micrometer?

[gordicans]

this might be a dumb question but what's the advantage of purchasing say a Forster seating die with a micrometer over one without a micrometer? ie what can they do that an equivalent die without a micrometer can't do?

[Stix]

I think for the most parr they are a finer (secondary) thread allows for easy seating depth adjustment...one thou incriments marked on die...

[marksman]

once you have adjusted the die nothing
they are just one of them things that look pretty, gives you something to talk about and add weight once you have adjusted it to suit your oal

ps I have a few and have never found one yet that works in the one thou increments like they are supposed to

[Cooper]

I have 4 of them. I like being able to dial in different seating depths on the fly. Having the micro seater function just makes it a bit faster. I run a few different projectiles with different seating depths.

With my standard seating dies I still mark with a texta my desire seating depth (on adjustment knob) it is pretty easy easy to work out how much a full turn or half turn adjusts seating depth. Bit harder to get precise adjustments without checking the measurements several times. Forster make pretty good dies.

[bladeracer]

this might be a dumb question but what's the advantage of purchasing say a Forster seating die with a micrometer over one without a micrometer? ie what can they do that an equivalent die without a micrometer can't do?

They allow you to adjust your bullet seating depths so every round has exactly the same jump to the lands. Load your rounds a few thou long, then measure each one to the ogive diameter of your chamber, and use the adjuster to dial the seating depth precisely for each round. Time consuming and unnecessary for most ammo. You can do the same with standard seating dies, but they don't have the scale. Lee dies use a thread that works out roughly .006" per full turn.

[gordicans]

so let me get this straight...you can do the same thing without a micrometer but it's just a little bit slower and more inconvenient? you have to fiddle around with the vernier calipers rather than the micrometer or am I missing something?

[bladeracer]

:lol: once you have adjusted the die nothing
they are just one of them things that look pretty, gives you something to talk about and add weight once you have adjusted it to suit your oal

ps I have a few and have never found one yet that works in the one thou increments like they are supposed to

If you are going to use it like a standard die then it offers zero benefit at all. They are for loading each individual round to identical bullet jump.

[bladeracer]

so let me get this straight...you can do the same thing without a micrometer but it's just a little bit slower and more inconvenient? you have to fiddle around with the vernier calipers rather than the micrometer or am I missing something?

Yes, you are missing something. You don't use these to do the same job as a standard seating die, these are for removing the individual differences between each round, but you can do the same with standard dies, just without the scale marked on them.

[in2anity]

The better your tools, the faster and more precise your workflow. Having the micrometer basically turns a two-step process into one (no need to adjust then measure). Another advantage of the forster die is the bullet seating stem is usually a better fit than say a Lee. Nevertheless, will a Lee die still generate accurate loads? Abso -f*****g- lutely; we're splitting hairs here. IMO these sorts of comparisons should be reserved for benchrest shooters and the likes. Here's a good comparision video of the various dies: https://youtu.be/OCKQY9qSAqI?list=PLTTr ... 41PTxhtncm

[bladeracer]

The better your tools, the faster and more precise your workflow. Having the micrometer basically turns a two-step process into one (no need to adjust then measure). Another advantage of the forster die is the bullet seating stem is usually a better fit than say a Lee. Nevertheless, will a Lee die still generate accurate loads? Abso -f*****g- lutely; we're splitting hairs here. IMO these sorts of comparisons should be reserved for benchrest shooters and the likes. Here's a good comparision video of the various dies: https://youtu.be/OCKQY9qSAqI?list=PLTTr ... 41PTxhtncm

The micrometer die slows your workflow, not speed it up. It basically adds another step, customizing the length of each individual round to take out the variations inherent in bullet manufacture.

[in2anity]

The micrometer die slows your workflow, not speed it up. It basically adds another step, customizing the length of each individual round to take out the variations inherent in bullet manufacture.

huh? but it's set and forget? once you achieve your targetted length, there's no need to touch it (for a batch)?

