Shoulder issues with FL die?

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Shoulder issues with FL die?

Post by Cal-ApeR » 24 May 2019, 7:26 pm

Gents, I don't profess to know all that much about reloading. Learning more each day. Go easy on me.

Yesterday I loaded up some 85gr Sierra GK for 243 in PPU brass. I thought I'd start with the recommended COAL set in Sierra guide - 2.650". All good...... Not really.

Got to the range, noticed bolt close wasn't easy. I had some 95 noslers which closed perfectly (Winchester brass). Anyway, got through 10 or so and then all of a sudden bolt close was way too hard. I didn't feel comfortable shooting. I pulled out and could swear the projectile had rifling marks?!# anyway, I kept moving along my reloads until I found a round that fit, all good. I then decided to retry the ones that were hard to shut. Suddenly the bolt now closes without too much trouble, still a little stiff. What the hell?

Spoke with an old bloke at the range, he said it sounds like the shoulder wasn't resized properly and that my FL die might be set wrong. Thoughts?

Brass is getting a little old probably 5 reloads. Was FL resized and trimmed. It is PPU but I've typically found it ok for hunting brass and haven't come across this before. I have old Lee dies but have access to Redding to try great out. I am thinking of FL resizing in the Redding dies and then doing a dummy round to see how it chambers.

Despite all this, my groups were hunting adequate and I've sighted on for this load. .5" - 3/4" groups.

Any help is MOST appreciated!
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Re: Shoulder issues with FL die?

Post by TassieTiger » 24 May 2019, 7:46 pm

Been in a similar situation recently.
I lowered the die in the press 2 x full turns and make sure your expander ball is set correctly - should fix the issue.
Chamber a few resized cases to ensure bolt will close before proceeding...
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Re: Shoulder issues with FL die?

Post by marksman » 24 May 2019, 8:20 pm

the problem can be either way
it can be that your die is not sizing the case down enough but I doubt it as you would have been able to close the bolt without resistance after firing because you have not complained about a hard bolt lift after shooting these cases
IMHO I think you have the die to low and what is happening is your case is bulging at the shoulder junction after sizing

if you have a case that has not been sized but is fired from your chamber try chambering, then if the case chambers fine you are changing the shape of the case shoulder at the junction when fl sizing because your die is pushing the shoulder area out of shape, size the case and try it after being able to chamber a fired unsized case

it would also be no worries to force the bolt closed and shoot the round straight again, as long as you dont need to hammer the bolt closed
when you fire the round it will return to the shape of your chamber

I could be wrong who knows but it is worth a try
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Re: Shoulder issues with FL die?

Post by SCJ429 » 24 May 2019, 8:43 pm

If the case came out of your rifle I don't think it is the shoulder is stopping you from chambering the case. Check the case lenght and trim if required, wind your die into the press until it kisses the shell holder and then wind it back 1/4 turn. And recheck your Coal. Then tell us if you still have issues.
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Re: Shoulder issues with FL die?

Post by Oldbloke » 25 May 2019, 10:17 am

Cal-ApeR wrote:
Yesterday I loaded up some 85gr Sierra GK for 243 in PPU brass. I thought I'd start with the recommended COAL set in Sierra guide - 2.650". All good...... Not really.

Got to the range, noticed bolt close wasn't easy. I had some 95 noslers which closed perfectly (Winchester brass). Anyway, got through 10 or so and then all of a sudden bolt close was way too hard. I didn't feel comfortable shooting. I pulled out and could swear the projectile had rifling marks?!# anyway, I kept moving along my reloads until I found a round that fit, all good. I then decided to retry the ones that were hard to shut. Suddenly the bolt now closes without too much trouble, still a little stiff. What the hell?

Spoke with an old bloke at the range, he said it sounds like the shoulder wasn't resized properly and that my FL die might be set wrong. Thoughts?


Any help is MOST appreciated!


Sounds to me the bullet is is seated too far out and jammed into the lands. The first time you tried to chamber them you may have forced the bullet into the case a little making it easier to chamber next time around.
Re check seating depth.

This topic explains 2 common ways to find seating depth.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11941&start=18
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Re: Shoulder issues with FL die?

