Tikka T3X Tac A1 6.5 Creedmoor ammo

[Flyer]

You get the idea

[Flyer]

I built a 6.5 Creedmoor for metallic sihouette for various reasons, it fits the bill for me quite well. A couple of others did the same. One bloke, after having a couple of the 500m rams stay standing after being hit, christened it the 6.5 Need-more.

Mate, what load do you use and what load was the other guy using that failed to knock down rams? I bought my 6.5 because my 243 wasn't doing the job at 500m either. I haven't shot the 6.5 in metallic silhouette yet.

[Apollo]

Mate the Creedmoor has a few haters and a certain few on this forum starting addressing the 6.5CM as the 6.5 ManBun. I am assuming it is a reference to being something new and trendy, even though it’s 10 plus years old, although no where near as old as the 6.5 Swede.
I love my Creedmoor and instead of arguing about 6.5x55 vs 6.5 CM ballistics, and which is better blah blah, I have just embraced the term.

Thanks for that. I love my 6.5 Calibre being a 6.5x47 Lapua of which I have three rifles chambered for target shooting.

I have seen a couple of comparisons done between the 260Rem, 6.5 Creedmore and the 6.5x47 Lapua and there isn't much between them velocity wise or accuracy wise.

If Sako made an 85 Varmint in 6.5 Creedmoor I'd find it very hard to resist.

[JimTom]

Hahaha nice one Flyer. I had a few good chuckles reading those.

[Apollo]

Hahaha nice one Flyer. I had a few food chuckles reading those.

I must be getting really old and senile as I didn't see anything funny about any of them. Quite the opposite and a waste of space.

Sorry Flyer, must just be me.

[Kel]

Clearly I'm buying into a calibre which stirs emotions. I liked the analogies, including man bun ... that guy is cute and if he can make good coffee as well ... that would be a bonus. I liked the 'need more' quip as well, possibly a few more grains of lead and powder required from that reloader.

Jokes aside, there are obviously differing views on what works and what doesn't (no real surprises there). I would have liked to start by testing a bigger variety of projectiles, the issue I am finding is that suppliers are often not carrying the stock they advertise.

[Flyer]

Haha! Sorry Apollo, I just thought the memes would help explain why the 6.5CM is referred to as the "man bun", as it's been the butt of jokes since it was introduced.

The "man bun" monicker simply refers to the 6.5CM being the "latest trend" that its detractors say will soon die out.

I guess the main criticism is from 6.5x55 owners who point out their calibre has been around for over 100 years; 260 owners who point out there is no ballistic advantage; and 6.5x47 owners who point out there is no accuracy advantage.

But 6.5CM owners are in on the joke, too, as we know the cartridge is inherently accurate (=6.5x47), seats longer projectiles (>260), and has a short action (>6.5x55). Plus the more popular it becomes, the more choice of cheap ammo, projectiles, brass and firearms there are.

I do like the 6.5x47. I also like the 6.5 grendel. But the 6.5CM is a very good alround cartridge and is becoming more common. It has similar recoil to a 243 and similar energy to a 308 after 300m.

If Sako made an 85 Varmint in 6.5 Creedmoor I'd find it very hard to resist.

This is the closest you will get at the moment: https://www.sako.fi/rifles/sako-a7/a7-roughtech-range

Tom and I have the Roughtech Pro models, which have medium weight barrels and are a bit lighter. I tried both in the gun shop and settled on th Pro because it was better balanced for offhand shooting. If I was a bipod or bench shooter, I would have bought the Range model.

[SCJ429]

I have a problem with saying that a Creedmoor is inherently accurate. It is no more so than a 260 or the 6.5x55. It is not close to the PPC or the 6mmBR. It may get there if more successful shooter take it up but it has a long way to go. If Lapua didn't make brass for it, there was going to be real issues with it making traction. Lapua saved it at the expense of their own 6.5.

[Flyer]

Well I guess apples to apples, the 6mm Creedmoor is getting up there in popularity in national comps, so it must be doing something right.

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On the 6.5 side of things, you could argue the 6.5CM has the potential to be more accurate than 6.5x55, as it has a stiffer short action and tighter chamber tolerances than both the Swede and 260. In practice, I know there have been tests showing little difference, but it remains the 6.5CM is far and away more popular than the other 6.5 cartridges (excluding 6.5x47) when it comes to competition, so again, there must be a reason for it.

I agree on the Lapua brass - that's one of the reasons I went 6.5CM and not 6.5x55 - but you could add to that Hornady's match-grade factory ammo. It allows those who don't reload to get good accuracy out of their Creedmoor, and as far as I am aware, there are no similar offerings for 260 or Swede. (EDIT: Hornady offers 130gr match ammo for 260, but 6.5CM has a choice of 120, 140 and 147gr ELD-M; nothing for the Swede)

Originally I was going to buy a Swede, but the short action and ammo/brass availability swayed me to the Creed. But that was just me.