[bladeracer]

The micrometer die slows your workflow, not speed it up. It basically adds another step, customizing the length of each individual round to take out the variations inherent in bullet manufacture.

huh? but it's set and forget? once you achieve your targetted length, there's no need to touch it (for a batch)?

In want to set and forget then don't waste your money on a micrometer die.

[in2anity]

In want to set and forget then don't waste your money on a micrometer die.

I don't follow. The micrometer adjustment cuts out the need to incrementally measure the round with calipers. If you want a few more or less thou, you can quickly and precisley dial it and go. Are you saying (in contrast to this), you measure every single round Blade?

[bladeracer]

In want to set and forget then don't waste your money on a micrometer die.

I don't follow. The micrometer adjustment cuts out the need to incrementally measure the round with calipers. If you want a few more or less thou, you can quickly and precisley dial it and go. Are you saying (in contrast to this), you measure every single round Blade?

If you simply want to turn out 100 rounds of hunting ammo, you don't need this.
Even the highest-quality bullets still have variations in ogive length, so each round in your batch still has variations in jump. Measure your rounds, batch them bý variation in ogive length, then run them through the mic die to dial that variation out and make them all identical in jump.

[gordicans]

now this noobie is really confused

[gordicans]

"so each round in your batch still has variations in jump. Measure your rounds, batch them bý variation in ogive length, then run them through the mic die to dial that variation out and make them all identical in jump"

Bladeracer but you can do exactly the same thing using calipers no?

[bladeracer]

now this noobie is really confused

I don't have time to be googling stuff just now, but this thread looks to touch on it http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/micrometer-bullet-seating-dies.3909362/

[gordicans]

thnx blade

[bladeracer]

"so each round in your batch still has variations in jump. Measure your rounds, batch them bý variation in ogive length, then run them through the mic die to dial that variation out and make them all identical in jump"

Bladeracer but you can do exactly the same thing using calipers no?

Yep, you still need calipers regardless. The caliper gives you the information, the dial on the die is where you input that information. I just mark the top of my seating die into .001" or .0005" increments - basically one-sixth and one-twelfth of a turn.

You've determined that you want to seat your bullets for exactly .012" of jump for example, so you want your rounds to measure 2.018" at the exact ogive diameter of your chamber. You set up your seating die to turn out a batch of 100 rounds at 2.022" say. Then you measure them and batch them by length, you might have 3x2.0245", 7x2.240",18x2.0235", 45x2.0230", 19x2.02250", 6x2.0220", and 2x2.0215". Then you put a 2.0225" round in the mic die, run the stem down onto the bullet, adjust it down another .0045", and seat those rounds, measuring them to confirm. Then wind it down another .0005" and run the 2.0230" rounds through it, and so on.

[Sergeant Hartman]

My 2 cents worth.

If you are making hunting rounds or just have 1 projectile per calibre than a standard seating die is fine.

Micrometer die gives you a visual representation so you can say my 69gr Sierra are 1.55 on the micrometer and my 55gr zmax are 1.45. Next time you losing 55gr you dial 1.45 and that's it.

Also note more expensive (competition type) seating dies will have a slieve that hold the brass case and part of the bullet so makes the ammo more concentric, which if you are shooting paper or benchrest will help you get better group's

Also I have noticed that the thread on the Lee seating dies that I have at least the threads are not the same so some full rotation can measure different from other rotations

Now blade has mentioned an interesting thing, makes sense looks like i need to research and ask questions

[gordicans]

thanks Ziad, you've allayed my fears somewhat. I've ordered the Forster bench rest seating die and was wondering if I should've got one with the micrometer. But I'm only loading for one caliber so the micrometer although nice to have I'm suspecting is not essential.

[bladeracer]

thanks Ziad, you've allayed my fears somewhat. I've ordered the Forster bench rest seating die and was wondering if I should've got one with the micrometer. But I'm only loading for one caliber so the micrometer although nice to have I'm suspecting is not essential.

