target .243

[SCJ429]

I just want the Ackley because it looks so much cooler than the standard 20 degree shoulders. Sending pills out at over 4000 fps is an added bonus.

What sort of groups are you getting at 400 that are scary accurate Azza? I am happy as if I can shoot a three inch group at 500 but then the guy next to me will shoot a one inch screamer in the same conditions.

[duncan61]

If you shoot 1 inch at 500 metres on target you have shot a perfect score with the super v being 72mm.I suppose it can be done

[AZZA'S HJ47]

I just want the Ackley because it looks so much cooler than the standard 20 degree shoulders. Sending pills out at over 4000 fps is an added bonus.

What sort of groups are you getting at 400 that are scary accurate Azza? I am happy as if I can shoot a three inch group at 500 but then the guy next to me will shoot a one inch screamer in the same conditions.

Have done 2 inch groups at 400 im not saying that i do this every day but when all goes to plan its has been done a few times

[Apollo]

From what I can deduce 90gn will be my heaviest bullet that will stabilize in my 1:10 HOWA.Has anyone developed a target load for .243

Well, I have a Tikka T3 and a Sako 85 in .243W. The Tikka T3 in standard mode has a blued barrel and I've shot 100gr Sierra's with good hunting accuracy but it's shot quite a few rounds over the years. I got a stainless barrel with only a handful of rounds shot of a member at another forum as I wanted to set up an accurate Factory Class Rifle for 300m. I have shot quite a few different bullets and weights over the years but for a target grade I went for the 90gr Berger BT.

I did some testing, not a lot as I pretty much knew what would work at 300m best. I did try the 95gr Berger VLD's and they were not very stable at all. Then the 90gr BT's which gave me a 1st Place the first shoot it entered and a 2nd place at another shoot, just a point difference which could well have been just me having a bad day.

At my testing range at home, about 200 yards give or take I settled on a load that gave me well under 1/2 MOA. Like 4/5 shots touching and one just out which I'm sure I could fix with a bit more tweaking but I don't like wasting too many rounds in a .243W. The load I went with twice was 42.5gr AR2209 with bullets set to a 0.010" jam so with my light neck tension they are soft seated on the lands. These are Moly Coated bullets as I need to shoot 50 rounds for a competition and I don't like cleaning at all during the day shooting. So, you may need to drop the charge a bit for naked bullets. I don't chase velocity so I don't know their velocity, I chase accuracy.

Now, the same bullets and load with the same barrel but in a fully bedded Sako 85 Action is more accurate again. Then again the stainless fluted Sako Barrel is even more accurate from the few tests I have done but not used in a full competition as yet but coming up soon. Best I've done with the Sako 85 at 300m at home once was a 5 shot group of 0.65" in perfect conditions.

I have tested lighter bullets with great accuracy at shorter ranges but I wanted to go on the heavy side especially if the wind comes up.

A mate has tried a number of different bullets and powder but can't come close to the accuracy so he's been on the bottom of the list.

All barrels can be swapped between the Tikka or Sako, the Sako is the best accuracy and all are 1:10 Twist Factory Barrels.

Hope that helps.

[Blr243]

Thanks for the info. Apart from the levergun I have a Sauer 100 also in 243

[SCJ429]

I too chase accuracy but at a decent velocity. It helps in the wind.

[Apollo]

I too chase accuracy but at a decent velocity. It helps in the wind.

Well, I don't know if I'm out of place here so here goes.

In most calibres there are at least two accuracy nodes, sometimes three but the higher accuracy nodes do not necessarily bring consistent accuracy over say a whole match day. Quite often as I have found the lower velocity node give better overall results. I don't shoot 1,000 yards but know those that do and they try for the highest velocity....?? Only shot 1,000 yards twice so I'm a nobody there.

I would think that wind reading skills take over a lot in distance shooting rather than just pushing a bullet as hard as you can.

Anyway, I'd better spend more time tuning my skills for the 500m Nationals next month.... You going...???

[on_one_wheel]

My .243 has 9 1/8 twist and likes 100 grain projectiles.

I started out on 2208 and found a good load for it but I was left with a heap of empty space, I then switched to 2209 to better fill the cases.

