Does brass brand affect accuracy?

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Re: Does brass brand affect accuracy?

Post by Jäger » 21 Jan 2019, 3:35 pm

marksman wrote:
there is a reason that precision shooters use lapua


Yeah, for my chosen caliber, the very popular 308, a certain gun shop every now and again does the Lapua at a very good price and it's a no brainer to buy the stuff if I have some other things to get to spread the freight.
It really doesn't work out that expensive over the life of the cartridges.

I think my last lot of Lapua brass was cheaper than some of the other brands locally.
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Re: Does brass brand affect accuracy?

Post by Kelsey Cooter » 21 Jan 2019, 4:20 pm

marksman wrote:anyone who says that brass is brass just the price is different is kidding themselves period :thumbsdown:

there is a reason that precision shooters use lapua and dont worry I rate some other brands bought cheaper as good once match prepped and sorted


Do you still need to match prep and sort lapua?
What are the other brands you rate?
Where does adi brass sit in terms of quality?
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Re: Does brass brand affect accuracy?

Post by Kelsey Cooter » 21 Jan 2019, 4:21 pm

:lol: I feel like I have a never ending list of questions when it comes to reloading :lol:
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Re: Does brass brand affect accuracy?

Post by Rod_outbak » 21 Jan 2019, 5:06 pm

My opinion:-

Kesley, are you planning to shooting targets with them, or hunting?

Lapua brass is some of the best you can buy; nicely finished and VERY consistent.
Very rare you need to do much (if anything) to Lapua brass to be ready to load it.
[AND: you get a really handy box with every 100 rounds!]

Norma brass seems to be much the same as far as quality as the Lapua(Though often harder to find at times).
[And they just come in a plastic bag...]

ADI/OSA brass seems to be not too far behind; consistent and well-finished.
Mightnt be quite as finished as Lapua, but pretty darn close, and usually available.
When I'm weighing completed/reloaded OSA/ADI .223 brass cartridges, they rarely vary in total weight by more than a few grains.
[Which I find freaking astounding, considering the variances in powder, projectiles, etc]

Winchester, Hornady(##), Remington(**) and Federal(!!) brass are all decent enough, but require a lot more prep work to remove sharp edges, trim to the same length, etc etc.. After a bit more initial prep work, these cases seem to come up fairly consistently (Plenty good enough for hunting), but I find they have a higher failure rate, and you never seem to get them quite as finished as the Lapua brass.
As others have touched upon; I found Remington brass to be quick to tarnish, and not anywhere near as finished, even in the factory cartridges. I bought about 200 150Gn Express cartridges for the .308 about 6 years ago, and I've bought about 200 factory 80Gn SP cartridges for the .243, and they dont seem to finish the cases as well as other manufacturers. I'm currently working through a tin of .243 OSA 87Gn V-Max cartridges, and that brass is much better finished than the loaded Remingtons.

(##) The Hornady 165(?)gn match ammo that I bought early on for the first .308 (~2012) all had crimped primers. Bit of a bugger getting them out. The brass prepped up fine once I got the old primers out, and tidied up the primer pockets. Factory ammo that is expected to go into a gas gun like an AR, will often have crimped primers.

(!!) The Federal 55gn SP .223 ammo I bought July 2018 had crimped primers as well; likely for a gas gun. Once the primer pockets were reamed and prepped, the cases seem to have come up fine, but I am yet to load them.

(**) - I had 100 new Remington 7mm-08 brass that prepped up perfectly, and failed after 2nd loading, as about 30% had primer pockets that couldnt hold a primer any more (drop out). I had ~300 Federal and Winchester brass that I was running in the 7mm-08 that is onto it's 6th loading, and failures are still below 5%. That Federal brass had a reputation for being prone to splitting cases, and whilst I've had the odd one, I havent lost 5% in 6 reloadings.

And FINALLY: The Highland brass. This stuff has needed the most of my case prep on the first reload; I found the cases to be all over the shop in length, needed the primer pockets uniformed, and there were quite a few that I simply wasnt happy with, and binned. However, given I started with a couple of hundred, I think I ended up with about 180 cases that have been reloaded about 7 times in the .308 so far, and have proven to be really reliable brass. I do note that of all of my .308 brass, this stuff varies the most in loaded weight. I'm yet to have one fail from old age(case separation etc), though, whereas some of the younger Federal brass has failed after the 5th loading. And it retains it's luster a LOT longer than the Remington brass.

