 30-06

Post by TassieTiger » 08 Feb 2019, 3:41 am

All good advice - thank you.

It has almost been something of an experiment to see how the companies involved - respond to a situation like this.

The lgs won’t see any more of my money due to their - complete lack of interest once they had my initial money.
Winchester cust service guy - appears to be caught in the middle and appears to be doing what he can to smooth things over...but - they are the wholesaler so, they by default, are involved.
Steyr - here is the real disappointment.

Given that tikka, Mauser and similar offer accuracy guarantees for the same or even less $$$ - who now would buy a steyr and take the risk knowing, that they will not support their products?
If I don’t hear back soon I’ll post up their full / actual response to me - it’s quite amazing to think a $1500 and under rifle is considered by them to be...well crap really - they do ZERO testing and have ZERO guarantee because in their opinion it’s a budget rifle. It might be a budget rifle - but surely, they’d be compelled to advise consumers that their heavily advertised MOA guarantee either does not apply or is conditional guarantee...Crazy for what I thought was a “premium” company....

I’m currently away with work but when I get back next week, I’ll be lodging a consumer affair complaint re aust consumer guarantee laws - my position being the rifle is not fit for the purpose it was sold and false advertising.
I’ll also be starting a thread entitled STEYR advice and just advise new comers of my findings to help alert prospective new buyers to the risks they may face when buying a budget steyr.
Heck, I may even send Steyrs response to SSAA and see if they might publish a letter to help educate new buyers - I’m sure I’m not the only one who has purchased a rifle that hasn’t performed and then thought...okay...now what?

I’m treating this like a challenge now...let see how we go. Lol.

I’d like to just add in here - a big thanks to everyone who has this far supported me in this process. Whether I succeed in making any in roads is yet to be determined but hopefully, my pathway might help educate / add to other peoples knowledge along the way.
Cheers.
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
TassieTiger
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Re: Confused with lack of accuracy 30-06

Post by bigrich » 08 Feb 2019, 4:42 am

Just be careful about what you say and post these days taz with regards to the legal aspects. I would’ve expected a better attitude from steyr as well. I know a lot of people on this forum will probably be hesitant about buying their products now ......
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bigrich
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Queensland

Re: Confused with lack of accuracy 30-06

Post by Oldbloke » 08 Feb 2019, 3:58 pm

My take from this and many other treads is that the firearms industry is no different to any other.

Pump out product fast, forget quality control or the customer. Get the $ ASAP. Worry about fhe customer when it gets serious and they go to consumer affairs.

Welcome to capitalism..
The greatest invention in the history of man is beer.
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Member. SFFP, Shooters Union.
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Hunt safe.
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Oldbloke
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