New Winchester brass...yes or no...?

[Stix]

As title suggests...

New Win brass...is it any good once prepped etc.?

[madang55]

Only one way to find out. We all have our favorites. Personally, never really had a problem. I don't know why, but I have always been wary of Hornady brass. Some people go to 4 decimal places with everything, 2 is fine for me.

[bladeracer]

As title suggests...

New Win brass...is it any good once prepped etc.?

New stuff I can't recommend.
I've bought .243, .30-30 and .30-06 recently and I don't think they're annealing them well at all.

If you're getting it cheap enough to not expect too much you can make them work, but Winchester is at the bottom of the list for me.

[bigrich]

As title suggests...

New Win brass...is it any good once prepped etc.?

New stuff I can't recommend.
I've bought .243, .30-30 and .30-06 recently and I don't think they're annealing them well at all.

If you're getting it cheap enough to not expect too much you can make them work, but Winchester is at the bottom of the list for me.

I agree. I’ve reused rem brass and it’s ok, Hornady brass for hornet has been pretty good. Most of any new brass I buy has been Norma. For the money I reckon Remington brass is okay. Has anyone used Starline brass for rifle cartridges ?

[gunnnie]

I'm running Starling brass for my 38-55. I'm using the 2.125" long brass in a Winchester Model94 and I haven't had any issues to date. Think I'm on reload number 4 or 5 from memory.

Also using StarLine brass for 44-40 & 32-20, also in Winchesters, Model 92's. Aside from the usual issues of 44-40 brass being thin at the neck, it's been good. Though I quantify that the SL 44-40 brass is thicker in the neck than W-W Super brass.

[bigrich]

I'm running Starling brass for my 38-55. I'm using the 2.125" long brass in a Winchester Model94 and I haven't had any issues to date. Think I'm on reload number 4 or 5 from memory.

Also using StarLine brass for 44-40 & 32-20, also in Winchesters, Model 92's. Aside from the usual issues of 44-40 brass being thin at the neck, it's been good. Though I quantify that the SL 44-40 brass is thicker in the neck than W-W Super brass.

Thanks for the recommendations gunnie, I’m looking at getting some for 358 win

[marksman]

I've never used new winchester brass but do like the second hand range picked up stuff after it has been prepared

[straightshooter]

Just recently I have had 25 or 26 reloads out of a batch of 120 once fired Winchester cases.
Neck turned, primer pocket uniformed, trimmed to length and annealed.
At about 20 reloads wear or erosion inside the necks left the projectiles somewhat loose with my tightest bushing so I then used a Lee collet die.
At 25 to 26 reloads some cases had a bright ring near the web and one showed a crack and some leakage so they were scrapped.
There was no full length sizing at all for the life of the cases but there was one only trim to length.
How do I know, I kept an accurate round count for that barrel.

[bladeracer]

I've never used new winchester brass but do like the second hand range picked up stuff after it has been prepared

I have a batch of once-fired Winchester .223 and it's not bad at all, it's the new unprimed stuff that is a problem.

[Stix]

I've never used new winchester brass but do like the second hand range picked up stuff after it has been prepared

I have a batch of once-fired Winchester .223 and it's not bad at all, it's the new unprimed stuff that is a problem.

So is there an actual difference between the brass from factory loaded ammo, to the unprimed new brass...?

One would naturally assume it all comes from the same place...

[Cal-ApeR]

Really? How is the unprimed brass any different? From a marketing/cost perspective it doesn't really make sense to change it up.

Fwiw I've never had a orientation with Wiinie brass but I don't comp shoot or anything. Works well for hunting and plinking.

[marksman]

Just recently I have had 25 or 26 reloads out of a batch of 120 once fired Winchester cases.
Neck turned, primer pocket uniformed, trimmed to length and annealed.
At about 20 reloads wear or erosion inside the necks left the projectiles somewhat loose with my tightest bushing so I then used a Lee collet die.
At 25 to 26 reloads some cases had a bright ring near the web and one showed a crack and some leakage so they were scrapped.
There was no full length sizing at all for the life of the cases but there was one only trim to length.
How do I know, I kept an accurate round count for that barrel.

sh!t straightshooter some times ya just cant win

before getting into lapua brass I used winchester range pickup cases all the time, still do
as some of you will be aware I am a little micro (anal) about case prep, something to do with OCD I am told
and if I remember I prepped 500 30-06 cases to get 200 that were within the range I was using
very micro but the guys who were given the other cases thought I was a good bloke
the cases were magic and like straightshooter 25 reloads were the norm
I cant say anything about the new stuff but winchester does get their supplies from different sources
you can tell by the quality of brass and the head stamp being different

[bladeracer]

I've never used new winchester brass but do like the second hand range picked up stuff after it has been prepared

I have a batch of once-fired Winchester .223 and it's not bad at all, it's the new unprimed stuff that is a problem.