[SCJ429]

The statistics are for PRS shooters, it is a small sample and PRS is less about pure accuracy and heavily weighted towards the shooters ability. In pure accuracy competitions the Creedmoor is under represented. In a head to head shoot off with a competitor who knows what they are doing, you can get cleaned up by a 223.

I was in a 500 metre comp and shared a bench with a guy shooting a 6.5x47 Lapua. At first he spoke to me like the voice of experience which I don't mind but he thought the straight 243 I was using was inferior to his Lapua. He was shocked that I beat him at the end but it wasn't that he had any advantage. I was using match grade projectiles and quality Lapua brass. It came down to the shooter and on this day I did better.

[SCJ429]

Why would the Creedmoor have tighter chamber tolerances than a 260 or a 6.5x55? Are you talking about factory chamberings?

[Apollo]

I've put my deposit on a Tikka Tac A1 in 6.5 Creedmoor. Given that its an expensive round to shoot I've also gone ahead and purchased a reloading press to make the cost of ammo a bit cheaper. My plans for the Tac A1 include medium range (500m) target/gongs and some hunting. As a starting point for reloading and dialling it in I'm keen to hear from other shooters of this rifle what ammo has proved to deliver good results and maybe what to avoid.

From all the discussion above but more on reloading. I'd go down the Lapua Brass path and for target I'd pick something like the 130gr Berger VLD using ADI2208 Powder. Then for hunting I'm not sure but something lighter like the 108/123gr Lapua Scenar which are also very good for target.

I know some will say perhaps the ADI2209 but in this size case I don't know if it's better. I'm basing this idea on being that the 6.5 Creedmoor is so close to the 6.5x47L. I'd be looking at loads around what I use in my 6.5x47L which are about 37.5gr of AR2208 which with a 130gr bullet gives around 1900 fps velocity.

I have read that factory Hornady ammo had problems with blown primers and I think they dropped the load down they were using and it may well now be fixed but I also know the reason in these high pressure cases for using match grade small primers so I think if it was me that's all I would be using. Already learnt to put my hand over the ejection port to catch fired cases so I don't loose any even at night.

I'd love to give this calibre a go. I have a spare new 31" Bartlein HV Barrel just waiting to be chambered but I doubt my local Gunsmith would have a Reamer.

Shooting at 500m to do very well is not only calibre but very much shooter skill and reading conditions then being on the detail that presents the better conditions. Every time I read through the 500m scores I look closely at which bench the top scores come from, which way the wind/mirage is traveling, which detail they are on, the skill of the shooter then lastly what calibre they are using.

[Apollo]

Why would the Creedmoor have tighter chamber tolerances than a 260 or a 6.5x55? Are you talking about factory chamberings?

My guess would be that both those chamberings are old and the new Hornady Spec is based on a tighter tolerance chamber for the higher pressure rated cartridge. Hence their initial blown primer problems pushing their factory loads a tad too high.

[Flyer]

You can compared the SAAMI specs here: https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/20 ... g-Copy.pdf

The 6.5CM is slightly tighter than the 260 (0.010" vs 0.011") and tighter than the 6.5x55 (0.012"-0.016") in terms of case diameter vs chamber.

It depends on the factory chamberings, but I believe mil-spec 6.5x55s have even looser chambers. But I don't have those specs.

What I do know is my 6.5CM chamber is quite tight, having measured fired cases against resized (Forster dies).

[Flyer]

The statistics are for PRS shooters, it is a small sample and PRS is less about pure accuracy and heavily weighted towards the shooters ability. In pure accuracy competitions the Creedmoor is under represented. In a head to head shoot off with a competitor who knows what they are doing, you can get cleaned up by a 223.

I was in a 500 metre comp and shared a bench with a guy shooting a 6.5x47 Lapua. At first he spoke to me like the voice of experience which I don't mind but he thought the straight 243 I was using was inferior to his Lapua. He was shocked that I beat him at the end but it wasn't that he had any advantage. I was using match grade projectiles and quality Lapua brass. It came down to the shooter and on this day I did better.

No argument there - it's the nut behind the butt. In terms of "pure accuracy", I guess we also have to take into account distance. 6.5 PPC is more accurate up to 300m, but beyond that? I can't really answer.

Personally, I shoot better with my 223 than my 6.5 out to 200m, so that's what I use in competition. I've been known to beat guys with 6mm PPCs, such as the week before last when I shot a 99.1 out of 100 at 200m in Field Rifle (sitting, post supported). Still working towards that perfect 100.

