Does seating a projectile change brass?

[Apollo]

Get a case that won't chamber properly and run a Texta line down each 1/4 from case mouth to base then try to chamber it. Remove carefully and check the case to see if the texta mark has been removed anywhere.

Same can be done by sooting the case.

[Gaz52]

Hi have you measured the neck diameter of the loaded rounds that failed to chamber? If i recall correctlythe case necks should only expand by around .002 inch when a bullet is seated. If the increase is markedly more it would indicate the inside dimensions are too small , requiring neck turning. Variable brass is a pain in the ass! Imho.
Gaz.

[straightshooter]

With all due respect Straightshooter....I dont think peoples responses here are any more a "lucky dip of suggestions" than yours...

In one way or another i see everyone is suggesting to check measurements/dimensions of cases & bullets.

And using a "published recipe" wouldnt appear to have anything to do with not being able to chamber the cartridges...i doubt he has doubled a published charge & stuffed it in with a ram rod.

Sorry...no angst...just saying...

No need to be apologetic about questioning somebody's statement. It's a sign of intelligence or ignorance depending of course on circumstances.
I should have been a little more concise. By published recipe I am referring to what may be found in, for example, the Hornady reloading manual which amongst other things will specify the COL and max case length that will ensure the round will work satisfactorily and safely in any SAAMI specified chamber. I don't mean something put up by some unknown and unaccountable person on the internet.

[marksman]

IMHO I think the actual shoulder is buckling when you seat the bullet making the case too long for headspace
if its hard to seat the bullet it pushes the neck down deforming the shoulder and it wont take much in a fireformed case
you may need a comparator to check www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmKeByFvVgY

it is very important IMHO that your bullet seats and releases easily with little pressure to do so, a similar consistency at least
your projectile should only be held by enough grip that you cant pull the bullet with your fingers, 2-3 thou

if you are feeling different pressures to seat a bullet your cases have different neck tension and you need to anneal or replace your cases

that's what I'm thinking anyway

[Apollo]

Hi have you measured the neck diameter of the loaded rounds that failed to chamber? If i recall correctlythe case necks should only expand by around .002 inch when a bullet is seated. If the increase is markedly more it would indicate the inside dimensions are too small , requiring neck turning. Variable brass is a pain in the ass! Imho.
Gaz.

I don't think you will find any factory chambered rifle that will require neck turning ever. They simply don't make them that tight a tolerance in fact it's probably the other way around. That is unless the rifle has fired so many rounds that it has built up a carbon ring in the neck part of the chamber so it's not neck turning that's required, it's clean the carbon out of the chamber and that isn't easy if it has built up and hardened.

Even though neck thickness varies between manufacturers, some on the thin side and some thick they will never come close enough to cause problems with a factory chambered rifle.

Custom chambers are quite a different story.

[TassieTiger]

So quick follow up on this.
My local friendly 70 year old ex army sniper mate came over and checked out my processes, measured chamber, etc.
He is stunned at the tight tolerances on the sauer compared to my previous 06’s - and measuring the shoulders vs one that would chamber vs wouldn’t, showed very little.
He did find some minor cracks in some necks on some cases, which I missed - proved some case wall issues within my brass.
So because I had to previously resize some already primed cases, I elevated the deprime pin on the FL die - and I didn’t think it would matter as the neck would still be resized.
He thinks that having the redraw pill, sitting so high within the resizing did process, that some thin walled cases may have been pulled further up into the die, thus giving a slightly different angle - thus not allowing bolt closure...I don’t want to question him, he knows so much more than me and generally, I respect my elders to the nth degree.
Does this sound right??

Anyway - we set everything again, made a dummy case at just under max length for that 168gn projectile and it chambered / closed like butter.
So 100 lap cases on the way...I’ll pull the old cases and save powder and projectiles - start from scratch with some jewel like cases.

[marksman]

I am in agreeance with your mate Tassie
I am older than you to I think
how you can stop this from happening is to lube the necks with a graphite type of lube

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8p_99I0f4s

I do have and use the one in the vid but also use a cotton bud with some lee lube and get the same effect
if you can get your head around what your mate is telling you you will understand why you should lube the inside of the neck when using a set of sizing dies that have an expander button

you can also use bushing dies or lee collet dies and wont have the problem
glad you got a resolve

[TassieTiger]

I do use a graphite for expander die - if I forget to do so, it screeches and grated and carry’s on. I case lube on a rolling pad and then dip the neck into graphite powder...
His point is that expander button was set way too high in the die - but I thought that the expander die simply reamed the neck for bullet seating and had nothing to do with shoulder?

