lmlalong wrote:what powder would u suggest to use on supersonic?
It will depend on the bullet weight you're using - AR2206H or AR2208 would be good choices.
lmlalong wrote:what powder would u suggest to use on supersonic?
mickb wrote:We have to be honest about the 300blk subsonic choices though. Some are match bullets, not expanding, not all are available in Australia, and looking at reviews for some of them ( nosler and the 208 grain amax) they are not getting great expansion reports in the field.
lmlalong wrote:my first intention was the Nosler 220GR as their website stated it works from 1000fps to 2500fps. but someone stated that projectile just tumble all the way at subsonic speed and Sierra 2180 are way cheaper(at NZ Nosler 220GR are 1.32NZD per round, and Sierra 2180 are 0.79NZD per round).
bladeracer wrote:I think I was pretty clear on using pure lead rather than hard-cast, so I can't see how you managed to read my suggesting otherwise.
lmlalong wrote:bladeracer wrote:lmlalong wrote:supersonic with cast not gonna work well. was choosing from 151 cast or 220 rn for subsonic. but if i'm gonna run at 1050 ish subsonic why don't i choose 220? same speed but much heavier projectile.
i am from New Zealand, trying to build the rifle for small to medium games? i have no idea if i could do big game with this rifle.
My preference for subsonic is a pure lead bullet as heavy as you can stabilise. An 8"-twist will stabilise just about any .308" bullet you can make.
For supersonic I would use a jacketed bullet designed to deal with the size of your target. A .308 would certainly deal with big game.
if using a heavy pure lead cast, what do u reckon soft cast or hard cast? i assume soft cast will expand really well, but would it leave lead foiling on rifling?
will definitely use sierra 2180 as supersonic now(bought it already ). did some calculation: ideal twist for 220GR would be 1:10 ish. but 1:8 should be totally fine. more research to do now. hope i dont blow something up
in2anity wrote:bladeracer wrote:I think I was pretty clear on using pure lead rather than hard-cast, so I can't see how you managed to read my suggesting otherwise.lmlalong wrote:bladeracer wrote:lmlalong wrote:supersonic with cast not gonna work well. was choosing from 151 cast or 220 rn for subsonic. but if i'm gonna run at 1050 ish subsonic why don't i choose 220? same speed but much heavier projectile.
i am from New Zealand, trying to build the rifle for small to medium games? i have no idea if i could do big game with this rifle.
My preference for subsonic is a pure lead bullet as heavy as you can stabilise. An 8"-twist will stabilise just about any .308" bullet you can make.
For supersonic I would use a jacketed bullet designed to deal with the size of your target. A .308 would certainly deal with big game.
if using a heavy pure lead cast, what do u reckon soft cast or hard cast? i assume soft cast will expand really well, but would it leave lead foiling on rifling?
will definitely use sierra 2180 as supersonic now(bought it already ). did some calculation: ideal twist for 220GR would be 1:10 ish. but 1:8 should be totally fine. more research to do now. hope i dont blow something up
bladeracer wrote:You appear to be quoting the OP? At no point have I said anything like hard-cast bullets being soft or pure lead.
in2anity wrote:bladeracer wrote:You appear to be quoting the OP? At no point have I said anything like hard-cast bullets being soft or pure lead.
blade i was talking to OP when I was clarifying about hard-cast, not you - I know you were saying pure lead all along. I was never referring to what you wrote. he seemed to have his wires crossed with respect to his understanding of "soft cast" vs "hard cast" at that point. settle down .
lmlalong wrote:what powder would u suggest to use on supersonic?
in2anity wrote:bladeracer wrote:You appear to be quoting the OP? At no point have I said anything like hard-cast bullets being soft or pure lead.
blade i was talking to OP when I was clarifying about hard-cast, not you - I know you were saying pure lead all along. I was never referring to what you wrote. he seemed to have his wires crossed with respect to his understanding of "soft cast" vs "hard cast" at that point. settle down .
bladeracer wrote:in2anity wrote:bladeracer wrote:You appear to be quoting the OP? At no point have I said anything like hard-cast bullets being soft or pure lead.
blade i was talking to OP when I was clarifying about hard-cast, not you - I know you were saying pure lead all along. I was never referring to what you wrote. he seemed to have his wires crossed with respect to his understanding of "soft cast" vs "hard cast" at that point. settle down .
I'm settled, but sore - I'm shooting 12ga, so much pain for so little effect at the target
I don't like to refer to soft lead bullets as "pure" lead, because pure is a scientific term that may not be achievable in the real world.
I saw Elvis Ammo do a test of "very soft" bullets in 300BLK, except his idea of very soft is 10BHN.
