How do you perform your ladder tests/load development

Reloading equipment, methods, load data, powder and projectile information.

Re: How do you perform your ladder tests/load development

Post by bigfellascott » 25 Mar 2019, 8:43 pm

Never done a ladder test (wasn't known back in my day) I just start my reloads at min recommended in the reloading manual and just load 3 rounds of each load working up in .3gn increments until I find a load that shoots ok and leave it at that, I don't fluff around with seating depths much if at all either, I keep things basic and I find that's good enough for my needs.

Sometimes I don't even test loads for accuracy or I might just load what I think is a good enough load, put a couple of shots on paper to see if they are heading in the right direction and then go out and confirm it shoots fine in the paddock. :drinks:
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Re: How do you perform your ladder tests/load development

Post by bladeracer » 26 Mar 2019, 1:06 pm

SCJ429 wrote:I understand your approach but for other people they are not chasing an arbitrary maximum velocity but exploiting the potential of their case. Why have the hairy chested Swede and shoot it at Grendel speeds?

I also find that accuracy is linked to low SD. You don't need to know the SD to have accurate ammunition but knowing the SD can help get you there.


Exploring the limits is fine, we all enjoy experimenting, and trying to find the maximum possible velocity is part of that. But if I have no intention of shooting such hot loads all the time, there's little point in my doing that sort of load development. If I just want to know how fast I can push it I can simply shoot them through a chrono into the dirt without bothering with targets. If I want to get the best accuracy, I can shoot at paper without bothering to measure velocities. One of the things that drove F-Class I think was the need to optimise accuracy while maintaining enough velocity to be stable at the target distance. With modern bullet designs, is that 1600m stability an issue still? Do modern bullets lose all stability transitioning and become hopelessly inaccurate?

I don't see any need to work any of my rifles at maximum load, and I like my brass to last. Instead of trying to punch a 150gn bullet at 3200 out of the 6.5x55mm I'd find a better bullet, or use something else that can do that, again without pushing that rifle to its limits either.

When they change the laws so we can only have a single-shot .22LR and we need to find ways of getting it to make similar power to .30-06 then I'll investigate ways of doing so. Nowadays we have a virtually endless choice of chamberings we can use to suit any situation we can come up with. If you need to hit harder than the cartridge you're using, use a cartridge that hits harder.

The OP asked us for our specific methods, and yours is as valid as anybody else's. The OP just needs to delineate exactly what end result he requires.
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Re: How do you perform your ladder tests/load development

Post by bladeracer » 26 Mar 2019, 2:08 pm

bigfellascott wrote:Never done a ladder test (wasn't known back in my day) I just start my reloads at min recommended in the reloading manual and just load 3 rounds of each load working up in .3gn increments until I find a load that shoots ok and leave it at that, I don't fluff around with seating depths much if at all either, I keep things basic and I find that's good enough for my needs.

Sometimes I don't even test loads for accuracy or I might just load what I think is a good enough load, put a couple of shots on paper to see if they are heading in the right direction and then go out and confirm it shoots fine in the paddock. :drinks:


When I was learning to load, I was working in .1gn increments because I thought even single kernals of powder mattered :-)
Yep, it's important not to lose sight of your requirements. There is nothing to be gained in developing a 1000m sub-MoA load for a .222Rem, or a .44 Magnum.

With my milsurps I generally just pluck a figure out of the sky and load some rounds up and see how they shoot. I almost always start with some Trailboss loads of 10-15gn just to get some shooting happening while I work on proper load development.

Looking at my logbook, when I bought the M38 in October 2016 I loaded five round groups with the 95gn VMax on AR2206H from 40.0gn to 42gn in .5gn increments. These were the very first rounds I fired in the rifle - I hadn't even fired a sighting round, just bore-sighted it. The first five groups were under 1MoA and virtually on top of each other, except the 40.5gn group that fell 30mm high left. The 42.0gn group went out to 2MoA. Velocities were: 40.0gn 2877fps ES87, 40.5gn 2851fps ES116 -27fps, 41.0gn 2951fps ES57 +100fps, 41.5gn 2978fps ES60 +27fps, and 42.0gn 3032fps ES48 +53fps. I wouldn't even attempt to put any value on SD calculation off just five rounds. I like to record the increase in velocity with charge weight as indicating "burn efficiency". Stepping up .5gn from 40.5gn to 41.0gn gave me an average 100fps increase in velocity, which I take to mean the boiler room is burning the fuel most efficiently. Adding another .5gn only makes me 27fps, adding a full grain only makes me 53fps, and tosses accuracy out the window.