Thats my experience to date.
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Re: Does brass brand affect accuracy?

Post by Kelsey Cooter » 21 Jan 2019, 5:23 pm

I don't actually shoot competition's or go to a range or anything but targets at home, and hunting/culling. my howa 223 shoots 3/4 moa out to around 250m with osa factory rounds, and I've just started reloading with super roos, with 25.4gr of 2208 I've got them shooting 20mm groups at 100m, but would like to get that tighter.

I also use the osa brass to load 80gr MK for my wifes ruger precision, I've got it shooting a 5shot group 12mm@100m but then when I go out to 300 its around 70 or 80mm groups. (I know theres a large list of variables that could be causing this)

I've got around 600 osa .223 brass from buying a ammo tin a few years ago.

I've just started reloading 308 with ppu brass, don't have alot of it so thinking of buying new brass in the near future, hence why I'm looking at brands
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Re: Does brass brand affect accuracy?

Post by Rod_outbak » 21 Jan 2019, 5:46 pm

If you can afford it, the Lapua or the Norma will require the least amount of prep/checking.

The PPU (Highland / NNY) brass will work just fine, but needs a bit more work to get it tidied up.

I'm working through loading up another few hundred .223 OSA cartridges for our Howa 1500. I have about 400 cases prepped, and 100 of them primed, but today has turned out to be a bust in getting them loaded up. Spent a few hours cleaning all the dust out of the Howa; overseer sheepishly admits he hadnt realised how much dust the 4-wheeler throws around when you are carrying a rifle on a sling. I've got to go to town tomorrow morning, but I hope I'll get another 100 loaded up tomorrow night.
We are using 24.5gns of Benchmark 2 behind a 55gn Z-Max pill. Sighting the rifle in for the overseer in late September, I was grouping ~18mm @100 metres.
I didnt bother going past that; we'd need to upgrade the scope and do a few other things to get much better.
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Re: Does brass brand affect accuracy?

Post by marksman » 22 Jan 2019, 12:12 pm

Kelsey Cooter wrote:
marksman wrote:anyone who says that brass is brass just the price is different is kidding themselves period :thumbsdown:

there is a reason that precision shooters use lapua and dont worry I rate some other brands bought cheaper as good once match prepped and sorted


Do you still need to match prep and sort lapua?
What are the other brands you rate?
Where does adi brass sit in terms of quality?


I would say you at least need to check with any cases, I do match prep everything, lapua/norma included, OCD really bad at times :lol:
I rate the adi cases highly although I have heard others bag them,
they are thicker than some but like everything it needs to be looked at as an individual thing and not assumed that it will be the same as something else
with a good tight chamber I have had really good results with winchester cases (you dont want case bulge) and use ppu with good results

Rod's info is very informative :drinks:
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Re: Does brass brand affect accuracy?

Post by Kelsey Cooter » 22 Jan 2019, 12:38 pm

marksman wrote:
Kelsey Cooter wrote:
marksman wrote:anyone who says that brass is brass just the price is different is kidding themselves period :thumbsdown:

there is a reason that precision shooters use lapua and dont worry I rate some other brands bought cheaper as good once match prepped and sorted


Do you still need to match prep and sort lapua?
What are the other brands you rate?
Where does adi brass sit in terms of quality?


I would say you at least need to check with any cases, I do match prep everything, lapua/norma included, OCD really bad at times :lol:
I rate the adi cases highly although I have heard others bag them,
they are thicker than some but like everything it needs to be looked at as an individual thing and not assumed that it will be the same as something else
with a good tight chamber I have had really good results with winchester cases (you dont want case bulge) and use ppu with good results

Rod's info is very informative :drinks:


Ok good to know. I havent yet got the lyman case prep kit I intend on buying but will grab it in the near future. (I got distracted and bought another pistol instead)

Could you give me a quick run down on everything you do when you match prep your cases?
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Re: Does brass brand affect accuracy?

Post by bigfellascott » 22 Jan 2019, 1:12 pm

I would say quality brass is more important from a precision target shooting standpoint, but for general hunting it's a waste of time and money, same goes for all that case prep work where it's really not going to make any real difference in real hunting situations where distances aren't measured, time to take a shot can be just a second or two, often there's no real quality rest options at hand, not time to get your breathing right, stuff around worrying about wind etc, it's more spot something, check to make sure there's nothing behind the target that may be an issue and if all ok get the aim right and send it on it's way!