Sheet lead from Bunnings is the most readily available "pure" lead.
lmlalong wrote:here is what im gonna do after everyone's help:
subsonic: 151 cast(the seller claims:the 151HP soft cast will expand to around .400" at 900fps). Trail Boss(later on will move to a heavier cast )
supersonic: Sierra #2180 220GR jacketed RN. AR2206h/AR2208(later will move to Noslers#30181)
Blr243 wrote:I just did some maths based on your 150 weight lead at 1080 feet per second. Be aware that the energy delivered to your game animal is only about 20 per cent more than if you were useing a 22 magnum. You can google ( bullet energy calculator ) and punch in the figures yourself
bladeracer wrote:lmlalong wrote:here is what im gonna do after everyone's help:
subsonic: 151 cast(the seller claims:the 151HP soft cast will expand to around .400" at 900fps). Trail Boss(later on will move to a heavier cast )
supersonic: Sierra #2180 220GR jacketed RN. AR2206h/AR2208(later will move to Noslers#30181)
I'm surprised you can buy commercially-cast soft bullets. Outside of muzzleloaders virtually all cast bullets I've seen are hard-cast. Do they say what Brinell Hardness their bullets are?
bladeracer wrote:
WMR 30gn Vmax making 2200fps has 322ft-lb at the muzzle, 134ft-lb at 100yd and 67ft-lb at 200yd.
A 150gn cast bullet at 1080fps makes 390, 318 and 272ft-lbs at the same distances.
Blr243 wrote:I just spent months of time and money doing very extensive research on how to get humane results with sub sonic 300 blk At $ 1.20 per projectile 220 grain noslers are supposed to expand at 1050 FPS.... all the copper stuff that is also soposed to work is impossible to get a hold of Australia or otherwise. One American company quoted me 7500 dollars to send me 200 copper expanding projectiles I wanted to go down this route because I was trying not to deafen my sniffer dog...I shoot close to him and he just about has a mental breakdown next to my 243. .. he was not phased at all on the last hunt when I used 300 blk subs ...but this ammo is a wounding combination on pigs and should be outlawed one this size game ...I have no doubt that with fast 125 grainers the 300 blk can perform nicely on pigs . I am selling this rifle. I have bought a 450 bushmaster and intend useing hollow point 300 grain xtp s that are designed to expand at pistol velocity......the new rifle / ammo choice also gives me 35 per cent more energy to do the job than what the 300 blk subs were giving me .......imagine a marble sized lead ball hitting a brick wall at 3000 FPS. Of course it’s going to expand or fragment. Now image a hard cast lead marble that is thrown by hand at the same wall.... you might get a tiny flat spot on one side of it .....and a much softer lead marble also thrown by hand will probably show a flat spot on one side ..... the point I’m trying to make is that at subsonic velocities bullet performance is extremely dependent on the softness of the lead and the design of the projectile ... so just grabbing a 220 grain Sierra round nose is bugger all improvement over a Fmj .....and it’s just not fair to the game we pursue
wanneroo wrote:Blr243 wrote:I just spent months of time and money doing very extensive research on how to get humane results with sub sonic 300 blk At $ 1.20 per projectile 220 grain noslers are supposed to expand at 1050 FPS.... all the copper stuff that is also soposed to work is impossible to get a hold of Australia or otherwise. One American company quoted me 7500 dollars to send me 200 copper expanding projectiles I wanted to go down this route because I was trying not to deafen my sniffer dog...I shoot close to him and he just about has a mental breakdown next to my 243. .. he was not phased at all on the last hunt when I used 300 blk subs ...but this ammo is a wounding combination on pigs and should be outlawed one this size game ...I have no doubt that with fast 125 grainers the 300 blk can perform nicely on pigs . I am selling this rifle. I have bought a 450 bushmaster and intend useing hollow point 300 grain xtp s that are designed to expand at pistol velocity......the new rifle / ammo choice also gives me 35 per cent more energy to do the job than what the 300 blk subs were giving me .......imagine a marble sized lead ball hitting a brick wall at 3000 FPS. Of course it’s going to expand or fragment. Now image a hard cast lead marble that is thrown by hand at the same wall.... you might get a tiny flat spot on one side of it .....and a much softer lead marble also thrown by hand will probably show a flat spot on one side ..... the point I’m trying to make is that at subsonic velocities bullet performance is extremely dependent on the softness of the lead and the design of the projectile ... so just grabbing a 220 grain Sierra round nose is bugger all improvement over a Fmj .....and it’s just not fair to the game we pursue
We have quite the pig infestation down south in the USA and I've not heard of people using subsonic 300 BLK on pigs. Not enough energy for that to take down a pig/hog. Subsonic 308 would render about the same results. If they are using 300 BLK it's supersonic ammo often with suppressors.
450 Bushmaster is probably a better bet. Personally I like 50 Beowulf.