20 Cal Roo legal Bullets...(40's)...what are you using...?

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20 Cal Roo legal Bullets...(40's)...what are you using...?

Post by Stix » 01 Feb 2019, 9:19 pm

Im keen to move on up to 40 gr bullets for the 204...

The 32gr Zmax im using are starting to piss me off with exit wounds that leave holes in furs i want to keep & get my left boot covered in blood when skinning out, & they are not roo legal either (im pretty sure 204 is min legal cal for Roos on destruction permit but require 40's).

So im about to run out of a batch of powder & thought a new bullet might be the go with the powder change.

Im also hoping they'll be a little better in the wind than the 32's which seem to go awal when granny sneezes...


So what are you fellow 204 luv lusting folk (or other 20 cal users) using in the heavier end of bullets...?...The cheaper end the better of course cos im a poor stooge... :D
Im keen to hear from anyone who has experience with these little bullets....whether being a 204 user or not...on all aspects including how they work on fur like cats & foxes with regard to how frangible/exit wounds etc., & maybe even velocities you drive them at if you know. :unknown:


Also, as a side note...whilst id imagine no ranger or copper would pull my projectiles & weigh them, do 39 gr bullets class as 40's for roos...? Surely they do...! :unknown: !!
(i dont shoot roos as a rule, however i am listed on a few permits so if i come across them i like to do the right thing... :thumbsup: )

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Re: 20 Cal Roo legal Bullets...(40's)...what are you using..

Post by Bruiser64 » 02 Feb 2019, 12:39 am

I use 40 grain Hornady Vmaxs in my 204. You are spot on, 40 grain pills in 204 are the minimum that are allowed for roo shooting. I have no experience using the 32 grainers, so can’t offer a comment there. I can confirm the 40 grain pills are absolutely devastating when head shooting Roos. The Roos will just drop on the spot if I do my part.

I don’t think the 40 grainers will help your exit wound issue though. The make a pretty substantial exit wound on the foxes I have shot. As far as cost is concerned, I paid $100 delivered for a box of 250 in the last couple of weeks. So they are a bit dearer than the 32 grain Zmaxs . I am using ADI Benchmark . I don’t have a chronograph so I don’t know what the velocity is. The load I am using is very effective in my view.
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Re: 20 Cal Roo legal Bullets...(40's)...what are you using..

Post by deye243 » 02 Feb 2019, 1:51 am

...
Last edited by deye243 on 02 Feb 2019, 2:24 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 20 Cal Roo legal Bullets...(40's)...what are you using..

Post by deye243 » 02 Feb 2019, 2:22 am

Stix wrote:Im keen to move on up to 40 gr bullets for the 204...

The 32gr Zmax im using are starting to piss me off with exit wounds that leave holes in furs i want to keep & get my left boot covered in blood when skinning out, & they are not roo legal either (im pretty sure 204 is min legal cal for Roos on destruction permit but require 40's).

So im about to run out of a batch of powder & thought a new bullet might be the go with the powder change.

Im also hoping they'll be a little better in the wind than the 32's which seem to go awal when granny sneezes...


So what are you fellow 204 luv lusting folk (or other 20 cal users) using in the heavier end of bullets...?...The cheaper end the better of course cos im a poor stooge... :D
Im keen to hear from anyone who has experience with these little bullets....whether being a 204 user or not...on all aspects including how they work on fur like cats & foxes with regard to how frangible/exit wounds etc., & maybe even velocities you drive them at if you know. :unknown:


Also, as a side note...whilst id imagine no ranger or copper would pull my projectiles & weigh them, do 39 gr bullets class as 40's for roos...? Surely they do...! :unknown: !!
(i dont shoot roos as a rule, however i am listed on a few permits so if i come across them i like to do the right thing... :thumbsup: )

:drinks:

Actually I removed my comment for obveus reasons
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Re: 20 Cal Roo legal Bullets...(40's)...what are you using..

Post by Stix » 02 Feb 2019, 8:15 am

Bruiser64 wrote:I use 40 grain Hornady Vmaxs in my 204. You are spot on, 40 grain pills in 204 are the minimum that are allowed for roo shooting. I have no experience using the 32 grainers, so can’t offer a comment there. I can confirm the 40 grain pills are absolutely devastating when head shooting Roos. The Roos will just drop on the spot if I do my part.

