Help with .308 cast loads

Reloading equipment, methods, load data, powder and projectile information.

Re: Help with .308 cast loads

Post by bladeracer » 16 Jul 2019, 5:26 pm

in2anity wrote:Well done goldiexxxx that's some impressive shooting, not to mention an informative conclusion! Thanks for sharing.

With a nice bit of glass, you'd surely bring her into sub 2moa territory (@50m). And in my experience, a consistent sub-2moa lead-slinger is a rare and beautiful thing!


Those are 200m groups so he's well under 2MoA at 50m already.
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Re: Help with .308 cast loads

Post by in2anity » 16 Jul 2019, 6:02 pm

bladeracer wrote:
in2anity wrote:Well done goldiexxxx that's some impressive shooting, not to mention an informative conclusion! Thanks for sharing.

With a nice bit of glass, you'd surely bring her into sub 2moa territory (@50m). And in my experience, a consistent sub-2moa lead-slinger is a rare and beautiful thing!


Those are 200m groups so he's well under 2MoA at 50m already.


Incorrect. He has his SiGHTS set to the 200m mark to account for the reduced load. Those are 50m groups - you can even see it if you look closely at the corners of his photos.

I’m gonna say those sorts of groups at 200m with battle sights shooting cast is an impossibility.
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Re: Help with .308 cast loads

Post by bladeracer » 16 Jul 2019, 7:31 pm

in2anity wrote:Those are 200m groups so he's well under 2MoA at 50m already.


Incorrect. He has his SiGHTS set to the 200m mark to account for the reduced load. Those are 50m groups - you can even see it if you look closely at the corners of his photos.

I’m gonna say those sorts of groups at 200m with battle sights shooting cast is an impossibility.[/quote]

Thanks for pointing that out to me, makes more sense now, I don't know why I still bothering trying to use the internet on the bloody phone!

I'd have a hard time shooting those groups at 200m over open sights even with jacketed bullets :-)
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Re: Help with .308 cast loads

Post by in2anity » 16 Jul 2019, 8:49 pm

bladeracer wrote:
Thanks for pointing that out to me, makes more sense now, I don't know why I still bothering trying to use the internet on the bloody phone!

I'd have a hard time shooting those groups at 200m over open sights even with jacketed bullets :-)


All good mate I had to double take on the post myself!

Agreed with your comment about jacketed - the front blade is really the limiting factor here - it’d basically fully cover such a target at 200m. Granted stunning accuracy can be achieved with a peep+front tunnel+round black target+heavy rifle, but the old kar98 with factory dovetails is far from that!

Regardless of mechanical accuracy, If you can hold a group inside 3” at 100m using battle sights (i.e. factory issued front blade) I reckon you’re doing bloody well. Inside 2” groups at 100m - that’s folklore territory.
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Re: Help with .308 cast loads

Post by in2anity » 16 Jul 2019, 10:35 pm

I’m just trying to remember the times I’ve seen stunning groups from a front-bladed rifle - there’s a bloke Jim who runs the lever comp afternoons the last Sunday of the month at Silverdale/Sydney. I believe he shoots a custom built .25/35 frankenstein’s monster of a lever gun, but I’ve seen him group around 2” at 100m on a couple of occasions (off the elbows stablilzed up against a post). His open-sights prowess is renowned within local silhouette circles.
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Re: Help with .308 cast loads

Post by goldiexxxx » 21 Jul 2019, 8:46 pm

I loaded another four loads for this weekend's testing with the aim of further testing both types of projectiles in both my m1895 Spanish Cavalry Carbine and my Israeli K98. All loads were fired at 50m with sights set higher.
I now have a .311 lee sizing die to resize the .312 Hawkesbury River projectiles down a bit and also install the gas checks. All of my loads using this projectile have been resized to .311 and gas checks installed. I also wanted to try pushing the velocity up on the Hawkesbury River .308 SIL projectile just to see where it would go before becoming unstable. Load 1 & 2 were fired in the K98 and Load 3 & 4 were for the m95 Spaniard.
Load 1 (Israeli K98)
HR 180gr .312 projectile sized to .311
Hornady gas check
CBC fireformed brass
AR2206H powder / 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 32gr x 5 each
C.O.L 2.57"
Results:
27gr - 1.1" (4 shots in 0.4")
28gr - 2.52"
29gr - 1.25"
30gr - 1.85"
32gr - 1.82"
IMG_0118.JPG
IMG_0118.JPG (98.8 KiB) Viewed 5749 times

Load 2 (Israeli K98) This is an extension of last weeks load with the aim to find a higher velocity load
HR 170gr .308 SIL projectile
Hornady gas check
Lapua neck sized brass (light crimp)
AR2206H powder 30, 32, 34, 36gr x 5 each
C.O.L - 2.71"
Results:
30gr - 1.73"
32gr - 1.9"
34gr - 1.75"
36" - 1.8" (3 shots in the same hole)
IMG_0119.JPG
IMG_0119.JPG (92.54 KiB) Viewed 5749 times

