New Winchester brass...yes or no...?

[SCJ429]

Must be high end rifles ?

From what I've read higher end stuff tends to be fussy as hell, my 270 is a Remington 783 glass bedded to a Boyd stock, and my 223 is a varmint howa pillar bedded to a thumbhole stock

You have done very well indeed if you can shoot five shot groups where each bullet hole is touching the others all day at 100 metres with a Remington 783 and in 270 which has not got the reputation for being the most inherently accurate case. Just imagine what you could do with a decent barrel in 6mm BR on your rifle, some Lapua brass and some care and attention to your reloading practices.

For the rest of us, getting the best brass we can is the foundation for getting an accurate load together.

[TassieTiger]

Was it noticeably better that the rem?

[SCJ429]

so what IS a good new brass to buy .? without going top end like Lapua etc.?

good, cheap, long lasting brass (for .223)

Sako don't make the brass I believe, I have not been able to confirm this but it may be Norma or RWS. It appears to be quite good in my rifle.

I also like OSA or ADI brass which works very well after a little prep.

[bigrich]

i was getting "white box" tikka branded ammo a while ago and it shot really well in a 22-250 . sako have their own branded ammo. i shot some target load stuff out of my 6.5 chinwester and swede mausers and it was quite good . i figure either norma or lapua make this stuff for tikka and sako, probably to their specs. have you guys seen what genuine weatherby ammo sells for ? on rebels site, 30-378 weatherby with 165 barnes tsx , 20 rounds for $278

[bladeracer]

You have done very well indeed if you can shoot five shot groups where each bullet hole is touching the others all day at 100 metres with a Remington 783 and in 270 which has not got the reputation for being the most inherently accurate case. Just imagine what you could do with a decent barrel in 6mm BR on your rifle, some Lapua brass and some care and attention to your reloading practices.

For the rest of us, getting the best brass we can is the foundation for getting an accurate load together.

Some people can do some amazing things sometimes, which can be damned annoying for people like me that aren't so talented

I had a discussion a while back with a guy on Youtube. Shooting fifty-yard groups of .22LR and referring to them as sub-MoA, despite them being obviously about 30mm groups (bullet holes show their own scale quite well). He was adamant that the app he was using confirms they are sub-MoA. Some people just aren't very bright. He also shot a group at 200yds of .4MoA, but didn't have a photo of it, so I asked him if the 200yd group was smaller than his 50yd groups...no response. Unfortunately, modern kids will accept as gospel whatever an electronic device tells them, rather than simply measure it with a stick and prove their technology to be wrong. .22LR is particularly easy to estimate as a cartridge happens to be exactly one-inch in length

[AZZA'S HJ47]

I haven't seen the new "winchester" brass however ive been so badly burnt by Winchester products id be reluctant to tuch the stuff.

[duncan61]

What is Minute of angle I am guessing it is a line 0 seconds 1 minute 0 degrees of centre

[duncan61]

Its O.K. I googled it

[bladeracer]

What is Minute of angle I am guessing it is a line 0 seconds 1 minute 0 degrees of centre

It's a cone one-sixtieth of one-degree extending out from you forever. 29mm wide at 100m, 58mm wide at 200m, 290mm at 1000m, and so on.

[duncan61]

Thanks blade.I get where flutch is coming from and mostly agree.There is a fair bit of over thinking in making your own but their our toys and if we wish to play we will

[flutch]

Must be high end rifles ?

From what I've read higher end stuff tends to be fussy as hell, my 270 is a Remington 783 glass bedded to a Boyd stock, and my 223 is a varmint howa pillar bedded to a thumbhole stock

You have done very well indeed if you can shoot five shot groups where each bullet hole is touching the others all day at 100 metres with a Remington 783 and in 270 which has not got the reputation for being the most inherently accurate case. Just imagine what you could do with a decent barrel in 6mm BR on your rifle, some Lapua brass and some care and attention to your reloading practices.

For the rest of us, getting the best brass we can is the foundation for getting an accurate load together.

The BS about 270win being innaccurate is hogwash, the bullets have a great BC and plenty of punch means flat shooting, the same could be said for any 80+ year old cartridge yet I'm sure people would get their knickers in a twist if I started picking on other old cartridges, truth is until recently it was only a lack of high BC or Target grade rounds that gave that false reputation, I would pit 270win against most things happily, hell people actually think 308win is amazing for accuracy, which is isn't by default, it's all a matter of what you actually know and looking at it objectively heck after all its a 6.8mm projectile, not unlike 6.5 really.

[bigrich]

The least fussy cartridge I own is 222 . On my old barrel my first batch of loads with 40 gn vmax revealed a load that consistently made one neat hole. With the new 1-12 twist barrel it does that with 60 grain vmax now. The laws of physics haven’t changed and some of the older cartridges were designed well straight up . The fussiest cartridge I shoot is the 22 hornet. But with attention to detail it can shoot very consistently and accurately. The one cartridge I would like to get into is 7x57 Mauser. With modern projectiles it can outdo the creedmore ,to a point . But as I already have the 6.5 Swede it would be doubling up a bit in my view.

