Does brass brand affect accuracy?

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Does brass brand affect accuracy?

Post by Kelsey Cooter » 18 Jan 2019, 10:05 pm

A bloke told me he gets better accuracy from remington brass in his 223.
Hes not anal about his prep, just full length size, trim and deburr if needed.

I notice you gents are always talking about pros and cons of different brass, what brass you love and hate.
But will different brands give you different accuracy?
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Re: Does brass brand affect accuracy?

Post by bladeracer » 18 Jan 2019, 10:19 pm

Kelsey Cooter wrote:A bloke told me he gets better accuracy from remington brass in his 223.
Hes not anal about his prep, just full length size, trim and deburr if needed.

I notice you gents are always talking about pros and cons of different brass, what brass you love and hate.
But will different brands give you different accuracy?


It can, particularly at long ranges. At closer hunting ranges you can probably ignore it, unless you're running near pressure limits.
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Re: Does brass brand affect accuracy?

Post by Rod_outbak » 19 Jan 2019, 7:53 am

MY thoughts:

1). My idea of accuracy centres around consistency; the more uniform I can produce my reloads, the more likely I can place them on the same spot repeatedly. Once I'm hitting the same spot, I can then dial the scope in to put them where I want them.

2). There isnt much brass that cant be 'massaged' into being decent brass(**), but the better brands (Lapua, Norma, Sako etc) tend to require less work to have them as uniform as possible. I also find the better quality brass varies a lot less when I weigh them.
I COULD be imagining this, but I find the Lapua brass especially, to be better 'finished'(??) than much of the cheaper stuff. When I say 'finished', I mean less sharp edges, and no rough spots on them at all.
Some of my most long-lasting .308 brass has turned out to be some Highland (PPU) brass, which needed a lot of trimming and chamfering to get right, but seems to have lasted really well.

3). Having the brass batched by brand, helps me ensure I'm producing the most consistent ammo I can. Part of my QC process, I weigh the loaded cartridges, and different brands weigh different. Even different batches of the same brand (as in different number of reloads) will produce different weights over time.
So, having my brass batched by brand (at least) and each particular batch kept together for their useful life (my preference) has been handy in ensuring the most consistent loads I can.

I dont load for target work; if I did, I would be more anal about my case prep than I am now.
However, I expect I am more anal than most hunters for my case-prep, but I also know my ammo is consistent enough for me to know that pokking things out beyond 400 metres isnt a waste of my effort.
When I was younger, I was convinced that accurately pokking things beyond~150 metres was the work of the 'Dark Arts', and beyond the skills of us mere mortals. The past 8 years has taught me that I was simply a freaking poor 'magic' student back then...

(**) I've had bad results from Remington 7mm-08 brass that I bought new about 3 years ago. Damn stuff has failed by the third reload, and yet I have Federal brass that is only showing occasional failures on it's 6th reload.

My 2 cents..
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Re: Does brass brand affect accuracy?

Post by SCJ429 » 19 Jan 2019, 8:15 am

Every single competition Benchrest shooter will be using Lapua brass. This speaks volumes. That is not to say with some basic prep that you cannot get some excellent results like Rod explained. I shot under 1/4 inch with 204 Hornady brass which is not known for its consistency

Back in the eighties Remington made some of the best brass around, any manufacture can do it. It comes down to the amount of Q&A you build into the process. I like ADI for cheap brass, it is at least as good as any other American made brass. The two world leaders are Lapua and Norma who make brass for other brands such as Sako and Tikka.
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Re: Does brass brand affect accuracy?

Post by NAHMINT II » 20 Jan 2019, 5:34 pm

Unless you are shooting a competition rifle that can take advantage of every possible fraction of an inch of accuracy,like weighing and c.c ing each case, turning necks, flash hole reaming then using competition projectiles, its a lot of work for nout !!! in my 6.5 x58, several .30-06 and .300 win mag....I shoot Winchester,remington and Hornady brass.not a fan of Federal.....seeing how much water (C.C.) each case holds,there is almost no differeace between brands...for hunting or target/plinking.....you will find all shoot just fine.
in reloading for over 50 years of my 60+ year hunting career,this is what I have found......
I do a fair amount of revolver target shooting in 38special.... in that calibre,i like FEDERAL NON PLATED BRASS..in 44 and 45 colt, Winchester,remington and federal
all are equal in the accuracy department.
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Re: Does brass brand affect accuracy?

Post by southeast varmiter » 20 Jan 2019, 5:40 pm

To answer your question in one sentence. Yes. Case volume varies within cheap brass brands creating different pressures (muzzle velocity) with same load and projectiles.
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Re: Does brass brand affect accuracy?

Post by JimTom » 20 Jan 2019, 6:35 pm

Mate I did an experiment a while back between Lapua and ADI brass in my .308.
I couldn’t tell the difference however some cases have thicker walls then others and physics will say that it will change the pressure, albeit ever so slightly.
There may be extreme examples of this between cheap and expensive brass I guess.
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Re: Does brass brand affect accuracy?

Post by SCJ429 » 20 Jan 2019, 8:28 pm

Mix up your cases for a group and watch your ES go to hell. I like to use cheap cases when I go hunting because I have been known to loose a few but they all do better after some prep work.
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Re: Does brass brand affect accuracy?

Post by Bruiser64 » 20 Jan 2019, 11:41 pm

I think you will find that a lot of things beyond brass brands also affect accuracy. Here is a link to a series of articles that go into a lot of depth about ballistics.

http://appliedballisticsllc.com/ballist ... /articles/

As you will see it is a complex area. Particularly if you are interested in the tightest groups at very long range. How particular you want to be depends upon what your goals are. I am generally shooting Roos, rabbits and foxes under a spotlight at ranges of 150 metres or less. My accuracy demands are not the same as a long range competition bench rest shooter.
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Re: Does brass brand affect accuracy?