So is there an actual difference between the brass from factory loaded ammo, to the unprimed new brass...?

One would naturally assume it all comes from the same place...

Yep, doesn't make any sense to me either
I bought new .243 and it was crap, then I bought a pile of once-fired .223 with some Winchester in it and found it pretty good. So when I was chasing .30-06, I got a deal of $200 for 500, so I thought I'd try again and ordered some .30-30 as well.

[flutch]

Some people must have some fussy as f*** rifles, my 223 and 270 both shoot just fine with a whole plethora of different factory ammo and brass, honestly for the life of me don't understand what 99% of the drama is about, use what you can buy

[bigrich]

Some people must have some fussy as f*** rifles, my 223 and 270 both shoot just fine with a whole plethora of different factory ammo and brass, honestly for the life of me don't understand what 99% of the drama is about, use what you can buy

Yeah well, some people, whether their OCD or just like the challenge, chase the best accuracy they can get . That includes getting the best brass ya can for reasons of neck tension and brass life, ect. Some brass has it’s quirks, like the s&b brass I use in my 357 magnum lever gun. All the primer pockets were a bit tight when came time to reload, and needed a little work. To save $ ,some factory federal brass I shot in my 222 had been made 20 thou shorter than trim length from the factory. Whether or not that would effect accuracy is debatable, but I junked this fed brass anyway. JMHO

[straightshooter]

There is no mystery as to variation in brass from a single manufacturer so there is no need to concoct any theories.
As the manufacturer buys in a supply of brass coil for the various manufacturing process to produce brass cases there will be slight but acceptable variations in alloy composition and hardness. When subjected to the manufacturer's standard production process inevitably there will be some variation seen in different lot numbers of brass.
Variation was exacerbated a few years ago when US manufacturers couldn't keep up with demand and no prizes for guessing where slightly inferior or even troublesome lots could have ended up.

[TassieTiger]

Some people must have some fussy as f*** rifles, my 223 and 270 both shoot just fine with a whole plethora of different factory ammo and brass, honestly for the life of me don't understand what 99% of the drama is about, use what you can buy

You dont reload then...?

[flutch]

You dont reload then...?

All the time, why try and make that misnomer?

My rifles clover leaf all day every day, I don't go to even half the pedantic steps others do, honestly can't see why they bother....

[TassieTiger]

Reason I assumed was because with some brass, you notice irregularities in wall thickness, in base thickness - from brass to brass.
This can result in a case becoming compressed with some loads and have large spaces with others.
You reload so You’d know thatctgis can and will increase speed-change point of impact, sometimes by inches.

Then there is the issue of longevity - with irregularities as mentioned above, reloaders might only obtain 2-3 reloads from some thin wall cases, calling into scrutiny the purchase price vs another more consistent brass provider...

Then there is tolerance accuracy on all brass...I bought some 223 Remington brass once that was all a fraction over trim to length size, meaning extra work from the off...

And so on...

[bigrich]

You dont reload then...?

All the time, why try and make that misnomer?

My rifles clover leaf all day every day, I don't go to even half the pedantic steps others do, honestly can't see why they bother....

Well flutch, that’s great that you’re getting that sort of accuracy and performance out of your rifles without being overly pedantic. Some fellas rifles might not be as good as yours and need the extra work to give their best. Some folks try to attain the best they can just cause they want to. What rifles are you loading for mate ? You mentioned 223 and 270. What loads are you using ? And what brands of brass ?

[flutch]

You dont reload then...?

All the time, why try and make that misnomer?

My rifles clover leaf all day every day, I don't go to even half the pedantic steps others do, honestly can't see why they bother....

Well flutch, that’s great that you’re getting that sort of accuracy and performance out of your rifles without being overly pedantic. Some fellas rifles might not be as good as yours and need the extra work to give their best. Some folks try to attain the best they can just cause they want to. What rifles are you loading for mate ? You mentioned 223 and 270. What loads are you using ? And what brands of brass ?

A combo of different brass, mostly Winchester Hornady and ppu, have consistent results across all of those for the 223, all my 270 brass is both ppu and Winchester (I was able to buy ppu for south of $20 a pack) all were factory rounds before, I trim and anneal every few reloads, and full size each reload, use a thrower and don't trickle.

223 I am loading with 25gn 2206h and Nosler Varmageddons 55gn

270 I am reloading 45gn 2208 with 130gn Hornady SST projies,

Both are loaded using CCI primers.

[TassieTiger]

Must be high end rifles ?

