Converting Brass

[Blr243]

What heat source did u use for annealing. And what is an interim die ? Glad to hear the process was a success

[JimTom]

What heat source did u use for annealing. And what is an interim die ? Glad to hear the process was a success

Mate I just used a gas torch and LPG gas cylinder and heated them in a tray of water tipping them over when completed. First time I had ever annealed, seemed to work well. That procedure I got off this forum. Loads of great ideas and experience on here. Thanks fellas.

As for the expander die, I think the correct terminology is a universal case expander die. Basically a die with a long cone in it which can be adjusted up or down so as to vary the neck size. Wind it down and neck expansion is increased. Wind it up and the opposite happens. Was a good interim step in getting the neck from .224 to .308. With that and the annealing I think I lost 4-5 cases to splitting out of around 400.

[in2anity]

For those that are interested I did manage to successfully convert the .222 brass into 300AAC. I learned a few things along the way, and now have a pretty good supply of brass for the blackout.
After cutting the brass with an angle grinder, I then annealed the brass as I found I had about 1 in 5 split when expanding if I didn’t anneal.
Next they went through an interim expander die, then through the 300AAC full length die.
Of course then the cases were trimmed to size, champfer and deburred.
Have loaded and fired a few now and have had no issues whatsoever.
In saying that I can now see why most people just convert .223 brass as it would be a far easier process. Still it was a good learning experience and I know have a healthy supply of expendable brass.

JT you inspired me to also try forming my own from 223. I bought a 1.5kg bag of once-fired, mixed hs 223 brass from a popular online store for $40 delivered - about 150 cases, which I thought I was very reasonable. It's a mixture of ADI, OSA, Hornady, Federal, Remington, Winchester, Lapua and a few other odds and ends.

I also bought a tiny dropsaw for $70 from online which functions just fine.

I anneal using a butane torch and a rotating tray of water.

An observation I've made is the brass varied a bit when it came to thickness, which was problematic with regard to headspacing. Using my Lee die, i just wasn't getting the headspace clearance I needed (i.e. the lugs were very tight to lock up).

So I bought an RCBS die which did help, but ultimately did not solve the problem. I did some more research (thanks to sungazer's tip into "shoulder bumping") and found out some ground a shell holder thinner to allow the die to drop just that tad lower.

I ground off 15thou from the shell holder, which allows for the bumping of the shoulder back just a fraction more, thus allowing all brands of brass (except Sako and Tikka) to lock up without any resistance. Neck turning is a consideration, but once fireformed, I'm a big fan of the Lee collet die which is supposed to stop runout - especially if you size three times per shell with a 120° index.

Working with the small-shouldered 300aac cartridge is really really easy - it's almost like working pistol brass. You need only the tiniest amount of lube on the shoulder to FL resize.

I've also been seating the Speer 125gr TNT pill out to 2.1" OAL because I saw a knowledgeable dude do it youtube. This is allowing me to comfortably fit in 18.4gr of 2205, and get that a bit closer to the lands. Generally, I feel a longer OAL feeds better in the RARR.

[Blr243]

Thanks for that I googled universal expander die From the YouTube vid I watched I would tend to call it a uni flare ing die. But does not matter. I get the idea of how you did it I had a stack of 222 brass lying around after a roo plague at Cunnamulla. I will never use it. Hopefully I did not toss them out

[JimTom]

Nice one mate. I did a search about different types of .223 brass not being suitable for converting to 300AAC due to excess wall thickness, which may have been a contributing factor to your issue when you converted.
I will see if I can dig it up and post it up here for you mate. As for the drop saw, that sounds like a much better way of cutting the brass, it is what I have witnessed when watching the YouTube videos of blokes converting the brass. I was unable to find one locally so I used angle grinder but of course this is a bit rough and leads to the cases requiring a fair bit of trimming. Being able to cut the cases a bit more precisely would alleviate this.

[JimTom]

Thanks for that I googled universal expander die From the YouTube vid I watched I would tend to call it a uni flare ing die. But does not matter. I get the idea of how you did it I had a stack of 222 brass lying around after a roo plague at Cunnamulla. I will never use it. Hopefully I did not toss them out

Yep that’s the one mate. Works a treat.

[JimTom]

Check this out mate.

http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=88599

[Blr243]

Good info. I’m guessing that after this success you would do it all again?

[Blr243]

I’ve actually lost the bolt from my blackout ( I would like to think that I have temporarily misplaced it in the process of separating it from my rifle during transport to a hunting location) So I will probably find it one day while digging around for something else. So any loading / development/ testing of my blackout is on a temporary hold

[JimTom]

Good info. I’m guessing that after this success you would do it all again?

Mate it was worth doing it out of interest sake for sure. To be honest you can buy the brass pretty cheap as previously stated, however reloading is more of a hobby than a cost cutting exercise so yeah mate I’d happily do it all over again, plus I couldn’t bare to waste the .222 brass.

[sungazer]

JT you inspired me to also try forming my own from 223. I bought a 1.5kg bag of once-fired, mixed hs 223 brass from a popular online store for $40 delivered - about 150 cases, which I thought I was very reasonable. It's a mixture of ADI, OSA, Hornady, Federal, Remington, Winchester, Lapua and a few other odds and ends. .

I did the same when I wanted to load up some plinking rounds using some less than accurate projectiles. In the end I dont think it was a cost saving exercise certainly not a value saving exercise. When you can get the ADI virgin brass on special at $38 /100

It was certainly a learning exercise, and if I were to buy once fired brass again it would have to come at a much cheaper price % than new and the origin of the brass I would take more into account.

The brass fired by the semi autos the chambers are much larger than bolt guns and the cases get beat up on extraction far more than a bolt gun.

[JimTom]

Yeah I am thinking it would want to be fairly cheap to make it a worthwhile activity if you’re after saving a few bucks. I figure it’s more an exercise of recycling old brass from other cartridges.

[in2anity]

Neck tensions feel different among the various brands - i’m curious to see if that effects groups at all.

[bigrich]

ok fellas, i'm in need of some advice . this post has been focused on converting brass 222/223 to 300 blk out , but the principles will be the same i guess . i've been converting 308 ppu brass to 358 win. i've used a 8x57 die to step up the brass in two stages. i'm using a hornady full resize 358 die for the final process, it has a long tappering expander and works very well with no splitting or malformed cases . the cases don't need trimming and are just a couple of thou under the listed minimum trim length. my question is should i anneal these reworked cases before loading and firing ? i'm thinking the neck tension should be good as i'm stretching the neck larger. anyone got any veiws or advice ?

thanks in advance, cheers

[marksman]

because you have gone larger you will find the case necks are thinner and probably pretty consistent in thickness
l would anneal them at least just the once before the first firing
the shortness will stretch out in time

[bigrich]

because you have gone larger you will find the case necks are thinner and probably pretty consistent in thickness
l would anneal them at least just the once before the first firing
the shortness will stretch out in time

thanks MM, i might buy a gas torch from bunnings and use the method suggested by JT . i've heard of bunching cases together with a rubber band or tape and dipping the necks into molten lead ,as the tempreature is spot on and the lead doesn't stick . might be a idea if i get into cast for this 358 .

[JimTom]

I think it would be worth annealing them for sure mate. Like I have already eluded to, I annealed before expanding the necks, I seemed to have more success by having less split when expanding the neck.

[JimTom]

Further to my last post, I have fired and reloaded that converted brass a few times now with no problems at all.