[Flyer]

From all the discussion above but more on reloading. I'd go down the Lapua Brass path and for target I'd pick something like the 130gr Berger VLD using ADI2208 Powder. Then for hunting I'm not sure but something lighter like the 108/123gr Lapua Scenar which are also very good for target.

I know some will say perhaps the ADI2209 but in this size case I don't know if it's better. I'm basing this idea on being that the 6.5 Creedmoor is so close to the 6.5x47L. I'd be looking at loads around what I use in my 6.5x47L which are about 37.5gr of AR2208 which with a 130gr bullet gives around 1900 fps velocity.

I have read that factory Hornady ammo had problems with blown primers and I think they dropped the load down they were using and it may well now be fixed but I also know the reason in these high pressure cases for using match grade small primers so I think if it was me that's all I would be using. Already learnt to put my hand over the ejection port to catch fired cases so I don't loose any even at night.

I'd love to give this calibre a go. I have a spare new 31" Bartlein HV Barrel just waiting to be chambered but I doubt my local Gunsmith would have a Reamer.

Shooting at 500m to do very well is not only calibre but very much shooter skill and reading conditions then being on the detail that presents the better conditions. Every time I read through the 500m scores I look closely at which bench the top scores come from, which way the wind/mirage is traveling, which detail they are on, the skill of the shooter then lastly what calibre they are using.

Most of the load data I've read shows 2209 to give best velocity behind a 123gr. I use it, and it is very accurate. Mine's a target load, so I'm only getting 2815fps (measured).

[Apollo]

"Flyer"... I take it you are talking about the Creedmore and I would have expected more velocity than 2815fps. When I was testing 123gr Scenars in my 6.5x47L I was getting over 3000fps after working up from some mild loads which were not very accurate. Nor really were the Scenars compared to the 130gr Berger VLD that I used for a long time. I could push the load a lot further which I have tried but the accuracy node got tighter and not as consistent. With the target rifles I am chasing 0.1 MOA but the best I have managed is 0.125 MOA so at my test range of 200 Yards a 1/4" 5 shot group.

Now, there are some factors here with mine that might affect the figures. I am using a small cartridge case I think (will have to compare) and a longer barrel by some being 28.5" and I was getting a complete burn with the AR2208 but... AR2209 wasn't as clean a burn, some unburnt powder residue. The story was somewhat better when I did trial 140gr bullets with AR2209. If I had a barrel length like those that shoot 1000 yards F-Class/Benchrest at say 31" then that would have a different result too and the slower powder would probably have give much better results.

My long term belief is to pick a powder that gives a complete burn before the bullet leaves the barrel and hence leaves no trace of unburnt powder in the barrel. I also look at the patches I push through the barrel to give me an idea of what residue is left and after 50 shots I look at just a couple of patches for the barrel to be clean and a couple more for copper traces to clear.

I do think with the Creedmoor if it is a fraction larger in case capacity that AR2208 for 123/130gr bullets is the best pick. 108/123gr bullets then I would perhaps even try a faster powder, not sure, but with a factory rifle with say just a 24" barrel the faster powder should produce far better results.

Only a dew thoughts. It would be really nice to play with a Creedmoor and see some real world figures. It's a 6.5mm so what is not to like about the calibre.

[Flyer]

Hey mate, we chronoed 43.2 (2815fps), 44.2 (2880fps) and 45.2 (2960fps) of 2209 behind the 123gr Scenars out of a 24" Sako barrel. Those figures aren't too far off the ADI load data for the 123gr Sierra HPBT, but it was also a new barrel (less than 50 rounds).

http://www.adi-powders.com.au/rifle/6-5-creedmoor

[deye243]

Hmmmm the way I see the bun is that we had the 223 first and then said the 222 was better .
Yes I am talking about the 260R and yes I had one build and if I told you about the ballistics on that thing you would probably not believe it . But I must admit I looked at this exact rifle as they do it in 260R but there is no way I am going to pay more than $3000 on a fifle unless it has a match grade barrel .

Cheers D

[deye243]

Haha this is what you get for not reading the hole thread I will take a 30-06 with red hair please ....... Oops looks like gray will do .......

[Flyer]

You mean the Sako Varmint? For an out-of-the-box rifle they shoot OK. Apollo has a few of them, too, and his shoot well - as I'm sure he can attest.

My Roughtech Pro was less than $2000 and shot the group on the previous page which I thought was OK.

[Apollo]

Hey mate, we chronoed 43.2 (2815fps), 44.2 (2880fps) and 45.2 (2960fps) of 2209 behind the 123gr Scenars out of a 24" Sako barrel. Those figures aren't too far off the ADI load data for the 123gr Sierra HPBT, but it was also a new barrel (less than 50 rounds).

http://www.adi-powders.com.au/rifle/6-5-creedmoor

Yup, okay it behaves a little different to the 47L... Wish Hodgdon would do some 6.5x47L figures so ADI could include them too and compare.

