Stix wrote:Lol...thanks scj...
Ive had neck tirning gear for 2 or 3 years now but managed to hold off...& i continue on with that struggle...!!
So what to do wiith these tighter neck ones...?
s:
Stix wrote:Well jim, Dont laugh...but using it for hunting...
The reason for the questions is i did a test recently with some diff brass.
The brass varied quite a bit in weight (i forget exactly how much just now)...
In general, from memory the brass weighed up to 10 grains difference from current batch, & varied from there maybe another 10 grains spread
...
I did a volume test (very basic with water, as marksman has posted he does it), & to my surprise, the volume was very close to current batch which is completely diff brand & weight...
So the load was very similar--infact could load exaxtly the same for hunting.
So once i had the load using the even weighted brass from middle of batch, i tried that exact load in the 3 lightest & heaviest cases from maybe 80 cases...
The results were (from memory) an inch difference in elevation at 200m.
So for me, thats fine on roos to 200 & a no brainer for foxes out to 300, but is head scratching random hits, misses & woundings on rabbit heads from 200 when in the paddock.
I only shot the two, 3 shot groups so its not like its unarguable scientific hardball testing, but the results were clear with diff in elevation...
So im keen to know how the die-hards batch once fired brass from a big original number of cases.
I want accuracy regardless of hunting or group shooting, but im not knowledgeable enough to know if these finer steps genuniely make the diff for factory chambered rifles...
GQshayne wrote:When I did this exercise a while back, I used water to check the case capacities, and found that case weight and volume were relative with the brass I had. I had accumulated a number of brands over the years - PMC, Winchester, Super, WWSuper, Sako, and a few ring ins. In my case I have two .243 rifles, one being a BLR pig hunting rifle, and the other a Tikka LSA55 for longer range stuff on wild dogs etc. So I found which cases were very similar in capacity and batched them together for the Tikka, and used the rest for the BLR.
I found I had enough matched ones not to have to worry about using them all. Could you not do the same?
Stix wrote:GQshayne wrote:When I did this exercise a while back, I used water to check the case capacities, and found that case weight and volume were relative with the brass I had. I had accumulated a number of brands over the years - PMC, Winchester, Super, WWSuper, Sako, and a few ring ins. In my case I have two .243 rifles, one being a BLR pig hunting rifle, and the other a Tikka LSA55 for longer range stuff on wild dogs etc. So I found which cases were very similar in capacity and batched them together for the Tikka, and used the rest for the BLR.
I found I had enough matched ones not to have to worry about using them all. Could you not do the same?
Thanks GQshayne...so to be sure, are you suggesting batch them by weight first, then by volume with water....?
How many cases did you end up sorting by volume with water...?...& how many you end ul with in your batch...?
Stix wrote:I have a heap of brass (once fired) to sort & batch... (as in a bucket full with 3 diff sized cases).
In the past ive just lubed & sized, trimmed, chamfered/deburred, de-burred flash holes, then tumbled & weight sorted.
When ive done this in the past ive either neck sized them if the fit in my rifle, or bumped them back till they chamber in my rifle,...then prepped.
This time however, not all brass will go through my rifle, so my question is...
Once primers are knocked out, is just weight sorting them sufficient enough to get good accurate batches together...?
And is doing primer pockets & de-burr flash holes going to make a big difference...?
(Each different type case is of the same brand)
bladeracer wrote:Stix wrote:I have a heap of brass (once fired) to sort & batch... (as in a bucket full with 3 diff sized cases).
In the past ive just lubed & sized, trimmed, chamfered/deburred, de-burred flash holes, then tumbled & weight sorted.
When ive done this in the past ive either neck sized them if the fit in my rifle, or bumped them back till they chamber in my rifle,...then prepped.
This time however, not all brass will go through my rifle, so my question is...
Once primers are knocked out, is just weight sorting them sufficient enough to get good accurate batches together...?
And is doing primer pockets & de-burr flash holes going to make a big difference...?
(Each different type case is of the same brand)
I prefer to start with new virgin brass, I certainly wouldn't be trying to build precision loads on once-fired brass.
If I'm using once-fired, I sort them by headstamps, then I run them all through my chamber, and bump any shoulders that need bumping to allow them to chamber. Unless the brass was all fired in your chamber, I think you're wasting your time trying to batch them. They'll all be different sizes according to the chambers they were fire-formed to. I would leave weight/volume batching until you have fire-formed the brass in your chamber so they're all identical, neck-size them, trim them to length - and then do your weight/volume batching.
My first prep before their first load includes cutting the primer pockets to square them up and make them the same depth, and deburring the flash hole (inside and outside) and primer pocket. Using the drill press makes the job less onerous.
I really can't say if the flash holes and pockets make a difference as I do it to all my brass. I figure I only have to do it once in the lifetime of the brass so why shouldn't I just do it. The most I did in one session was 400 .38 Special once-fired I bought on FB, I was getting pretty fed up by the end of those.
nightforcenxs wrote:wouldnt hurt to do it. i measured the ogive of 1000 projectiles so when i seat them there all exact ive batched them into seperate boxes i think its helped with accuracy so far plus its a part of the shooting adventure to get more accurate so i say go for it.
TassieTiger wrote:nightforcenxs wrote:wouldnt hurt to do it. i measured the ogive of 1000 projectiles so when i seat them there all exact ive batched them into seperate boxes i think its helped with accuracy so far plus its a part of the shooting adventure to get more accurate so i say go for it.
You measured 1000 ogives? Geeeezzzzus.
Do you also measure neck wall thickness ?
nightforcenxs wrote:TassieTiger wrote:nightforcenxs wrote:wouldnt hurt to do it. i measured the ogive of 1000 projectiles so when i seat them there all exact ive batched them into seperate boxes i think its helped with accuracy so far plus its a part of the shooting adventure to get more accurate so i say go for it.
You measured 1000 ogives? Geeeezzzzus.
Do you also measure neck wall thickness ?
yep measured 1000 zmax 168gr 30 cal projectiles i currently dont measure neck wall thickness as i still only shoot a standard tikka t3x but if i was shooting a caliber that required neck turning i would check every case. i check every case after i seat the projectile though i currently bought a le wilson bushing full length die so i can have 3 thou neck tension and bumping the shoulder back 2 thou aswell i do this for my 223 and find the seating to be more consistent
marksman wrote:I like to check the volume weight and batch at that, I have stopped just weighing cases
IMHO it is a waste of time checking volume until the cases have been fireformed in your chamber
after fireforming then do your prep and then weigh the volume and sort to your prefered fudge factor
I like my cases say the 30-06 size to be within less than 1/2 a grain different and no more, 22 hornet sized are less than .2 of a grain
and I do try to have the differences better than that
this guy is worth a watch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXxxf0iXuio
he does a test on case volume
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Md50fFCeQJE