So if you think it's going to make for a better outcome in a hunting situation you are kidding yourself big time.
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Re: Does brass brand affect accuracy?

Post by in2anity » 22 Jan 2019, 1:39 pm

bigfellascott wrote:I would say quality brass is more important from a precision target shooting standpoint, but for general hunting it's a waste of time and money, same goes for all that case prep work where it's really not going to make any real difference in real hunting situations where distances aren't measured, time to take a shot can be just a second or two, often there's no real quality rest options at hand, not time to get your breathing right, stuff around worrying about wind etc, it's more spot something, check to make sure there's nothing behind the target that may be an issue and if all ok get the aim right and send it on it's way!

So if you think it's going to make for a better outcome in a hunting situation you are kidding yourself big time.


I've been wanting to say this also BF - and lets emphasise the word "precision" here. Many forms of target shooting do not required such attention to detail. Sure this discussion may be applicable to "holden-jack" F-class and benchrest target, but outside of these two disciplines, these sorts of performance gains are totally insignificant. Even for high-class fullbore target shooting these sorts of performance gains are insignificant - error stems almost entirely from the shooter and changing windage. In the unsupported target shooting world, I've seen shooters with the crappiest gear and slap-dash handloads beat the most expensive space-guns and ammo. Very satisfying knowing how levelled the playing field is when you take away all the shooting aids .

Let's be clear here that I'm not judging people for wanting to pursue perfection here; to each to their own. Science is interesting. I'm just agreeing that in practical real-world conditions, such detail is almost completely irrelevant.
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Re: Does brass brand affect accuracy?

Post by Kelsey Cooter » 22 Jan 2019, 2:36 pm

bigfellascott wrote:I would say quality brass is more important from a precision target shooting standpoint, but for general hunting it's a waste of time and money, same goes for all that case prep work where it's really not going to make any real difference in real hunting situations where distances aren't measured, time to take a shot can be just a second or two, often there's no real quality rest options at hand, not time to get your breathing right, stuff around worrying about wind etc, it's more spot something, check to make sure there's nothing behind the target that may be an issue and if all ok get the aim right and send it on it's way!

So if you think it's going to make for a better outcome in a hunting situation you are kidding yourself big time.


Don't get me wrong I absolutely agree. The most important shots for me are when I'm culling roos. But I control those shots by only shooting once I'm within 150m or so and close enough where a headshot is as good as guarantee'd successful.

It's just a case of I find reloading and chasing accuracy is getting rather addictive, the science and variables are interesting and I want to learn and improve my groups purely for the fun of it.
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Re: Does brass brand affect accuracy?

Post by marksman » 22 Jan 2019, 3:57 pm

marksman wrote:anyone who says that brass is brass just the price is different is kidding themselves period :thumbsdown:
before you decide if you are wasting your time by investing in quality brass you have to have a benchmark of what you expect from it
if you are happy with 1 moa plus at 100 yards then go for the cheaper stuff, you probably only shoot chest shots that far max anyway :unknown:
but if you want precision at range you will invest at minimum your time and effort into making the cases as consistent and straight as you can
there is a reason that precision shooters use lapua and dont worry I rate some other brands bought cheaper as good once match prepped and sorted
if you really want to know if someone gives good advise look at his targets
a gong shooter does not need the precision a group shooter does :drinks: pick a benchmark then work towards getting it consistently :thumbsup:


I will put it up again :drinks:

so if your benchmark is not tiny little groups at distance good on you :lol:
but really there is benefit for working your brass,
we know that because people who say it's not necessary for hunting do say it does benefit competition benchrest :unknown:
there is benefit in taking measures to remove as many variations that we can :drinks: even just for hunting animals :drinks:
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Re: Does brass brand affect accuracy?

Post by bigfellascott » 22 Jan 2019, 3:59 pm

Kelsey Cooter wrote:
bigfellascott wrote:I would say quality brass is more important from a precision target shooting standpoint, but for general hunting it's a waste of time and money, same goes for all that case prep work where it's really not going to make any real difference in real hunting situations where distances aren't measured, time to take a shot can be just a second or two, often there's no real quality rest options at hand, not time to get your breathing right, stuff around worrying about wind etc, it's more spot something, check to make sure there's nothing behind the target that may be an issue and if all ok get the aim right and send it on it's way!