Although not essential, it would likely be useful if you are shooting Benchrest competition. Outside of Benchrest, or possibly F-Class type long-distance shooting I don't see any value to the mic dies. As you can see from this thread, most people use them like a standard die anyway.

[bladeracer]

My 2 cents worth.

If you are making hunting rounds or just have 1 projectile per calibre than a standard seating die is fine.

Micrometer die gives you a visual representation so you can say my 69gr Sierra are 1.55 on the micrometer and my 55gr zmax are 1.45. Next time you losing 55gr you dial 1.45 and that's it.

Also note more expensive (competition type) seating dies will have a slieve that hold the brass case and part of the bullet so makes the ammo more concentric, which if you are shooting paper or benchrest will help you get better group's

Also I have noticed that the thread on the Lee seating dies that I have at least the threads are not the same so some full rotation can measure different from other rotations

Now blade has mentioned an interesting thing, makes sense looks like i need to research and ask questions

I haven't noticed any difference in the 50+ Lee die sets I have, I'm sure they're all 1.5mm thread pitch. Are there some chamberings that use a different size seating adjuster?

[Stix]

now this noobie is really confused

Gordigans & In2...
In simple terms...
As you would know, the seater stem in a standard die is adjusted up & down by winding it up & down in the thread of the die body...

A micro seater die has another adjustment that effectively has a finer thread, therefor allowing for finer adjustments.

I have found it handy for switching different projectiles in the way that i get the right oal sooner than mucking around with a standard die.

But...as marksman said, once you've got the seater die set, its set...

As for calipers/vernier ...these are just the tool for measuring the length of the loaded round (or projectile), which you need (& will already have) if you are measuring your handloads for the distance the loaded bullet is away from where it will first make contact with the rifling (the bullet jump).

So...a finer thread means it is easier for fine adjustments...

As to whether you NEED one, you will only know from using one...

Dont know if ive made it easier to understand...

[gordicans]

I wish there was a ''like'' button on this forum like in twitter...thnx Stix

[Stix]

Ah...i didnt see page 2...im a bit slow on the uptake...

[marksman]

In want to set and forget then don't waste your money on a micrometer die.

I don't follow. The micrometer adjustment cuts out the need to incrementally measure the round with calipers. If you want a few more or less thou, you can quickly and precisley dial it and go. Are you saying (in contrast to this), you measure every single round Blade?

even with a micrometer adjustment on the die you still need to measure your oal with calipers
you do not lose this step because you have a micrometer adjustment
even the guys who believe its necessary because they change projectile sizes frequently do not have any advantage over a die that does not have a micrometer adjustment, you still have to set the die up check oal then forget it till you want to change the oal again
the only people who believe the micrometer adjustments are precise are the salesman

where I have seen it a benefit is if you are adjusting oal at the range with hand dies and an arbor press

[in2anity]

In want to set and forget then don't waste your money on a micrometer die.

I don't follow. The micrometer adjustment cuts out the need to incrementally measure the round with calipers. If you want a few more or less thou, you can quickly and precisley dial it and go. Are you saying (in contrast to this), you measure every single round Blade?

even with a micrometer adjustment on the die you still need to measure your oal with calipers
you do not lose this step because you have a micrometer adjustment
even the guys who believe its necessary because they change projectile sizes frequently do not have any advantage over a die that does not have a micrometer adjustment, you still have to set the die up check oal then forget it till you want to change the oal again
the only people who believe the micrometer adjustments are precise are the salesman

where I have seen it a benefit is if you are adjusting oal at the range with hand dies and an arbor press

My one gets me close to the target - only need two measures to be exact (instead of significantly more than that)

[SCJ429]

I agree Marksman, I have Redding and Forster micrometer dies and still have to measure with dial calipers to get the right COAL. The marks are a reference point but they don't seems to seat the bullet down by the adjustment you thought you made. I am very happy with my Redding seater, it makes nice straight 6mm BR ammo.

I can also make some nice straight ammo with Lee dies which cost me $30.