[Bills Shed]

I do use a graphite for expander die - if I forget to do so, it screeches and grated and carry’s on. I case lube on a rolling pad and then dip the neck into graphite powder...
His point is that expander button was set way too high in the die - but I thought that the expander die simply reamed the neck for bullet seating and had nothing to do with shoulder?

It does not ream the inside of the neck but stretches the brass to the correct size. Ream would infer that you are removing metal.
If you think the case shoulder is being stretched when withdrawing the expander ball, you are doing something wrong. No offence meant. It really sounds like that neck brass is really hard, considering small cracks and screatching when withdrawing the expander ball. New lap brass may solve the issue in the short term but it still work hardens. Brass is brass and no name branding will change that.
Bill

[TassieTiger]

Agreed Bill but if I Fark up the lapua brass I’ll punch myself...

I’m still learning the correct terminologies associated with reloading.

When setting up the fl die, it states to set the deprime pin 3-8 lower than the die base. I wound this pin up into the die, so nothing was protruding, in fact the deprime pin (of which the expander ball is attached), was recessed maybe 1/2 inch into the body of the die...it’s this that he is saying was causing the neck angle change.

Anyways - what ever the fug it was...I’ll probably just fondle and stare at the lap cases for a week before doing anything. I can’t really afford to be buying them but...They are pretty. They are beautiful.

[Member-Deleted]

Hey Tassie tiger mate i'm a little slow at learning and I had some gun issues like you when I bought my 7mm mag with the help of a few blokes on here and some learning of my own I sorted it out of sorts I eventually set my FL die up with a fired brass that had a light load so as not to deform or lengthen it too much if any then I set the primer pin remover to 5mm below the die I then found that the brass after FL sizing was hard to remove from the balled sizer on the primer remover I was told to use a dry lube and it's the one that's mentioned on here somewhere mines '' Imperial dry neck lube'' put only the first 10mm of the neck in and give it a couple of twists and you'll have no more sticking also I use ''One Shot'' lube for my brass when i'm sizing don't over do it or you'll get denting in the shoulder of the shell but other than that if the shell is trimmed to proper length all should run smooth i'm probably a little late with this but i'm no expert I keep it as simple as possible mainly for my own sake cheers

[TassieTiger]

Hey Tassie tiger mate i'm a little slow at learning and I had some gun issues like you when I bought my 7mm mag with the help of a few blokes on here and some learning of my own I sorted it out of sorts I eventually set my FL die up with a fired brass that had a light load so as not to deform or lengthen it too much if any then I set the primer pin remover to 5mm below the die I then found that the brass after FL sizing was hard to remove from the balled sizer on the primer remover I was told to use a dry lube and it's the one that's mentioned on here somewhere mines '' Imperial dry neck lube'' put only the first 10mm of the neck in and give it a couple of twists and you'll have no more sticking also I use ''One Shot'' lube for my brass when i'm sizing don't over do it or you'll get denting in the shoulder of the shell but other than that if the shell is trimmed to proper length all should run smooth i'm probably a little late with this but i'm no expert I keep it as simple as possible mainly for my own sake cheers

Im hearing you. I think the looser dimensions of the previous steyr 06 i had let me get away with small mistakes where’s this sauer is saying “no asshat, do it properly!”...

[Member-Deleted]

Yeah mate bit like golf hey

[marksman]

it does sound like you didn't have the expander button set right but your mate has sorted that
the idea of the graphite is to let the expander slip through the neck with any force in the neck, if you are getting screeching or it is hard to pull the expander through the neck you can be pulling the neck out of shape and that is the reason precision freaks use bushing dies or lee collet dies for better concentricity
the good thing about these type of die is straight ammo and no need for lubrication

[Stix]

Hey Tas...for what its worth, when i neck size primed brass, i pull the decapping pin out alltogether & wind the stem with expander ball back down to where it was.

Its a pain to do...especially when you forget to put the pin back in the die & its not there next time you go to size & deprime some brass...but still i think its the best way to go for neck sizing primed brass...

[Sergeant Hartman]

Simple solution stix, get a universal depriming die

[TassieTiger]

Raises a question - can you use a FL resize die to neck size only??
I have some lapua brass coming and want to make sure I do this lot correct....

[bladeracer]

Raises a question - can you use a FL resize die to neck size only??
I have some lapua brass coming and want to make sure I do this lot correct....

Yes, just set the die up so it doesn't bump the shoulder.