Post by TassieTiger » 21 Jan 2019, 4:43 am

Bought some 260 brass recently - 100x lapua and 100x Remington.
Lapua was $200 vs $79 for Remington.
To look at - night and day differences...the Remington is a basic, almost dirty brass, the lapua is a thing of beauty, precision, almost jewel like.

The measurements of the lapua are all within silly tolerances, the Remington + or - 1mm...

The lapua brass is annealed, Remington is not.

Primer pockets are uniform across lapua whilst I found brass swarf hanging internally from some Remington primer holes.

The lapua leading edge has a slight bevel ready for projectile acceptance whilst some of the remingtons could be used to cut really small cookies lol.

On this occasion, in my exp at least (and not always being the case), I’ve Gotten what I paid for.
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Re: Does brass brand affect accuracy?

Post by bladeracer » 21 Jan 2019, 5:20 am

TassieTiger wrote:The lapua brass is annealed, Remington is not.


Although possible this is unlikely. You;ll find that Remington simply polish out the annealing colouring - the brass is annealed.
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Re: Does brass brand affect accuracy?

Post by wanneroo » 21 Jan 2019, 6:35 am

Once Remington was bought out by the Freedom Group their quality went in the crapper. It's a company barely holding on right now. I find their 9mm is the only brass I have issues with.

I would like to see a scientific test done to see if things like flash hole uniforming and neck turning actually make any difference.
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Re: Does brass brand affect accuracy?

Post by TassieTiger » 21 Jan 2019, 8:00 am

bladeracer wrote:
TassieTiger wrote:The lapua brass is annealed, Remington is not.


Although possible this is unlikely. You;ll find that Remington simply polish out the annealing colouring - the brass is annealed.


Really ? The way the rem brass came out of the packet, it was pretty ratty...certainly not polished...I would have thought they'd like to advertise the annealing if it was there...?
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Re: Does brass brand affect accuracy?

Post by bladeracer » 21 Jan 2019, 8:41 am

TassieTiger wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
TassieTiger wrote:The lapua brass is annealed, Remington is not.


Although possible this is unlikely. You;ll find that Remington simply polish out the annealing colouring - the brass is annealed.


Really ? The way the rem brass came out of the packet, it was pretty ratty...certainly not polished...I would have thought they'd like to advertise the annealing if it was there...?


It all has to be annealed or it wouldn't hold a bullet. Most companies polish the brass after annealing for aesthetics, some prefer to leave the annealing visible, like Norma.
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Re: Does brass brand affect accuracy?

Post by Bruiser64 » 21 Jan 2019, 10:28 am

I found this video very interesting. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=g2FrV4T6OTE

He has a number of short introductory videos on a range of long range shooting topics. Clearly the take away is developing a consistent load is important. In answer to the original post, it would appear that for long range shooting consistency is AN important component of long range precision. Use of a quality, precision chronograph to check the muzzle velocity of your handloads would appear to be necessary, otherwise you are just guessing. The reason being errors or inconsistency will be magnified as the range increases.
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Re: Does brass brand affect accuracy?

Post by Kelsey Cooter » 21 Jan 2019, 11:26 am

Bruiser64 wrote:I found this video very interesting. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=g2FrV4T6OTE

He has a number of short introductory videos on a range of long range shooting topics. Clearly the take away is developing a consistent load is important. In answer to the original post, it would appear that for long range shooting consistency is AN important component of long range precision. Use of a quality, precision chronograph to check the muzzle velocity of your handloads would appear to be necessary, otherwise you are just guessing. The reason being errors or inconsistency will be magnified as the range increases.


When you say the inconsistencys will be magnified as range increases, are you just talking about the fact moa increases in measurement, or will the group size in moa actually increase, for example from say half moa to 1.5 moa
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Re: Does brass brand affect accuracy?

Post by marksman » 21 Jan 2019, 12:49 pm

anyone who says that brass is brass just the price is different is kidding themselves period :thumbsdown:
before you decide if you are wasting your time by investing in quality brass you have to have a benchmark of what you expect from it
if you are happy with 1 moa plus at 100 yards then go for the cheaper stuff, you probably only shoot chest shots that far max anyway :unknown:
but if you want precision at range you will invest at minimum your time and effort into making the cases as consistent and straight as you can
there is a reason that precision shooters use lapua and dont worry I rate some other brands bought cheaper as good once match prepped and sorted
if you really want to know if someone gives good advise look at his targets
a gong shooter does not need the precision a group shooter does :drinks: pick a benchmark then work towards getting it consistently :thumbsup:
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Re: Does brass brand affect accuracy?

Post by marksman » 21 Jan 2019, 12:55 pm

Kelsey Cooter wrote:
Bruiser64 wrote:I found this video very interesting. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=g2FrV4T6OTE

He has a number of short introductory videos on a range of long range shooting topics. Clearly the take away is developing a consistent load is important. In answer to the original post, it would appear that for long range shooting consistency is AN important component of long range precision. Use of a quality, precision chronograph to check the muzzle velocity of your handloads would appear to be necessary, otherwise you are just guessing. The reason being errors or inconsistency will be magnified as the range increases.


When you say the inconsistencys will be magnified as range increases, are you just talking about the fact moa increases in measurement, or will the group size in moa actually increase, for example from say half moa to 1.5 moa


the inconsistencys will be magnified as range increases :thumbsup:
eg.. shooting lower because of increased volume in the case so less pressure would mean more way drop sooner as range increases,
its not just your group would would enlarge as distance increases :drinks:
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