At one point I had it humming along pretty well with a reasonably warm load but have since reduced my charge to a very mild 38.5 grains of 2209 giving me a lazy but highly consistent (1/2" @100m) 2850 fps

I reduced my loads mainly because I was doing lots of shooting at close ranges on goats and roos, I simply didn't need to burn my barrel out and stress my brass with hot loads.
Another good thing about the mild loads is that my barrel doesn't foul anywhere near as fast as with the hot loads.

After previous correspondence, MR SCJ429 has me wanting to load it up hot again when he reminded me just how much Im leaving on the table. (Dam you MR SCJ !)
After all, I'm not hammering the .243 like I use to, I've got a .223 for that work now and I'm almost due for a reloading session for the .243 ... I just wish I hadn't lost my old data.

[SCJ429]

I too chase accuracy but at a decent velocity. It helps in the wind.

In most calibres there are at least two accuracy nodes, sometimes three but the higher accuracy nodes do not necessarily bring consistent accuracy over say a whole match day. Quite often as I have found the lower velocity node give better overall


Anyway, I'd better spend more time tuning my skills for the 500m Nationals next month.... You going...???

Just trying to learn here so let me know if I am wrong... My understanding is that your barrel vibrations can be represented by a sine wave and you find your nodes at the top and bottom of the waves. You want your bullet to exit when the vabration is at its calmest so any number of speeds from the slowest to the fastest could intercept the top or bottom of the sine wave. If you are going fast but not yet at a node, just keep going faster until you find it.....or your primers fall out the back of your case.

I have never shot at Batemans Bay. I should probably stop making excuses and get along.

[SCJ429]

My .243 has 9 1/8 twist and likes 100 grain projectiles.

I started out on 2208 and found a good load for it but I was left with a heap of empty space, I then switched to 2209 to better fill the cases.

At one point I had it humming along pretty well with a reasonably warm load but have since reduced my charge to a very mild 38.5 grains of 2209 giving me a lazy but highly consistent (1/2" @100m) 2850 fps

I reduced my loads mainly because I was doing lots of shooting at close ranges on goats and roos, I simply didn't need to burn my barrel out and stress my brass with hot loads.
Another good thing about the mild loads is that my barrel doesn't foul anywhere near as fast as with the hot loads.

After previous correspondence, MR SCJ429 has me wanting to load it up hot again when he reminded me just how much Im leaving on the table. (Dam you MR SCJ !)
After all, I'm not hammering the .243 like I use to, I've got a .223 for that work now and I'm almost due for a reloading session for the .243 ... I just wish I hadn't lost my old data.

Don't blame me, you don't get onto one wheel if you don't give it a little gas. I think the 243 is a great case if you want to see how fast you can go. No need to be conservative with this case but let us know how you go.

[Apollo]

Well, in my understanding too and I'm not what you would call an expert but I try and listen to my mentors who were when they had time Annie & Stuart Elliott. Australian Hall of Fame members. A few others that have and/or still shoot at International Level in Benchrest. My other mentor is one of these silly Full Bore / F-Class guys a number of years old than I am...sorry, that was a PUN...he's my Gunsmith.

Yes, the barrel vibration is probably a sine wave but who says its verticle, if could be 90 degrees to verticle. The idea is in my mind to pick that vibration that is constant even with a slight variation in the shooting conditions, your powder load and/or case/bullet slight weight variations. You need the bullet to exit the barrel at the same point of time in that vibration each and every time you pull the trigger.

Also, just in my view is that the harder you push the velocity the tighter that accuracy node gets and any change can turn a very tight accuracy into a miss....lower score.

At lower velocities / mid range I have found that the sweet spot for that barrel vibration is wider in the lower nodes so greater margin for error. Just my views.

You should come to Batemans Bay, great people and this time it's over three days depending what category you enter or not. I'm not sure if I'm going to enter the 200 Yard Rimfire as all I have is a Rabbit Gun, Brno Model 2 but last time I went in that class I gave the best with their expensive target rifles a run for their money at the top.

[SCJ429]

Also, just in my view is that the harder you push the velocity the tighter that accuracy node gets and any change can turn a very tight accuracy into a miss....lower score.

At lower velocities / mid range I have found that the sweet spot for that barrel vibration is wider in the lower nodes so greater margin for error. Just my views.

top.