I don’t think the 40 grainers will help your exit wound issue though. The make a pretty substantial exit wound on the foxes I have shot. As far as cost is concerned, I paid $100 delivered for a box of 250 in the last couple of weeks. So they are a bit dearer than the 32 grain Zmaxs . I am using ADI Benchmark . I don’t have a chronograph so I don’t know what the velocity is. The load I am using is very effective in my view.



Thanks Bruiser... :drinks:

And which Benchmark powder are you using mate...?
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Re: 20 Cal Roo legal Bullets...(40's)...what are you using..

Post by Stix » 02 Feb 2019, 8:26 am

deye243 wrote:Actually I removed my comment for obveus reasons


:huh: ...errrr...

...nope... :?:

...the obveus-ality escapes me... :unknown:

You'll have to spell it out for me...
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Re: 20 Cal Roo legal Bullets...(40's)...what are you using..

Post by SCJ429 » 02 Feb 2019, 9:20 am

I use 39 grain Blitz Kings, you need to head shoot things as they are very damaging. Also used the Vmax which are also excellent. 40 grain projectiles are flat shooting and Buck the wind very well.
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Re: 20 Cal Roo legal Bullets...(40's)...what are you using..

Post by bladeracer » 02 Feb 2019, 10:18 am

Will depend on twist rate, some rifles won't shoot the 40gn poly-tips, but like the 39gn HP due to them being shorter.
I'd order a sample pack of 40gn VMax's from ProjectileWarehouse and try them out. If they stabilise then they're a great bullet.
But I think the only way you'll stop pelt damage is reduced velocity, the velocity makes the .204 explosive with any bullet.
If you're spotlighting you'll probably want the velocity though.
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Re: 20 Cal Roo legal Bullets...(40's)...what are you using..

Post by bigfellascott » 02 Feb 2019, 10:55 am

Try some 26gn Varmint grenades from barnes, they might be better if you want fur that's not badly damaged (not sure if I've tried any on foxes yet (I generally just use the 39gn sierras.

http://www.barnesbullets.com/bullets/varmint-grenade/
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Re: 20 Cal Roo legal Bullets...(40's)...what are you using..

Post by Bruiser64 » 02 Feb 2019, 11:37 am

Stix wrote:
Bruiser64 wrote:I use 40 grain Hornady Vmaxs in my 204. You are spot on, 40 grain pills in 204 are the minimum that are allowed for roo shooting. I have no experience using the 32 grainers, so can’t offer a comment there. I can confirm the 40 grain pills are absolutely devastating when head shooting Roos. The Roos will just drop on the spot if I do my part.

I don’t think the 40 grainers will help your exit wound issue though. The make a pretty substantial exit wound on the foxes I have shot. As far as cost is concerned, I paid $100 delivered for a box of 250 in the last couple of weeks. So they are a bit dearer than the 32 grain Zmaxs . I am using ADI Benchmark . I don’t have a chronograph so I don’t know what the velocity is. The load I am using is very effective in my view.



Thanks Bruiser... :drinks:

And which Benchmark powder are you using mate...?


Sorry, I forgot to say it is Benchmark 2. Looking at the ADI chart it seemed to be provide a good Balance between case pressure and velocity. It would be handy to know the velocity, but not possible at present. Getting a chronograph is on my “things to buy” list. But it won’t happen for a while.
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Re: 20 Cal Roo legal Bullets...(40's)...what are you using..

Post by bladeracer » 02 Feb 2019, 11:40 am

bigfellascott wrote:Try some 26gn Varmint grenades from barnes, they might be better if you want fur that's not badly damaged (not sure if I've tried any on foxes yet (I generally just use the 39gn sierras.

http://www.barnesbullets.com/bullets/varmint-grenade/


I like the 24gn NTX, but that doesn't help him when he wants to use a 40gn bullet ;-)
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Re: 20 Cal Roo legal Bullets...(40's)...what are you using..

Post by SCJ429 » 02 Feb 2019, 1:09 pm

Speer make a 39 grain TNT, I would like to give them a go. They are also very frangable and will knock foxes around.
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Re: 20 Cal Roo legal Bullets...(40's)...what are you using..

Post by bladeracer » 02 Feb 2019, 1:30 pm

SCJ429 wrote:Speer make a 39 grain TNT, I would like to give them a go. They are also very frangable and will knock foxes around.