[bigrich]

Actually, getting back to flutch’s 30-06 hybrid, the 270 win, the other really accurate cartridge based on the 30-06 is the 6.5-06. If I had the time and money, I would like to play with this. Little bit more speed than the Swede, but not a barrel burner like the 264 win mag. All the different guns and calibers , so little time and money. Lol

[TassieTiger]

You dont reload then...?

All the time, why try and make that misnomer?

My rifles clover leaf all day every day, I don't go to even half the pedantic steps others do, honestly can't see why they bother....

Well flutch, that’s great that you’re getting that sort of accuracy and performance out of your rifles without being overly pedantic. Some fellas rifles might not be as good as yours and need the extra work to give their best. Some folks try to attain the best they can just cause they want to. What rifles are you loading for mate ? You mentioned 223 and 270. What loads are you using ? And what brands of brass ?

A combo of different brass, mostly Winchester Hornady and ppu, have consistent results across all of those for the 223, all my 270 brass is both ppu and Winchester (I was able to buy ppu for south of $20 a pack) all were factory rounds before, I trim and anneal every few reloads, and full size each reload, use a thrower and don't trickle.

223 I am loading with 25gn 2206h and Nosler Varmageddons 55gn

270 I am reloading 45gn 2208 with 130gn Hornady SST projies,

Both are loaded using CCI primers.

What about your beastly 300 win mag? You don’t reload for that?

[flutch]

You dont reload then...?

All the time, why try and make that misnomer?

My rifles clover leaf all day every day, I don't go to even half the pedantic steps others do, honestly can't see why they bother....

Well flutch, that’s great that you’re getting that sort of accuracy and performance out of your rifles without being overly pedantic. Some fellas rifles might not be as good as yours and need the extra work to give their best. Some folks try to attain the best they can just cause they want to. What rifles are you loading for mate ? You mentioned 223 and 270. What loads are you using ? And what brands of brass ?

A combo of different brass, mostly Winchester Hornady and ppu, have consistent results across all of those for the 223, all my 270 brass is both ppu and Winchester (I was able to buy ppu for south of $20 a pack) all were factory rounds before, I trim and anneal every few reloads, and full size each reload, use a thrower and don't trickle.

223 I am loading with 25gn 2206h and Nosler Varmageddons 55gn

270 I am reloading 45gn 2208 with 130gn Hornady SST projies,

Both are loaded using CCI primers.

What about your beastly 300 win mag? You don’t reload for that?

Not yet champ, still chewing through factory ammo, however when that is spent I will be loading half of it with 185gn Lapua match grade and the other half with eldx Hornady projies, unsure what load, need to develop something

[wanneroo]

I bought some 300 Blackout Winchester ammo recently with a 200g expanding bullet, subsonic.

Cases are annealed and look OK.

Went away and shot some, 2nd round jammed, I think due to the sloppy rough open tip projectile.

Then I picked up the brass and all the case necks had gotten flattened a bit somehow. Hmmm... hadn't seen that before out of this gun. In fact had just been shooting a bunch of ADI 300 Blackout(yes we can get ADI here periodically) and all those are intact.

Upon inspection of the Winchester brass it looks a bit thin, so I'm not sure how it's going to work out to reload it.

[flutch]

The old man's model 70 flattens one side of all his brass it ejects, soft, hard, thick or thin it cares not lol

[SCJ429]

The BS about 270win being innaccurate is hogwash, the bullets have a great BC and plenty of punch means flat shooting, the same could be said for any 80+ year old cartridge yet I'm sure people would get their knickers in a twist if I started picking on other old cartridges, truth is until recently it was only a lack of high BC or Target grade rounds that gave that false reputation, I would pit 270win against most things happily, hell people actually think 308win is amazing for accuracy, which is isn't by default, it's all a matter of what you actually know and looking at it objectively heck after all its a 6.8mm projectile, not unlike 6.5 really.

Sorry if you feel that I am picking on the 270 however no one said it was inaccurate but even you must admit that it would not be your first choice for an accuracy competition.. It does make your claim of shooting one hole groups all day every day even more remarkable. I have no issues with your methods but I will continue to fuss over my brass and other details of my loads.

[duncan61]

I would think the 270 Win would tune up very well for competition as does my 7mm Rem Mag which is very similar.

[bigrich]

The old man's model 70 flattens one side of all his brass it ejects, soft, hard, thick or thin it cares not lol

My push feed 222 model 70 does the same thing with both the Norma and rem brass I’ve run through it . I put it down t the way it flicks the case out as it extracts . Minor thing. Most Winchester ammo I’ve tried in my rifles has been crap, Remington and federal haven’t been too bad . It’s a shame Winchester ammo doesn’t live up to the same quality that their older rifles do

[TassieTiger]

I would think the 270 Win would tune up very well for competition as does my 7mm Rem Mag which is very similar.

