Help needed for 308 subsonic load

[bladeracer]

You appear to be quoting the OP? At no point have I said anything like hard-cast bullets being soft or pure lead.

blade i was talking to OP when I was clarifying about hard-cast, not you - I know you were saying pure lead all along. I was never referring to what you wrote. he seemed to have his wires crossed with respect to his understanding of "soft cast" vs "hard cast" at that point. settle down .

I'm settled, but sore - I'm shooting 12ga, so much pain for so little effect at the target
I don't like to refer to soft lead bullets as "pure" lead, because pure is a scientific term that may not be achievable in the real world.
I saw Elvis Ammo do a test of "very soft" bullets in 300BLK, except his idea of very soft is 10BHN.

Sheet lead from Bunnings is the most readily available "pure" lead.

[in2anity]

what powder would u suggest to use on supersonic?

I like using AR2207/H4198/Reloader 7/IMR4198 for loads in the realms of 1600-1900fps. Doesn't seem quite as position sensitive as AR2206H.

[lmlalong]

You appear to be quoting the OP? At no point have I said anything like hard-cast bullets being soft or pure lead.

blade i was talking to OP when I was clarifying about hard-cast, not you - I know you were saying pure lead all along. I was never referring to what you wrote. he seemed to have his wires crossed with respect to his understanding of "soft cast" vs "hard cast" at that point. settle down .

sorry guys my bad.i thought pure lead= soft lead/hard cast.

[lmlalong]

You appear to be quoting the OP? At no point have I said anything like hard-cast bullets being soft or pure lead.

blade i was talking to OP when I was clarifying about hard-cast, not you - I know you were saying pure lead all along. I was never referring to what you wrote. he seemed to have his wires crossed with respect to his understanding of "soft cast" vs "hard cast" at that point. settle down .

I'm settled, but sore - I'm shooting 12ga, so much pain for so little effect at the target
I don't like to refer to soft lead bullets as "pure" lead, because pure is a scientific term that may not be achievable in the real world.
I saw Elvis Ammo do a test of "very soft" bullets in 300BLK, except his idea of very soft is 10BHN.

Sheet lead from Bunnings is the most readily available "pure" lead.

sorry guys my bad.i thought pure lead= soft lead/hard cast.

thank you so so much. there are alot informations i learnt from your replies.

[lmlalong]

here is what im gonna do after everyone's help:

subsonic: 151 cast(the seller claims:the 151HP soft cast will expand to around .400" at 900fps). Trail Boss(later on will move to a heavier cast )

supersonic: Sierra #2180 220GR jacketed RN. AR2206h/AR2208(later will move to Noslers#30181)

[Blr243]

I just did some maths based on your 150 weight lead at 1080 feet per second. Be aware that the energy delivered to your game animal is only about 20 per cent more than if you were useing a 22 magnum. You can google ( bullet energy calculator ) and punch in the figures yourself

[bladeracer]

here is what im gonna do after everyone's help:

subsonic: 151 cast(the seller claims:the 151HP soft cast will expand to around .400" at 900fps). Trail Boss(later on will move to a heavier cast )

supersonic: Sierra #2180 220GR jacketed RN. AR2206h/AR2208(later will move to Noslers#30181)

I'm surprised you can buy commercially-cast soft bullets. Outside of muzzleloaders virtually all cast bullets I've seen are hard-cast. Do they say what Brinell Hardness their bullets are?

[bladeracer]

I just did some maths based on your 150 weight lead at 1080 feet per second. Be aware that the energy delivered to your game animal is only about 20 per cent more than if you were useing a 22 magnum. You can google ( bullet energy calculator ) and punch in the figures yourself

WMR 30gn Vmax making 2200fps has 322ft-lb at the muzzle, 134ft-lb at 100yd and 67ft-lb at 200yd.
A 150gn cast bullet at 1080fps makes 390, 318 and 272ft-lbs at the same distances.

[lmlalong]

here is what im gonna do after everyone's help:

subsonic: 151 cast(the seller claims:the 151HP soft cast will expand to around .400" at 900fps). Trail Boss(later on will move to a heavier cast )

supersonic: Sierra #2180 220GR jacketed RN. AR2206h/AR2208(later will move to Noslers#30181)

I'm surprised you can buy commercially-cast soft bullets. Outside of muzzleloaders virtually all cast bullets I've seen are hard-cast. Do they say what Brinell Hardness their bullets are?

unfortunately he did not supply any information on the hardness reading. but this projectile have a good feedbacks from NZ reloaders community.

[Oldbloke]

WMR 30gn Vmax making 2200fps has 322ft-lb at the muzzle, 134ft-lb at 100yd and 67ft-lb at 200yd.
A 150gn cast bullet at 1080fps makes 390, 318 and 272ft-lbs at the same distances.