Post by marksman » 25 May 2019, 11:24 am

here's a post I did on how I setup to full length size cases, I do not own an OAL gauge setup
but after you fls you can do the exact thing with a bullet in your case seating it in small increments to find how long your COAL is exactly
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=11560

I still recon you have bulged case shoulder though :drinks:
let us know how you go :thumbsup:
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Re: Shoulder issues with FL die?

Post by Daz243 » 25 May 2019, 1:12 pm

I had the same issue when i first loaded these into S & B brass. I have Tikka T3 lite and I found I had to seat the projectiles deeper than that and haven't had any issues since.
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Re: Shoulder issues with FL die?

Post by Oldbloke » 25 May 2019, 4:55 pm

This seems the key point,

"I pulled out and could swear the projectile had rifling marks?!"
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Re: Shoulder issues with FL die?

Post by Cal-ApeR » 25 May 2019, 6:47 pm

Well old bloke. I think you're right. I still need to check a few things without the kids around but had a little muck about today.

I FL resized in my old man's dies. I then seated a bullet at 2.650" as per the manual. Nope stiff as buggery on the bolt close. Marks again on the projectile. Remeasured and the depth is now down to 2.630". Am curious as the manual recommends the coal as 2.650. I would have thought this was a safe bet in terms of seating depth?

To be sure, I also performed this with Winchester and PPU brass. Similar measurements in the end.

I'm thinking I will seat don't I at the 2.630" mark or a little further in as these closed fairly easily. For what it's worth, it's a chubby little bullet. The 95gr I stayed further out had no issues but it is a fair bit longer.

Any idea why my chamber is the way it is? Do you think it is definitely the seating depth as I now think? I don't think it's the shoulder as I first expected.
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Re: Shoulder issues with FL die?

Post by TassieTiger » 25 May 2019, 6:53 pm

Why don’t you test chamber some brass before seating a bullet to rule out a few things?
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
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Re: Shoulder issues with FL die?

Post by Oldbloke » 25 May 2019, 8:10 pm

Sooo, when i reload after sizing a few cases i check they all chamber ok. Then resize the rest. I then prime, charge and seat bullet. After seating just a few bullets i then again check they chamber ok. If ok then complete reloading.


(FYI) The ADI Manual says for a 85 GR. BAR TSX 2.620"
Due to manufacturing variations each rifle and bullet batch will vary to some degree. Every combination will vary to some degree.

Go back to basics and determin COL touching lands and then seat the bullets about 0.020 off the lands.
Should fix the problem.
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Re: Shoulder issues with FL die?

Post by Daz243 » 25 May 2019, 8:40 pm

I found I needed to seat the 85 bthp 2.585 where as for the 87 v-max they seat at 2.640. Both these give an approx 10-15 thou from touching the rifling in the T3.
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Re: Shoulder issues with FL die?

Post by marksman » 25 May 2019, 10:49 pm

each individual rifle will have a different throat depth as well as each different make of projectile will have a different shaped ogive
that's why you should be measuring from the ogive and not the point, what you have explained shows you are getting different lengths at the ogive
what the reloading books give you is a one size fits all sammi length that can be very wrong

the reason I did not think it would be your COAL is because if your round is longer than your COAL you still should be able to chamber the round unless your neck tension is very very high, the bolt should only be slightly harder than normal to close, how hard is it to seat your bullet :unknown:
you would have heard about guys having there bullet into the lands then opening the bolt and the bullet being stuck in the throat
with that neck tension you wont have that problem

anyway it's sounds like you may be onto a solution, if you use my method in the above post you will get precise measurements :drinks:
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Re: Shoulder issues with FL die?

Post by Cal-ApeR » 26 May 2019, 11:22 am

Thanks Gents. Will have a little more of a play in the next few days when the kids aren't at my feet.

I did forget to mention that I chambered done resized brass from different makes prior to testing out my coal on the 85gr hpbt. No problems there. A few lessons already learnt here.

Marksman, bullets seated fine and they definitely moved deeper in the case upon closing the bolt. Between 10-20thou. 2.650 ended up around the 2.630 mark. When I some time free, I'll follow your method too.
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