The TNT and Blitzking 39's both shoot well for me.
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Re: 20 Cal Roo legal Bullets...(40's)...what are you using..

Post by Stix » 02 Feb 2019, 2:34 pm

SCJ429 wrote:I use 39 grain Blitz Kings, you need to head shoot things as they are very damaging. Also used the Vmax which are also excellent. 40 grain projectiles are flat shooting and Buck the wind very well.

Thats good to know...thanks SCJ...Im hoping they'll do me justice in my poor wind reading ability out beyond 250 yds--that little 32 doesnt seem to go where i want it to if its a little blustery...

bladeracer wrote:Will depend on twist rate, some rifles won't shoot the 40gn poly-tips, but like the 39gn HP due to them being shorter.
I'd order a sample pack of 40gn VMax's from ProjectileWarehouse and try them out. If they stabilise then they're a great bullet.
But I think the only way you'll stop pelt damage is reduced velocity, the velocity makes the .204 explosive with any bullet.
If you're spotlighting you'll probably want the velocity though.


I actually have a box of Hdy Vmax 40's i got when i got the rifle--ill do a test with them for sure, but still wanted to hear what y'all use... :thumbsup:

As for reducing damage by reducing velocity--my load is pretty mild already--its only 28gr of 08 pushing at (from memory) 3650-ish...dont want to go lower than that for my main load.

Ive mentioned before, but the first batch of 32 Zmax's i used were great--not one exit wound on a fox or cat that was hit at center of chest mass from any direction--& the entire chest cavity was a jellified blood clot with absolutely NO visial signs of individusl organs ...


The next 2 boxes i have do this with same load...
A cat i dropped last Mon night...
100yds sitting front on--pretty easy shot (although my heart was going like the clappers as i couldnt believe sat for me...!!) & i may have pulled the shot ever so slightly right of centre going by exit wounds, although the entry hole is pretty much centre line.
(Apologies for the gore)
2019-02-02 14.32.05.jpg
Front on chest entry
2019-02-02 14.32.05.jpg (352.76 KiB) Viewed 344 times


Here you can see all the exit wounds that pepper the pelt...this didnt happen with the last batch which must have fragmented into much smaller bits...
2019-02-02 14.32.36.jpg
Multiple exit wounds
2019-02-02 14.32.36.jpg (410.78 KiB) Viewed 344 times


Less velocity they will pencil through, as they do on bunnies beyond 250 yds...not sure i like that.
& yes spotlighting i definately want the velocity. :thumbsup:

So ill try the 40 Vmax & might try the Speer 39's too.
But i might also try those Barnes jobbies you suggest Bigfella...

With any luck a 40 will do the job for all, but if not with any luck ill have 2 diff bullets/loads that only have a slight difference in vertical poi & trajectory, & slip a 40 in for long afternoon bunny sniping & the occasional skippo.

Maybe i was spoilt with the first batch of Zmax's, & now i expect too much... :unknown: ...dunno...im new to these fast flat inciy beincy bullets...

Thanks guys...ill see how they all go...its all time for me, hopefully i find better solution before MarchApril.
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Re: 20 Cal Roo legal Bullets...(40's)...what are you using..

Post by bladeracer » 02 Feb 2019, 2:41 pm

Stix wrote:Less velocity they will pencil through, as they do on bunnies beyond 250 yds...not sure i like that.
& yes spotlighting i definately want the velocity. :thumbsup:


My 2400fps 32gn ZMax loads still explode on foxes. The bullets are designed to function down to 1600fps impact velocity.
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Re: 20 Cal Roo legal Bullets...(40's)...what are you using..

Post by Stix » 02 Feb 2019, 4:01 pm

bladeracer wrote:
Stix wrote:Less velocity they will pencil through, as they do on bunnies beyond 250 yds...not sure i like that.
& yes spotlighting i definately want the velocity. :thumbsup:


My 2400fps 32gn ZMax loads still explode on foxes. The bullets are designed to function down to 1600fps impact velocity.


Are they exiting the foxes...?
And do you know what sort of drop you get at 250 yds...?

I havnt tried my trailboss load on fur as its not as accurate a load--seems to basically shoot sub inch with most powder charges...i need better for what & how i shoot.
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Re: 20 Cal Roo legal Bullets...(40's)...what are you using..

