Cream of Wheat?

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Cream of Wheat?

Post by Stoney » 06 Feb 2019, 7:29 pm

Hey fellas, In my never ending education of how to actually successfully shoot a cast bullet from my .303 I have come across the website 303british that recommends using Cream of Wheat as a filler. Sooooooooo, firstly, What the f..k is Cream of Wheat? How do you use a filler correctly? Is there other fillers that are better? Why is it such a drama to shoot cast? I am using TB, am I retarded? :lol: :lol: :lol: Cheers and thanks in advance. :thumbsup: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Cream of Wheat?

Post by Gaznazdiak » 06 Feb 2019, 8:02 pm

Mmmmmm, cream of wheat, brings back childhood.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cream_of_Wheat
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Re: Cream of Wheat?

Post by Rod_outbak » 06 Feb 2019, 8:07 pm

I have a suspicion that it might be one of the coffee whiteners/creamers.
I also recall someone suggesting cornflakes in my .45 Colt many years ago, but I never got around to trying it..

If it was a reasonably straight-walled case, I've been suggested one of the wheat-starch packing 'beans', but make sure it's a medical one, as they dont have any coatings on them.
[NO idea how the bloke could tell, or where you get medical-grade packing beans, so havent yet tried making up any new .45-90 cases until we have another conversation...]

Another thought is to use a bulkier powder to reduce the need for a packer?

Sorry; not much help.
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Re: Cream of Wheat?

Post by Stoney » 06 Feb 2019, 8:12 pm

Gaznazdiak wrote:Mmmmmm, cream of wheat, brings back childhood.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cream_of_Wheat



I remember porridge, or tapioca or creamed rice as a kid Gaz. :thumbsup:
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Re: Cream of Wheat?

Post by in2anity » 06 Feb 2019, 8:33 pm

What makes you think you need filler with TB Stoney?
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Re: Cream of Wheat?

Post by pomemax » 06 Feb 2019, 9:42 pm

Gaznazdiak wrote:Mmmmmm, cream of wheat, brings back childhood.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cream_of_Wheat

I hated that stuff much preferred porridge did they say to just stuff the case with dry grains of cream of wheat you would have to weigh it to get consistency I suppose .
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Re: Cream of Wheat?

Post by Stix » 06 Feb 2019, 10:11 pm

Im fsr from an expert...infact quite young at loading & shooting with Trailboss...

But trailboss has a much higher bulk density than other powders, meaning if you're loading to ADI spec, it will fill your case to a safe level without needing to top the case with filler for an even burn...

So like In2, im curious as to why you need a filler with Trailboss...
Is there something i dont know about in loading with TB...?
The man who knows everything, doesnt really know everything...he's just stopped learning...
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Re: Cream of Wheat?

Post by No1Mk3 » 07 Feb 2019, 4:02 am

G'day Stoney,
You only need fillers with Black Powder or very light loads of fast powder. Just load the TB as per load recommendations. Cheers.
PS: Cream of Wheat is fine ground Tapioca, no need to use it specifically for BP, as Tapioca on it's own will do, same as using Semolina or stuffing Kapok, if your that keen.
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Re: Cream of Wheat?

Post by yumastepside » 07 Feb 2019, 2:04 pm

In Australia its called Farex, a baby porridge mix,I use it when fireforming cases with shotgun powder or pistol powder. A bit of powder, fill the remaining case with Farex and fill the neck with an old crayon or melted wax.

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Re: Cream of Wheat?

Post by pomemax » 07 Feb 2019, 4:37 pm

yumastepside wrote:In Australia its called Farex, a baby porridge mix,I use it when fireforming cases with shotgun powder or pistol powder. A bit of powder, fill the remaining case with Farex and fill the neck with an old crayon or melted wax.

Roger

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Re: Cream of Wheat?

Post by Stoney » 07 Feb 2019, 6:04 pm

Ok fellas, there is a bit of a story to this, so perhaps put the jug on or grab a coldie and your reading glasses. :D
Rightio, so I was looking for a No 4 action or an old shot out .303 ( No 4) with a good action to use as a project to rechamber to 7x57R. I got offered a Savage No 4 MK1* for a good price to use for the project. When it arrived it was in far better condition than I expected. I expected an old dinged up war horse with spider webs in the barrel :lol: So any thoughts of butchering it went out the window. So I then thought, if it shoots as good as it looks I might use it for Service Match. I bought some S&B 174grn FMJ rounds ( .311 ) and made up some Hornady 174grn RNSP ( .312 ). It has a 2 groove barrel. I took it to the range and it shot the S&B rounds far better than I expected. It also shot the Hornady rounds even better. Someone with younger eyes could do better but all of my shots landed on target say around minute of BBQ paper plate@100yrds :lol: I bought a front sight adjustment tool and a heap of front sight blades from the UK with enthusiasm. I then realised my eyes are just too old to shoot out further than 100 yards with open sights and also that steel butt plate absolutely punishes me with stiff loads after 20 rounds. So what do I do? Well I was reading about shooting cast and I read that the 2 groove barrel .303 lends itself to shoot cast quite well. I get to keep the rifle original and shoot it, win win. Right, I grab a box of HBRC .311 cast bullets and a 1.5kg bottle of TB. I also spent hours cleaning the bore of any copper or other junk. My first loads I seated the cast projectile with the base of the projectile at the juncture of the shoulder and neck. Knowing .303's like neck tension. Applying the ADI formula for TB I filled the case to approximate base of projectile weighed and reduced starting load to 70%. That was around 10.5grns of TB. So I then made batches of 3 rounds in steps of .5 grain increases. 10.5-14.5grns. 10.5grns@50yrds produced perfectly 180grn cast bullet sideways cutouts. 11.0 the same, all the way to14.5grns the same. Some projectiles don't even make it to the target as you would expect. So I had a whinge about this on another post and in2anity sent me some 115grn .313 rounds to try :thumbsup: I started these with 11grns of TB up to 14grns. All sideways if they even hit the target. The last load at 14grns, which should be stepping along not one round hit anywhere on the target@50?. I have more room to add more TB with the 180grn projectile as I have now seated them out to within a p*ssyhair of the lands. So do I just keep adding powder? Can you compress TB? The reason I asked about filler is. When I read the fundamentals of cast bullet shooting on 303british.net for the 303 they state. Use a fast burning powder Tick, Seat the bullet to the lands Tick, Fill any void with filler ????. :unknown: A couple points I want to make is - It shoots jacketed projectiles no problems. An increase of TB by 45% from the start load has had no effect whatsoever on the keyholing problem. Cheers and sorry for the ear chewing :D
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Re: Cream of Wheat?