Well, well. Thats interesting. A 223 has about 950fbs at 100 yards. Soooo, i wonder what they are realistically capable of?

[wanneroo]

I just spent months of time and money doing very extensive research on how to get humane results with sub sonic 300 blk At $ 1.20 per projectile 220 grain noslers are supposed to expand at 1050 FPS.... all the copper stuff that is also soposed to work is impossible to get a hold of Australia or otherwise. One American company quoted me 7500 dollars to send me 200 copper expanding projectiles I wanted to go down this route because I was trying not to deafen my sniffer dog...I shoot close to him and he just about has a mental breakdown next to my 243. .. he was not phased at all on the last hunt when I used 300 blk subs ...but this ammo is a wounding combination on pigs and should be outlawed one this size game ...I have no doubt that with fast 125 grainers the 300 blk can perform nicely on pigs . I am selling this rifle. I have bought a 450 bushmaster and intend useing hollow point 300 grain xtp s that are designed to expand at pistol velocity......the new rifle / ammo choice also gives me 35 per cent more energy to do the job than what the 300 blk subs were giving me .......imagine a marble sized lead ball hitting a brick wall at 3000 FPS. Of course it’s going to expand or fragment. Now image a hard cast lead marble that is thrown by hand at the same wall.... you might get a tiny flat spot on one side of it .....and a much softer lead marble also thrown by hand will probably show a flat spot on one side ..... the point I’m trying to make is that at subsonic velocities bullet performance is extremely dependent on the softness of the lead and the design of the projectile ... so just grabbing a 220 grain Sierra round nose is bugger all improvement over a Fmj .....and it’s just not fair to the game we pursue

We have quite the pig infestation down south in the USA and I've not heard of people using subsonic 300 BLK on pigs. Not enough energy for that to take down a pig/hog. Subsonic 308 would render about the same results. If they are using 300 BLK it's supersonic ammo often with suppressors.

450 Bushmaster is probably a better bet. Personally I like 50 Beowulf.

[mickb]

I just spent months of time and money doing very extensive research on how to get humane results with sub sonic 300 blk At $ 1.20 per projectile 220 grain noslers are supposed to expand at 1050 FPS.... all the copper stuff that is also soposed to work is impossible to get a hold of Australia or otherwise. One American company quoted me 7500 dollars to send me 200 copper expanding projectiles I wanted to go down this route because I was trying not to deafen my sniffer dog...I shoot close to him and he just about has a mental breakdown next to my 243. .. he was not phased at all on the last hunt when I used 300 blk subs ...but this ammo is a wounding combination on pigs and should be outlawed one this size game ...I have no doubt that with fast 125 grainers the 300 blk can perform nicely on pigs . I am selling this rifle. I have bought a 450 bushmaster and intend useing hollow point 300 grain xtp s that are designed to expand at pistol velocity......the new rifle / ammo choice also gives me 35 per cent more energy to do the job than what the 300 blk subs were giving me .......imagine a marble sized lead ball hitting a brick wall at 3000 FPS. Of course it’s going to expand or fragment. Now image a hard cast lead marble that is thrown by hand at the same wall.... you might get a tiny flat spot on one side of it .....and a much softer lead marble also thrown by hand will probably show a flat spot on one side ..... the point I’m trying to make is that at subsonic velocities bullet performance is extremely dependent on the softness of the lead and the design of the projectile ... so just grabbing a 220 grain Sierra round nose is bugger all improvement over a Fmj .....and it’s just not fair to the game we pursue

We have quite the pig infestation down south in the USA and I've not heard of people using subsonic 300 BLK on pigs. Not enough energy for that to take down a pig/hog. Subsonic 308 would render about the same results. If they are using 300 BLK it's supersonic ammo often with suppressors.

450 Bushmaster is probably a better bet. Personally I like 50 Beowulf.

similar conclusion I came to after looking into subsonics .Unreliable expansion in the long bullet types for the 308 cal or difficult to get the more specialised bullets. On the other hand pistol style bullets get much better reports which would make sense as its an industry designed around low velocities that sorted out subsonic expansion decades ago. Worst case if something doesn't expand at least with a 44 or 45 etc you get some sort of hole in the animal....

Will be interesting to see what can be done with 308 cast loads.

[Blr243]

I think nosler would already be useing the softest lead possible in their subsonic 220 grainer And it didn’t work for me. After moving away from the blackout and onto the 450 bushmaster I now have a 300 grain projectile costing me 75 cents and with a big hollow point that will actually work like it’s supposed to As opposed to a 220 grain projectile that costs $1:20 each and fails to properly expand and just punches through