Post by bladeracer » 02 Feb 2019, 4:27 pm

Stix wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
Stix wrote:Less velocity they will pencil through, as they do on bunnies beyond 250 yds...not sure i like that.
& yes spotlighting i definately want the velocity. :thumbsup:


My 2400fps 32gn ZMax loads still explode on foxes. The bullets are designed to function down to 1600fps impact velocity.


Are they exiting the foxes...?
And do you know what sort of drop you get at 250 yds...?

I haven't tried my trailboss load on fur as its not as accurate a load--seems to basically shoot sub inch with most powder charges...i need better for what & how i shoot.


It's not a 250yd hunting load, but a 200yd zero would put it about 90mm high at 110 and 150mm low at 250. 200yds would be okay, but I would increase the velocity to maybe 2600fps to ensure expansion at 250yds. It's certainly accurate enough for foxes and rabbits to 200m. Are you saying that your full-power 32gn loads are not expanding on rabbits at 250yds? With TB loads I shot a fox at about 40m into the chest as he walked toward me and opened his belly from neck to nutsack. Another I shot in the spine as he sat facing away from me at about 70m and pretty much opened him up the same way. I think the damage is hydraulic rather than mechanical.

The bullets tear the foxes up so I'm guessing the fragments are probably leaving the body, although they're probably not large and not going very far or very fast at that point. I don't spotlight so I can work with a trajectory, but most of my shots are well under 200m.
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Re: 20 Cal Roo legal Bullets...(40's)...what are you using..

Post by Stix » 02 Feb 2019, 9:55 pm

bladeracer wrote:
Stix wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
Stix wrote:Less velocity they will pencil through, as they do on bunnies beyond 250 yds...not sure i like that.
& yes spotlighting i definately want the velocity. :thumbsup:


My 2400fps 32gn ZMax loads still explode on foxes. The bullets are designed to function down to 1600fps impact velocity.


Are they exiting the foxes...?
And do you know what sort of drop you get at 250 yds...?

I haven't tried my trailboss load on fur as its not as accurate a load--seems to basically shoot sub inch with most powder charges...i need better for what & how i shoot.


It's not a 250yd hunting load, but a 200yd zero would put it about 90mm high at 110 and 150mm low at 250. 200yds would be okay, but I would increase the velocity to maybe 2600fps to ensure expansion at 250yds. It's certainly accurate enough for foxes and rabbits to 200m. Are you saying that your full-power 32gn loads are not expanding on rabbits at 250yds? With TB loads I shot a fox at about 40m into the chest as he walked toward me and opened his belly from neck to nutsack. Another I shot in the spine as he sat facing away from me at about 70m and pretty much opened him up the same way. I think the damage is hydraulic rather than mechanical.

The bullets tear the foxes up so I'm guessing the fragments are probably leaving the body, although they're probably not large and not going very far or very fast at that point. I don't spotlight so I can work with a trajectory, but most of my shots are well under 200m.


I wouldnt try my reduced load at 250--its only an inch group so not accurate enough even if i could work with the rainbow effect...mind you im aiming to hit heads of rabbits so i dont want to blow noses off.

Firstly I shouldnt suggest my full load is full power...i had another node up around 3800-3900fps but figured the 3600fps is enough & it seemed slightly more accurate on paper, & had better chrono numbers of not even in the teens for ES & single figure SD.

But to your question, my load seems to be pencilling through bunnies at 250....
My PB of 351 yds pencilled thru hi in the neck & it bled out.
Not sure if you remember me posting this, but it was a two'fer, just under 250yds...
The pic is taken from the direction of the shot. It looked to me the bullet partially opened going through the neck of first & penciled through the neck of the second.
2018-11-27 21.38.19.jpg
One shot (A smidge under) 250 yds
2018-11-27 21.38.19.jpg (468.11 KiB) Viewed 270 times

To compare, i also had a similar shot at 100 yds which took the top of the first bunnies head off & the fragments shotgunned the one behind which kicked itself in circles & down the hole before i got to nut him... ( :thumbsdown: )

So they may be expanding at 250, but they are not fragmenting into many bits at the range.

At 190 yds they still fully fragment & leave a flap of skin for the head.

My guess is that if yours are ripping foxes open either front or back on, & from the carbie all the way to exhaust that they are not fragmenting--rather opening up & ripping a big hole through.

What batch number are yours Blade...?
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