Post by bigpete » 07 Feb 2019, 8:26 pm

You can't compress TB. But you can certainly fill the case with it
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Re: Cream of Wheat?

Post by No1_49er » 07 Feb 2019, 8:32 pm

The "filling the void with filler" probably applies to fast burning powder, as in small quantities of pistol powders? But not TB, which you will be filling the case to at least 70% of capacity. Yes, it's a relatively fast powder but its bulk density is very low - small charge weight, but large volume. The filler helps to retain the powder charge close to/against the primer flash - not required in this case.
Have you got access to a chrony? I think you need to know what velocity is being achieved.
What about at 25mtr - is the complete projectile passing through the target?
Just my thoughts, without knowing anything else about the situation.
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Re: Cream of Wheat?

Post by in2anity » 08 Feb 2019, 8:59 am

Bugger i'm sorry to hear of your troubles Stoney. For some reason the rounds aren't stabilising properly :unknown: my experiences with keyholing is too much gases getting past the softer lead, I rectified this by indeed backing off the charge, at which point I started seeing groups. It's just a hunch, but I think it may have something to do with the (lack of) bearing surface in conjunction with the (potentially deep) 2 groove barrel combined with a fast powder... it's a shame we don't live closer so I could give you sample of some other powders - given your results I feel it might be worth experimenting with some slower powders such as 07 or 05. I wish ADI sold sample packs - that would be very convenient.

Just a couple of suggestions, could you experiment with TB under some jacketed pills? Have you slugged your bore with a rather oversized lead pill? (perhaps your grooves are exceptionally deep?) As No1 said, I think chronoing will add a lot of value - it gives you whole nother perspective on a problem. Also if you can be bothered you could try lubing them?
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Re: Cream of Wheat?

Post by Blr243 » 08 Feb 2019, 3:58 pm

All of this is very important reading for me. I am just starting to use trailboss for subsonic loads I have also heard that it’s real important not to compress the powder It seems from what I have read that trailboss in a 303 is safer if you use cast lead pills instead copper jacketed I will post my results and hopefully something useful to others as I proceed
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Re: Cream of Wheat?

Post by Stoney » 08 Feb 2019, 7:07 pm

G'day All,

No1_49er wrote:The "filling the void with filler" probably applies to fast burning powder, as in small quantities of pistol powders? But not TB, which you will be filling the case to at least 70% of capacity. Yes, it's a relatively fast powder but its bulk density is very low - small charge weight, but large volume. The filler helps to retain the powder charge close to/against the primer flash - not required in this case.
Have you got access to a chrony? I think you need to know what velocity is being achieved.
What about at 25mtr - is the complete projectile passing through the target?
Just my thoughts, without knowing anything else about the situation.


No1_49er I think a chrony is in order.

in2anity wrote:Bugger i'm sorry to hear of your troubles Stoney. For some reason the rounds aren't stabilising properly :unknown: my experiences with keyholing is too much gases getting past the softer lead, I rectified this by indeed backing off the charge, at which point I started seeing groups. It's just a hunch, but I think it may have something to do with the (lack of) bearing surface in conjunction with the (potentially deep) 2 groove barrel combined with a fast powder... it's a shame we don't live closer so I could give you sample of some other powders - given your results I feel it might be worth experimenting with some slower powders such as 07 or 05. I wish ADI sold sample packs - that would be very convenient.

Just a couple of suggestions, could you experiment with TB under some jacketed pills? Have you slugged your bore with a rather oversized lead pill? (perhaps your grooves are exceptionally deep?) As No1 said, I think chronoing will add a lot of value - it gives you whole nother perspective on a problem. Also if you can be bothered you could try lubing them?


in2anity don't be sorry. You sent me projectiles to try at no cost at all to myself. :thumbsup: I cannot wait to repay you. :friends: I honestly think either TB is the wrong powder for this rifle OR I am using the wrong projectiles. I have shot jacketed projectiles in my other .303 with TB no problems at all. But not cast in anything but this rifle. :wtf:
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