If my calibres clover leafed, all day, everyday, with multiple different ammunition, with not weighed powder, from budget 783 type rifles - I’d not bother doing any tuning what so ever. As SC said, The 270 is not known as an accurate caliber out of the box so to get an inch group from such a combination would be remarkable and to get consistent cloverleaf results with all bullets touching - nigh on impossible on an ongoing and consistent basis.

[flutch]

I would think the 270 Win would tune up very well for competition as does my 7mm Rem Mag which is very similar.

If my calibres clover leafed, all day, everyday, with multiple different ammunition, with not weighed powder, from budget 783 type rifles - I’d not bother doing any tuning what so ever. As SC said, The 270 is not known as an accurate caliber out of the box so to get an inch group from such a combination would be remarkable and to get consistent cloverleaf results with all bullets touching - nigh on impossible on an ongoing and consistent basis.

Both mine (rem 783) and the old man's (cmc mountaineer/howa) can take out a 1" chain link from 250m, done it plenty pissing off a mate of mine with his little gong, mines glass bedded with much care, has the trigger worked and obviously wasn't a Friday job. Know a heap of other lads with 270win Cal rifles and never known any of those boys to miss either. There is nothing inherently innaccurate about them at all, the outdated idea comes from the old days of soft lead projectiles and poor BC across the board (all calibers) and that the 270 stayed a deer cartridge round most of the world and wasn't employed into the fad driven world of target shooters and the likes, every day you hear someone touting the accuracy of their .308 which from my observations is far from an easy accurate point and shoot rifle, and the majority of projectiles for that also (hunting specifically) are poor at grouping also, it's not that the caliber/cartridge is inherently flawed at all, it's the fact that until recently only low BC rounds were made for it as that was it's market, load it with match grade 6.8 rounds or high BC polymer tip rounds and you get an entirely different animal.

[duncan61]

Once again I am with you flutch.super good barrel and projectile and who cares how it gets pushed out and by what

[TassieTiger]

What I’m referring to and I think SC in regards to accuracy prone calibres is much longer range stuff but if you can really shoot as good as your saying, with multiple variables, value based rifles then kudos to you.
You should visit some F class matches - am sure you’d upset a lot of ppl with $10k set ups lol.

[flutch]

What I’m referring to and I think SC in regards to accuracy prone calibres is much longer range stuff but if you can really shoot as good as your saying, with multiple variables, value based rifles then kudos to you.
You should visit some F class matches - am sure you’d upset a lot of ppl with $10k set ups lol.

I'll stick to upsetting them by hunting when they have nowhere to do it, why waste time and money killing sheets of paper when you can go blasting the innards and brains out of critters in the great outdoors, no club politics and strokers who talk s**t all day, no appeasing egos or idiots with piss poor attitudes, done the club thing in multiple disciplines of marksmanship, every time same thing,

Out hunting, just me, friends and family and the elements, muuuuch better

[bigrich]

What I’m referring to and I think SC in regards to accuracy prone calibres is much longer range stuff but if you can really shoot as good as your saying, with multiple variables, value based rifles then kudos to you.
You should visit some F class matches - am sure you’d upset a lot of ppl with $10k set ups lol.

I'll stick to upsetting them by hunting when they have nowhere to do it, why waste time and money killing sheets of paper when you can go blasting the innards and brains out of critters in the great outdoors, no club politics and strokers who talk s**t all day, no appeasing egos or idiots with piss poor attitudes, done the club thing in multiple disciplines of marksmanship, every time same thing,

Out hunting, just me, friends and family and the elements, muuuuch better

sounds good flutch, sorry to hear your club experiences weren't good . it's pretty casual at the range i shoot. but yeah , would rather be out hunting 1400 meters above sea level on a granite ridge scoping goats

[flutch]

sounds good flutch, sorry to hear your club experiences weren't good . it's pretty casual at the range i shoot. but yeah , would rather be out hunting 1400 meters above sea level on a granite ridge scoping goats

Yeah mate done the committee thing, presided clubs, dealt with brushing egos waaay too often, there's always a cluster of bulls**t artists, wannabes, wallflowers, try hards and people who are off balance and let's not forget fudds in every club, they come and go and the numbers vary but they're there, granted there are less in rifle clubs than in archery and pistol clubs, but still they exist..


My poison is foxes usually, that and cats, recently chased some bigger stuff, but yeah goats were a mainstay of my fun as a teenager, lots of chasing them around the gorges and ravines.

[marksman]

Yeah mate done the committee thing, presided clubs, dealt with brushing egos waaay too often, there's always a cluster of bulls**t artists, wannabes, wallflowers, try hards and people who are off balance and let's not forget fudds in every club, they come and go and the numbers vary but they're there, granted there are less in rifle clubs than in archery and pistol clubs, but still they exist..
.

I really like the way you said that flutch

[duncan61]

The different clubs I have attended To do target I am humble and grateful to be there and have always been treated well as a Newcomer.Then I have my turn on the mound and its game on