Load 3 (m95 Spanish carbine)
HR 170gr .308 SIL projectile
Hornady gas check
Federal neck sized brass (Light crimp)
AR2206H powder 26, 27, 28, 29, 30 , 32, 34gr x 5 each
C.O.L - 2.771"
Results:
26gr -3.04"
27gr - 2.47"
28gr - 2.76"
29gr - 2.35"
30gr - 1.6"
32gr - 2.73"
34gr - 3.16"
IMG_0120.JPG
IMG_0120.JPG (98.89 KiB) Viewed 5749 times

Load 4 (m95 Spanish carbine)
HR 180gr projectile sized to .311
Hornady gas check
Lapua fire formed brass (light crimp)
AR2206H 27, 28, 29gr x 5 each
C.O.L - 2.726"
Results:
27gr - 1.65"
28gr - 1.52" (six shots on target as I mistakenly fired one from the 29gr load)
29gr - 1.89"
IMG_0121.JPG
IMG_0121.JPG (98.65 KiB) Viewed 5749 times

Summary:
The K98 is definitely getting better results than the m95, but that is consistent with the better accuracy with jacketed rounds also.
The K98 will shoot both Hawkesbury River projectiles, whereas the m95 favours the oversized projectile.
All of my loads are printing groups now with the gas check installed, whereas without the gas check, I was lucky to get rounds on target.
The lower velocity / lighter charge seems to be the accuracy load for both rifles with either projectile, but a faster load may still prove to be more useful for what I need with an accepted accuracy loss.
I need to reload more of the .308 36gr loads for the K98, taking extra care with my shooting technique. I think this is going to be the higher velocity load for this rifle (more range time).
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Re: Help with .308 cast loads

Post by goldiexxxx » 22 Aug 2019, 12:18 pm

Hi Folks, so here is an update on where I have taken my learned knowledge with cast bullet loading for .308.
I have been experimenting just a little to expand the uses of my cast loads to include possibly hunting, rather than just feeding my two 7.62mm milsurp rifles.
The following are two loads that I have been using in my Ruger Scout .308; my hunting rifle of choice. I have had two separate hunting excursions using the 36gr AR2206H load exclusively on feral pigs with excellent success. The cast bullet, while obviously travelling slower than my standard hunting load, creates a different, but equally devastating, wound channel. My usual hunting load is a Speer 130gr Varmint HP behind 48gr AR2208. These are a very affective hunting round as they tend to expend all of their energy with an explosive result, sometimes with no exit. On the other hand, the 170gr cast bullet mushrooms quickly and penetrates right through the largest of feral pigs creating a core hole and large exit wound. These have proven to be accurate on both stationary and running pigs out to 100m.
Load 1 (Ruger Gunsite Scout .308 w Leupold VX1 2-7x33)
HR 170gr .308 SIL projectile
Hornady gas check
Neck sized brass with light crimp
36gr AR2206H powder
C.O.L - 2.77"

Load 2 (Ruger Gunsite Scout .308 w Leupold VX1 2-7x33)
HR 170gr .308 SIL projectile
Hornady gas check
Neck sized brass with light crimp
40.2gr AR2208 powder
C.O.L - 2.77"
IMG_0184.JPG
IMG_0184.JPG (1.54 MiB) Viewed 5710 times


Summary: The 40.2gr AR2208 load was created based upon my recipes for 150gr and 165gr jacketed loads only, no ladder test was done, I simply dropped 0.2gr of powder from my 165gr bullet recipe. Regardless, it has proven that with the gas check applied, cast bullets can easily be pushed at velocities equal to that of jacketed bullets, or at least at the lower accuracy node anyway.
With the 36gr AR2206H load, I have not had to make any adjustments to my scope and therefore can still use a range of handloads both cast and jacketed.
I would like to thank all the members that helped me with advice within this thread.

Cheers, Goldie
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Re: Help with .308 cast loads

Post by in2anity » 22 Aug 2019, 2:37 pm

Your gas check is what really opens doors - without it you are pretty hamstrung when it comes to speeds. Thanks for sharing
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Re: Help with .308 cast loads

Post by Oldbloke » 22 Aug 2019, 3:59 pm

"Load 1 (Ruger Gunsite Scout .308 w Leupold VX1 2-7x33)
HR 170gr .308 SIL projectile
Hornady gas check
Neck sized brass with light crimp
36gr AR2206H powder"


Just as a guide (ADI)these would be doing about 2400fps

So is the barrrl leading significant?
Any idea how hard the cast bullets are?
What alloys are you using?
Do you have pic of a used bullet from a pig?
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Re: Help with .308 cast loads

Post by goldiexxxx » 23 Aug 2019, 8:55 am

Hi Oldbloke,
There is no leading at all in the barrel, just as clean as firing jacketed ammo. They are powder coated also.
I don't know how hard the cast bullets are, but if you ring Hawkesbury River Bullet Company, they would likely be able to provide that data; they are not real soft though, I hit them with a hammer on an anvil and they deform with a single hit, but don't exactly squash. They don't chip pieces either when struck with multiple blows, so this is evident why they are penetrating well.
Im not casting my own bullets, I am purchasing the bullets from the manufacturer.
Sorry, no pics of bullets from a pig as they have all penetrated through, leaving a large hole that looks like a broomstick has been pushed through the pig. (sorry for the gruesome image)
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