[bigrich]

Sounds like some well sorted loads flutch . What type of thrower are you using. Must be a very accurate thrower. I went back to using Lee powder “dippers” cause depending on the type of powder. I didn’t find mine was consistent enough. What anealing process do you use ? Sit the brass in a tray of water and use a gas torch ? I don’t get into weighing my cases or anything like that. I only trim mine halfway between max and minimum case length. I try to leave plenty of neck for neck tension. This helps with 22 hornet. I get some pretty tight groups the way i’m Doing things, but anealing is the next skill I have to work at . I’m loading for 22 hornet, 222, 6.5x55 and 357 mag in a lever at the moment. Pistol rounds are nice and easy . Cheers

[flutch]

Must be high end rifles ?

From what I've read higher end stuff tends to be fussy as hell, my 270 is a Remington 783 glass bedded to a Boyd stock, and my 223 is a varmint howa pillar bedded to a thumbhole stock

[flutch]

Sounds like some well sorted loads flutch . What type of thrower are you using. Must be a very accurate thrower. I went back to using Lee powder “dippers” cause depending on the type of powder. I didn’t find mine was consistent enough. What anealing process do you use ? Sit the brass in a tray of water and use a gas torch ? I don’t get into weighing my cases or anything like that. I only trim mine halfway between max and minimum case length. I try to leave plenty of neck for neck tension. This helps with 22 hornet. I get some pretty tight groups the way i’m Doing things, but anealing is the next skill I have to work at . I’m loading for 22 hornet, 222, 6.5x55 and 357 mag in a lever at the moment. Pistol rounds are nice and easy . Cheers

Hey it's an old lee thrower, must be a Tuesday build as has no signs of mondayitis or Friday fails,

I anneal using the age old heat till it almost burns my finger and throw it in the tray of water technique, seems to work just fine, Bunnings gas torch.

[TassieTiger]

Sounds like some well sorted loads flutch . What type of thrower are you using. Must be a very accurate thrower. I went back to using Lee powder “dippers” cause depending on the type of powder. I didn’t find mine was consistent enough. What anealing process do you use ? Sit the brass in a tray of water and use a gas torch ? I don’t get into weighing my cases or anything like that. I only trim mine halfway between max and minimum case length. I try to leave plenty of neck for neck tension. This helps with 22 hornet. I get some pretty tight groups the way i’m Doing things, but anealing is the next skill I have to work at . I’m loading for 22 hornet, 222, 6.5x55 and 357 mag in a lever at the moment. Pistol rounds are nice and easy . Cheers

Hey it's an old lee thrower, must be a Tuesday build as has no signs of mondayitis or Friday fails,

I anneal using the age old heat till it almost burns my finger and throw it in the tray of water technique, seems to work just fine, Bunnings gas torch.

Sounds like you've got very lucky with both your rifles and your reloading gear...
Ive tried three powder throwers and they all work 75% of time - so now I only trickle via an auto hornady unit, i dont trust them for any developmental loads. A friend paid an extortionate amount of money for some kick arse job out of the US and even that screws up with stick powders like AR2209.

[bladeracer]

Some people must have some fussy as f*** rifles, my 223 and 270 both shoot just fine with a whole plethora of different factory ammo and brass, honestly for the life of me don't understand what 99% of the drama is about, use what you can buy

My problem with the Winnie stuff is it appears to be annealed poorly, or not annealed at all. It makes it much more difficult to work with than it should be, particularly when sizing it into different cartridges. Once it's been prepped it's not bad, but the prepping is more work that it should be.

[bladeracer]

I bought some 223 Remington brass once that was all a fraction over trim to length size, meaning extra work from the off...

I greatly prefer it to be over-length, so I can prep the batch all to the same length.

[bladeracer]

Sounds like some well sorted loads flutch . What type of thrower are you using. Must be a very accurate thrower. I went back to using Lee powder “dippers” cause depending on the type of powder. I didn’t find mine was consistent enough. What anealing process do you use ? Sit the brass in a tray of water and use a gas torch ? I don’t get into weighing my cases or anything like that. I only trim mine halfway between max and minimum case length. I try to leave plenty of neck for neck tension. This helps with 22 hornet. I get some pretty tight groups the way i’m Doing things, but anealing is the next skill I have to work at . I’m loading for 22 hornet, 222, 6.5x55 and 357 mag in a lever at the moment. Pistol rounds are nice and easy . Cheers

I use the Lee Perfect Powder Measure, and I have been staunchly opposed to not weighing every charge But I tried it to get through a big batch of milsurp loads and it impressed the hell out of me.

I've never worked out how the stand-in-water-under-a-torch theory works, the torch just blows them over when I've tried it The socket-in-a-drill works better.

[TassieTiger]

I bought some 223 Remington brass once that was all a fraction over trim to length size, meaning extra work from the off...

I greatly prefer it to be over-length, so I can prep the batch all to the same length.

I bought some 260 lapua cases a couple of days before I bought the remington 22...was a big difference lol.