So if you think it's going to make for a better outcome in a hunting situation you are kidding yourself big time.


Don't get me wrong I absolutely agree. The most important shots for me are when I'm culling roos. But I control those shots by only shooting once I'm within 150m or so and close enough where a headshot is as good as guarantee'd successful.

It's just a case of I find reloading and chasing accuracy is getting rather addictive, the science and variables are interesting and I want to learn and improve my groups purely for the fun of it.


That's fair enough Kelsey, if you enjoy doing it go right ahead and do it but I don't think it will make much difference in the real world of shooting roos, well unless you have something that's flatout hitting a basketball at say 100m then by all means try and improve it so it can get the job done.

I have stuffed around with neck turning, primer pocket reaming etc etc and honestly it made no real difference to how well the rifle shot in the field in hunting type situations, I know it does make a difference shooting tiny groups so worthwhile doing if you want to be competitive but honestly to me it's a waste of time for general hunting duties. :drinks:
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Re: Does brass brand affect accuracy?

Post by TassieTiger » 22 Jan 2019, 6:01 pm

[\quote] It's just a case of I find reloading and chasing accuracy is getting rather addictive, the science and variables are interesting and I want to learn and improve my groups purely for the fun of it.[/quote]

Ohhhh Kelsey mate...maaaattteeeee!!!!
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Re: Does brass brand affect accuracy?

Post by SCJ429 » 22 Jan 2019, 6:20 pm

bigfellascott wrote:
So if you think it's going to make for a better outcome in a hunting situation you are kidding yourself big time.


One thing that cannot be argued is that an accurate rifle and ammo is detrimental to a hunting outcome.
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Re: Does brass brand affect accuracy?

Post by deye243 » 22 Jan 2019, 6:39 pm

TassieTiger wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
TassieTiger wrote:The lapua brass is annealed, Remington is not.


Although possible this is unlikely. You;ll find that Remington simply polish out the annealing colouring - the brass is annealed.


Really ? The way the rem brass came out of the packet, it was pretty ratty...certainly not polished...I would have thought they'd like to advertise the annealing if it was there...?


All brass is anealed :crazy: or you would not be able to seat a pill as the case mouth would be as hard as the head ... :lol:
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Re: Does brass brand affect accuracy?

Post by Stix » 22 Jan 2019, 7:38 pm

I find when it comes to hunting its about confidence...confidence in knowing where your shot is going to land...

If case prepping is your thing, followed by shooting tighter groups & slowly extending your ranges for humane killing in the field gives you confidence...go forth & prep...

It also depends on what you call hunting...
Smashing mobs of goats under 50 yds, or long range varminting...
Personally i want to pop heads of bunnies (at what i call) long range--240-300 yds & possibly further...

I follow as many steps as i have the equipment to do so as to (try) eliminate as manyl errors & inconsistancies as possible...(within reason)
I know its placebo to a point, especially with factory non-bedded rifles, but i figure if all the guys that can comfortably & consistantly lob groups into half MOA at 600 yds all swear by the prep & brass quality, then im in...

I figure its all good learning & practise for the time i get the ideal varmint cartridge custom chambered...

Having said that, an 3/4 inch grouping factory rifle operated by an experienced rabbit shooter/roo culler should hit a bunny's head at 200 in a 5mph wind, & a fox's chest at 250, & therefor anything closer so a little brass dag hanging off the flash hole probably doesnt make the difference if just after a knockdown in that scenario...
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Re: Does brass brand affect accuracy?

Post by TassieTiger » 22 Jan 2019, 7:56 pm

deye243 wrote:
TassieTiger wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
TassieTiger wrote:The lapua brass is annealed, Remington is not.


Although possible this is unlikely. You;ll find that Remington simply polish out the annealing colouring - the brass is annealed.


Really ? The way the rem brass came out of the packet, it was pretty ratty...certainly not polished...I would have thought they'd like to advertise the annealing if it was there...?


All brass is anealed :crazy: or you would not be able to seat a pill as the case mouth would be as hard as the head ... :lol:


I stand corrected...it certainly appear to my eye / feel that the lapua cases are more pliable but I can tell you what - I got some strange looks at my work when I was handing around an empty 260 lapua case followed by - “just take a look at this farken art here...”
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