[Oldbloke]

Raises a question - can you use a FL resize die to neck size only??
I have some lapua brass coming and want to make sure I do this lot correct....

Yes, just set the die up so it doesn't bump the shoulder.

Thats what I do. Seems to work.

[Apollo]

Raises a question - can you use a FL resize die to neck size only??
I have some lapua brass coming and want to make sure I do this lot correct....

I believe you can by lifting the die higher in the press.

Never tried it as I have never needed to, all the die sets I own have a neck die. Funny thing, most of those haven't been used here for years since most all my reloading is done using In-Line Dies using an Arbor Press.

Other than using the likes of a Forster Coaxial Press, floating dies and expensive bushing dies I would be using the Lee Collet Dies of which I have one set. Don't really like them but they produce very straight accurate reloads.

[TassieTiger]

Raises a question - can you use a FL resize die to neck size only??
I have some lapua brass coming and want to make sure I do this lot correct....

Yes, just set the die up so it doesn't bump the shoulder.

Sorry if this is stupid - do you put a spacer or something in between the shell holder and die base to ensure your only going down a certain depth?

[SCJ429]

Just raise the die, by unscrewing it, in your press. Try raising it until you only size 1/10 of the neck and see how they shoot.

[Apollo]

If you go with the die factory suggested settings, say tighten the die down until it touches the shell holder.... then back the die out like one full turn or two and see what it does to the neck. If you use graphite on your case necks you will see how far the die is sizing down the neck. Then adjust from there up or down. Remember the settings for next time.

BTW... I have been using graphite to lubricate case necks inside and out for gee... 40 odd years. You should not feel any great resistance when the sizing button comes back out of the case neck. If you do, something is wrong.

I used to use a Match Box with graphite it in way back in the 70's, these days it's the Redding Dry Lube container and I top it up with just standard graphite powder.

That's if I ever use standard dies with a button.

[Apollo]

Just raise the die, by unscrewing it, in your press. Try raising it until you only size 1/10 of the neck and see how they shoot.

I think you might need quite a bit more than 1/10th of a case neck.

Unless you are a crazy target shooter like I am and have just enough neck tension that you can't pull the bullet out with your fingers....JUST....

[marksman]

Raises a question - can you use a FL resize die to neck size only??
I have some lapua brass coming and want to make sure I do this lot correct....

Yes, just set the die up so it doesn't bump the shoulder.

Sorry if this is stupid - do you put a spacer or something in between the shell holder and die base to ensure your only going down a certain depth?

you can set the fld up with a washer about 1-2 mm thick for using a fld to neck size

[TassieTiger]

I’ve got a dry lube for inside necks - it’s got thousands of little white balls that appear to produce graphite. Think Lyman’s but not at home to check.

Thanks for advice. Will practice a few on some old cases and test chamber before focusing on lapua brass.
Was thinking I’d need to buy 3 x neck dies so thank you all.

[Apollo]

It's probably Imperial Application Media Dry Neck Lube and the "lube" does run out so you need to replace it from time to time... Either the Imperial Dry Lube or a bottle of Graphite Powder from your Auto Shop/Bunnings is a lot cheaper by miles....same stuff.

[SCJ429]

Just raise the die, by unscrewing it, in your press. Try raising it until you only size 1/10 of the neck and see how they shoot.

I think you might need quite a bit more than 1/10th of a case neck.

Unless you are a crazy target shooter like I am and have just enough neck tension that you can't pull the bullet out with your fingers....JUST....

There was a 6BR 30 cal wildcat made by Stan Ware which had almost no neck but shot awesomely. Makes you think about how much neck and neck tension you really need.

If you try sizing a small part of the neck you can see if it is enough to hold the pill straight and to stop it falling out. Some reloader may have no way of reducing neck tension but you could try resizing only part of the neck to reduce the amount of surface holding onto the pill. No harm in a little experimentation and Tassie might see a little improvement.

[SCJ429]

I’ve got a dry lube for inside necks - it’s got thousands of little white balls that appear to produce graphite. Think Lyman’s but not at home to check.

Thanks for advice. Will practice a few on some old cases and test chamber before focusing on lapua brass.
Was thinking I’d need to buy 3 x neck dies so thank you all.

The little ceramic balls are just media to hold the powder in suspension. When you run out of powder just add some more to the container.

[Apollo]

Isn't a 6BR 30 Cal a 30BR...??? Of which I have a couple but they do have a neck and up to 300m are just accurate... 200 mostly, score shooting.

The beauty of the 30BR is virtually zero barrel wear...