Anyway, I imagine you have tested a bit. Me, I would like to compare the accuracy with 2208.

You know, you are going to cost me money building a Creedmoor.... bugger...

[deye243]

OK i think i stuffed up as i thought we were talking about this rifle , i apologise.......

20190328_013927.jpg (337.94 KiB) Viewed 6196 times

[Apollo]

What the heck is that piece of rubbish....

Sorry, but those things just do not appeal one bit..

[Flyer]

OK i think i stuffed up as i thought we were talking about this rifle , i apologise.......

20190328_013927.jpg

Sorry, no my bad. I thought you were talking about Apollo's wish list. Of course you were talking about the OP's rifle. That's what you (I) get for going off on a tangent . . .

If it's any consolation, the TikTac should have a similar barrel to the 24" Sako, as they obviously both come out of the same factory.

[Flyer]

Hmmmm the way I see the bun is that we had the 223 first and then said the 222 was better .
Yes I am talking about the 260R and yes I had one build and if I told you about the ballistics on that thing you would probably not believe it . But I must admit I looked at this exact rifle as they do it in 260R but there is no way I am going to pay more than $3000 on a fifle unless it has a match grade barrel .

Cheers D

Hey, try me - maybe I will believe you

But first thing's first: what was your COAL, what projectiles did you use, how far out could you seat them and would they fit in a mag?

The main thing that kept me from a 260 was COAL and brass/ammo choice. 260AI appealed, but Hornady has just brought out the 6.5 PRC to rival the 6.5-284.

My 6.5CM velocities are pretty average, but the cartridge can be loaded to a lot higher pressures (especially with the small primer brass) and I know one local gunsmith who loads his to 64,000-65,000psi without issue. But he can afford to replace barrels when he likes.

[Kel]

I've put my deposit on a Tikka Tac A1 in 6.5 Creedmoor. Given that its an expensive round to shoot I've also gone ahead and purchased a reloading press to make the cost of ammo a bit cheaper. My plans for the Tac A1 include medium range (500m) target/gongs and some hunting. As a starting point for reloading and dialling it in I'm keen to hear from other shooters of this rifle what ammo has proved to deliver good results and maybe what to avoid.

From all the discussion above but more on reloading. I'd go down the Lapua Brass path and for target I'd pick something like the 130gr Berger VLD using ADI2208 Powder. Then for hunting I'm not sure but something lighter like the 108/123gr Lapua Scenar which are also very good for target.

I know some will say perhaps the ADI2209 but in this size case I don't know if it's better. I'm basing this idea on being that the 6.5 Creedmoor is so close to the 6.5x47L. I'd be looking at loads around what I use in my 6.5x47L which are about 37.5gr of AR2208 which with a 130gr bullet gives around 1900 fps velocity.

I have read that factory Hornady ammo had problems with blown primers and I think they dropped the load down they were using and it may well now be fixed but I also know the reason in these high pressure cases for using match grade small primers so I think if it was me that's all I would be using. Already learnt to put my hand over the ejection port to catch fired cases so I don't loose any even at night.

I'd love to give this calibre a go. I have a spare new 31" Bartlein HV Barrel just waiting to be chambered but I doubt my local Gunsmith would have a Reamer.

Shooting at 500m to do very well is not only calibre but very much shooter skill and reading conditions then being on the detail that presents the better conditions. Every time I read through the 500m scores I look closely at which bench the top scores come from, which way the wind/mirage is traveling, which detail they are on, the skill of the shooter then lastly what calibre they are using.

Apollo, thanks for the informative posts, those were interesting points about the powder burn rate/bullet weight and barrel length. I will try the 2208 and 2209 and keep an eye on those residue indicators you mentioned. I can see I'm going to be busy and taking lots of notes.

Where do you recommend finding the Berger and Lapua projectiles (I'm in regional NSW so I tend to order gear in as my local gunshop doesn't have a very extensive man bun section) ?

My PTA has been approved so I hope to pick up the Tik Tac next week.

[Flyer]

BRT is the best place for Berger bullets, IMO: http://brtshooterssupply.com.au/

[Flyer]

But try the Lapua Scenars - especially the 123gr - as they seem to shoot in everything, especially the Tikka/Sako barrels.

[Kel]

BRT is the best place for Berger bullets, IMO: http://brtshooterssupply.com.au/

Bugger! I have a Wilson case trimmer in the mail from them as I write this, I didn't notice at the time that they stocked those consumables. Thanks for the heads up.