My understanding is that the speed of the pressure wave or profile of the sine wave is determined by the profile and length of your barrel. A thicker shorter barrel has a calmer sine wave than the long whippy barrel, and so it would have larger nodes. The speed of the projectile would not change the frequency that the barrel vibrates at. Not saying that I understand the science but this is my take.

[Apollo]

I'm not going to argue the point of science / physics so I agree with your first part but not the last.

To make just a short reply my belief is the faster the bullet travels then the shorter margin you have for that node (sine wave) to enable an exit at close to the ideal timing of the muzzle exit.

As I said, I'm not going to argue these points. It's not the topic. Perhaps a thread on ballistics / bullets / barrels.... go to the Accurate Shooter Site and join the topics by Bryan Litz and close to that those inputs by the Berger Team yet alone then Eric Cortina who as a long range (ie 1,000 yard) shooter (Team Lapua) has on his topic of testing at 100 yards for long range. In our own ball park here in Oz the input on long range (1,000 yards) that HOF Stuart Elliott has made on various Forums when he had the time to comment.

I have done my own testing at home where I have the time to pick conditions and what I have said I believe is the case. I have never had consistent accuracy over a whole day of competition shooting with using the highest velocity accurate loads. Just my story sorry and from some others who have done very well over the years at competition target shooting.

BTW... Two comments that Stuart Elliott said to me personally many years ago... I have a .243W "shoot it in competition, the 6mm is a very accurate cartridge" and "shoot a .22LR of any description at long range and you will learn about wind reading" then to go with that also "Practise, it will make you a better shooter be it Target /Hunting /Varminting".

Very wise person as is his better half.

[SCJ429]

Thanks for your input Apollo, I have enjoyed the discussion. I love hearing about how other people approach the sport and see if I can use the information to improve my game. Cheers.

[duncan61]

I am enjoying how things change.My .222 Ruger was my go to and the .243 HOWA was my spare.Now the .222 is a safe queen and I am really enjoying the .243.Sounds like I am going to order/purchase 90gn Bergers and make some target ammo soon.My youngest son has let me know he would like to go target shooting Saturday morning.Thanks Apollo.Just what I was looking for

[Apollo]

If the youngster wants to go target shooting then take out the .222. In years gone past they held many longer range accuracy records until things a bit better came along. But the barrel life of a .222 is much much greater than the rather short accuracy life of a .243W. He will have a lot of fun with the .222 and it won't kick like the .243W does so that will help his accuracy skills.

Bit off the point but I have two target rifles and two different barrels chambered in 30BR that I did usually take to a target range with me for the time when someone, usually youngster didn't have access to a dedicated expensive target rifle. They really enjoyed shooting something so accurate with one young fella who was left handed, shooting right handed and put 5 shots in one hole at 200 metres. He couldn't wait to show his father...who said "no, you aren't having one"...!!!!

I didn't mind and had a laugh at the comment I was expecting, the March Scope alone was worth 4 grand. 30BR, well as far as I know, nobody has ever worn out a barrel after quite some several thousand rounds down the tube.

[duncan61]

The son is 26 years old and weighs a metric tonne.I forgot to mention that.I took him to the farm recently and handed him the .222 and his weapons handling was perfect and he head shot roos in under 3 seconds and never missed.He has sat in a room doing shootem up computer games for as long as I can remember.He has only just returned to Australia and is staying here.I was amazed it took the Army 6 months and a million dollars to get my skills to that level.He has used the 7mm on paper at the farm.If he chooses the 7mm I might have a go with the .243.You normally only shoot one detail 3 plus 10 but we could put up our names twice and switch over and do it again

[in2anity]

The son is 26 years old and weighs a metric tonne.I forgot to mention that.I took him to the farm recently and handed him the .222 and his weapons handling was perfect and he head shot roos in under 3 seconds and never missed.He has sat in a room doing shootem up computer games for as long as I can remember.He has only just returned to Australia and is staying here.I was amazed it took the Army 6 months and a million dollars to get my skills to that level.He has used the 7mm on paper at the farm.If he chooses the 7mm I might have a go with the .243.You normally only shoot one detail 3 plus 10 but we could put up our names twice and switch over and do it again

I have this (unsubstantiated) theory that particularly for supported-style shooting, it can actually be detrimental to be very fit and muscular. Muscles seem to twitch more than fat. Not so much unsupported though - strength helps delay the shakes a bit for offhand shooting, meaning you can go for a little longer before you have take the weight off.