Based on these first 25rds I loaded 100rds for general shooting, they still maintain MoA and I've loaded 300 more of them since. The last group I shot through the chrono last year gave me 2957fps ES48 and an SD of 9.5 (2943 2962 2969 2962 2949) so I think I chose well.
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Re: How do you perform your ladder tests/load development

Post by bladeracer » 31 Mar 2019, 8:11 pm

bladeracer wrote:Looking at my logbook, when I bought the M38 in October 2016 I loaded five round groups with the 95gn VMax on AR2206H from 40.0gn to 42gn in .5gn increments. These were the very first rounds I fired in the rifle - I hadn't even fired a sighting round, just bore-sighted it. The first five groups were under 1MoA and virtually on top of each other, except the 40.5gn group that fell 30mm high left. The 42.0gn group went out to 2MoA. Velocities were: 40.0gn 2877fps ES87, 40.5gn 2851fps ES116 -27fps, 41.0gn 2951fps ES57 +100fps, 41.5gn 2978fps ES60 +27fps, and 42.0gn 3032fps ES48 +53fps. I wouldn't even attempt to put any value on SD calculation off just five rounds. I like to record the increase in velocity with charge weight as indicating "burn efficiency". Stepping up .5gn from 40.5gn to 41.0gn gave me an average 100fps increase in velocity, which I take to mean the boiler room is burning the fuel most efficiently. Adding another .5gn only makes me 27fps, adding a full grain only makes me 53fps, and tosses accuracy out the window.

Based on these first 25rds I loaded 100rds for general shooting, they still maintain MoA and I've loaded 300 more of them since. The last group I shot through the chrono last year gave me 2957fps ES48 and an SD of 9.5 (2943 2962 2969 2962 2949) so I think I chose well.


Thought I might as well update this.
Friday I realised the wind had died away completely, so I went out and set out some targets and the chrongraph, then came and grabbed the M38 and my 147gn ELDM test ammo, still no wind - awesome!
I wanted to shoot some of the Norma factory 139gn FMJ stuff for a baseline and to warm the bore. One round in the box had already had the tip filed off so I fired that one as a warmer, hoping to put five more into a group for reference. Unfortunately, I've had the scope and mount off and the zero was miles out so I burned up most of those just zeroing. Velocity was 2464fps, ES48, SD 23. I didn't bother shooting a group as well as the wind was already getting serious.

I moved to the 33.0gn load. The Norma stuff had a rolling boom, the AR2206H had a very distinct sharp crack to it. The wind was really howling by this point and I figured groups would be totally random and worthless so I'd really just be working with velocities.

33.0gn gave me 2135fps, ES48, SD18, and the group was 51mm.
33.5gn gave me 2198fps, ES25, SD9 and +63fps over the 33.0gn load. Group was 48mm.
34.0gn gave me 2204fps, ES44, SD15 and +6fps. The group was 67mm.
34.5gn gave me 2225fps, ES33, SD11 and +21fps with the group at 60mm.
35.0gn gave me 2266fps, ES73, SD15 and +41fps with a group of 59mm.
35.5gn gave me five chrono errors and no group as the wind was flapping my targets across the backboard - no useful data at all.

No pressure signs, although the edge of the primer is starting to flatten at 35.0gn.
Cases stretched 2-thou at 34.5gn, 5-thou at 35.0gn, and 10-thou at 35.5gn.

Although I really can't make any determinations based on the accuracy due to the conditions, I'm thinking these 36.5mm bullets might enjoy more velocity, so I'll load further up past ADI max and hope we get some calm days.
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