Real life results

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Real life results

Post by Cal-ApeR » 14 Jun 2019, 3:56 pm

Hi all,

I've searched far and wide for this info and cannot for the life of me find anything. First hand experience is most appreciated.

My question is to do with load development. Recently a friend of mine has gotten into loading using his chrono solely. He has drawn info from 6.5guys and other ladder test theories.

He is basically blind loading, as in, he is searching for best groups using velocities and SD. He is working from starting loads to max in .2 grain increments. His data shows some good plateaus/nodes for him to further refine.

Is anybody familiar with using a chronograph solely for developing their loads? If so, how has this data translated into actual groups on paper? I've read plenty about people doing it but haven't seen their data backed up with actual target groupings.

If you have done it, care to share your data AND TARGETS? If I can see some evidence, I may go grab myself a new chrono. Thanks!
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Re: Real life results

Post by SCJ429 » 14 Jun 2019, 7:23 pm

You can use a bit of both, a low SD will keep your vertical down but there is no guarantee that a low SD will shoot the smallest group. Use the chrono to indicate where you should concentrate your load development efforts. By the same token if you fluke a fantastic group your chrono should be a good indication that the result may be difficult to repeat.
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Re: Real life results

Post by Stix » 14 Jun 2019, 7:57 pm

Hi Cal-ApeR...

Im not a guru like SCJ, Marksman & others, but i bought a magneto speed for that very exercise.

Got a load with single figure sd & .3-.4" groups without trying & i was on cloud nine--people wanted to see how i hand load...lol...

Then i took the magneto off & everything goes to utter shyte...

So...now i load test based on what prints on paper...
I think there is much knowledge & skills to be gained in brass handling & loading techniques, along with target reading ability that will tell you what a chrono wont...

Ive had so much confusion from the chrono--for example random (what i call a) 'velocity flyers' that land in the group, while another good velocity shot randomly lands way out the group that i know is not me :unknown: , & i found that lowered my confidence...& my experience was if you ask people at the range--so called "experts" they subtly tell you that you cant shoot, & eventually you may fall for their negativity....further lowering your confidence.

I think you know if you have a good technique, & if you do, have confidence in ot & go by whats printed on your targets... (that is until such time as ypu get to the level of knowledge & ability of the above mentioned members & others like them).

Let me be clear, im not knocking the chrono approach at all, & having a chrono is a handy thing, but im just saying i believe there is much more to be gained from having an [i]honest confidence[/i] in your own ability, owning that honesty & learning to interpret what prints on a target.
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Re: Real life results

Post by SCJ429 » 14 Jun 2019, 9:56 pm

I'm no guru, I am learning just like everyone else. You can sort yourself a load without a chronograph but the extra data can point you in the right direction. You don't need a chrono to tell you the SD is over 40, the awful group will tell you that. I find that once you have found the node and you are fine tuning with seating depth the chrono can guide you to which load you might use at 500 for example.
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Re: Real life results

Post by Stix » 14 Jun 2019, 10:21 pm

I wasnt trying to be insulting or condescending scj...
I was just verbslising my observation that i think you have much knowledge up your sleeve to offer... :) ...as do many others i here i havnt mentioned... :D

Compliment A...was it... (as spoken by Yoda)...
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Re: Real life results

Post by SCJ429 » 14 Jun 2019, 11:00 pm

Thanks Stix, I didn't feel insulted but I don't want to be some self proclaimed expert. Anyone can do what I do. I am humbled every time I try shooting with the big boys. I find I need to be methodical and record my results. If you loose your way you can look back on your records to get back on track.
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Re: Real life results

Post by Cal-ApeR » 15 Jun 2019, 8:13 am

Thanks guys, especially Stix for the honesty. You probably just saved me a few hundred $$. I have access to the traditional optical chrono but was thinking for convenience I would save my pennies for a Magentospeed.

So after reading the above posts, I'm thinking.... Do the traditional ladder tests and record my results, use the chrono to help backup my results rather than guide my results (if that makes sense??).

I also agree with Stix in a couple of areas. I've recently been playing with some crappy PPU brass for my 243 that has been giving me all sorts of trouble. I think good brass handling and reloading techniques are something to be learnt for better consistent on the range. Finally, shooting technique is essential. I know I need more range time and I guess this was why I was hoping the chrono would be most helpful.
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Re: Real life results

Post by Ziad » 15 Jun 2019, 8:36 am

Magnetospeed is awesome, very easy to setup and use. You can shoot at different targets without changing the position of the chrony like you have to with the optical ones. So worth it for this alone.

Yes the magnetospeed changes poi, so my recommendation is look at the speeds add well as the group's. Once you are in the zone and your groups are good you can fine tune without the magnetospeed.

All of use have had that perfect group with 1 or two fliers, you wonder if you pulled the shot, or cold barrel, or wind drift... with the magnetospeed looking st the speeds you can say it was your mistake.... or maybe the charge weight was different
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Re: Real life results

Post by sungazer » 15 Jun 2019, 9:34 am

There really should be no velocity flyers whether it is grouping or not. If you are getting velocity outliers this is telling you something about your reloading. It wont tell you what it is however. Time to go back and examine every step and perhaps its something you don't know about as yet.
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Re: Real life results

Post by TassieTiger » 15 Jun 2019, 11:09 am

Yes to the above...so many possibles...like neck tension or projectile runout, weight of projectiles, brass inconsistencies, etc.
Tikka .260 (custom)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 28’
Sauer 30-06
Howa 300 win mag.
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Re: Real life results

Post by in2anity » 15 Jun 2019, 12:37 pm

Ladder test for groups, then chrono for strelok. That’s what I do anyway. Raw accuracy is king.
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