55gr Vmax problem

[Member-Deleted]

Just started a new batch of 55gr Vmax and the last 4 dogs that I've used them on have been runners not the bang flop type I found the 4 dogs although one was a week later and couldn't really see the bullet hole due to other dogs eating the carcass but the other three I found the hole was straight through the chest 1.5'' dia on exit side to me this is rare they usually explode inside one of the shots had actually taken out a rib bone and not exploded the polymer tips seem the same as the older vmax when hit the dogs were leaving bits of meat and lung/liver sprayed on the ground this I had rarely seen with vmax i'm just wondering if I have a harder batch of vmax this time round I don't like dogs running as some you won't find i'm very lucky that I've found all 4 this time in the last 10yrs I've only lost 3dogs to pass through as there was good blood sign that they were hit hard in heart /lung area i was using lead soft nose that's why i went to vmax so just wondering if anyone else has noticed anything different with the vmax they use

[bigrich]

i used 55gn vmax on some roos a while ago in my 222 . very explosive , it sounds unusual. maybe they've changed the construction . hornady also make a zmax , which is supposed to be very explosive . the z is for zombies apparently

[Blr243]

Only once have I seen 58 v max from my 243 blow up on the surface , I was useing them in an inappropriate situation and never again will go there. I don’t think of even a big dog as something that has a well muscled protective layer guarding its vitals I think a conventional softpoint , or a v max from a 222 , 223 or a 22250 should be perfect for a side on dog ...... from your post I can assume confidently that u know about dogs, shot placement , bullet construction and that you are examining the finer points in the interests of ethical results . That’s great ... but sometimes we might get a small run of tough individuals that don’t bang flop as expected even though we are doing everything correctly. ... eg 99 per cent of the pigs I shoot only need one shot. In the last two months I have shot my two biggest pigs ever. One 87 gn vmax and they were done, But about 2-3 weeks ago I shot a small pig that took 4. I was shocked. It was as if I was useing an air rifle on a cape buff. Sometimes we can’t get perfect results every time. I’m not sure there is anything you need to change for the moment. The next half dozen dogs you shoot with the same ammunition will provide more conclusive information

[marksman]

l haven't heard anything but it sounds like the bullet jackets they make the bullets out of are harder in your batch,
maybe all vmax bullets now

because it wasn't just one you know for sure its the whole box anyway

[bigrich]

I’m not trying to be a smart arz blr, and I suppose ya use what ya got, but I woulda thought 87 vmax a bit lightly constructed for pigs . But they go alright hey ? I know a fella who’s used them on deer to good effect. “They don’t like them” is his quote. Goes against what their marketed for

[Blr243]

I have shot approx 110 pigs this year from the tiny to the crackers I only shoot them side on. Then they perform as what I like to call them “accurate bombs” But I am aware they are designed, built and marketed as varmint projectiles If I have to shoot a pig from behind I only do so if the pig is as big as a loaf of bread. Any bigger than that I just let them run away

[bigrich]

I have shot approx 110 pigs this year from the tiny to the crackers I only shoot them side on. Then they perform as what I like to call them “accurate bombs” But I am aware they are designed, built and marketed as varmint projectiles If I have to shoot a pig from behind I only do so if the pig is as big as a loaf of bread. Any bigger than that I just let them run away

Makes sense on how to use that projectile. Thanks for the information

[Stix]

Im thinking along the same lines as marksman...

Ive had 2 different batches of 20 cal Zmax differ like that on foxes...first batch of 500 i only had holes blown through skin when hit on the spine...apart from those misplaced shots, every fox i skun out had no pelt damage & was just a big bruised chest cavity filled with minced organs & clotting blood...

The next batch (the one im on now) blows holes on exit 95 % of the time regardless of where they are hit...
Infact, last weekend i knocked a fox at 186 yds in lower neck/just above shoulder blade & there was a neat 20 cal hole on entry, & no exit wound...(actually-- im trying some 32 Nosler Varmeggedon's & cant remember if i used them on this fox... ...so much for conclusive testing eh... )

Yet I shot only weeks before that one with same loaded batch of ammo, in the neck--it was doing the low down ninja skip across a paddock at 95 yds so i let rip about a foot infront of its head & it blew a huge hole in neck on exit...
Also like you, with the first batch, not one single fox moved so much as a step when hit, but with this newer batch, many move even just a few steps before going down, & some take 2 shots...
So im moving off them, looking for a better alternative, as im sick of the bullets not performing...

So i think its the same thing--a tougher jacket on that batch...
Someone else told me it could be a thicker base too...but i dont know enough about bullet construction to know what the difference would be...

So ive had NO luck on any further fox skins this year--ive had bad luck in every one ive hit with no damage (only 3) have had mange... (thats since promising some skins to a couple of people for Xmas... )

Anyway...i digress...
The range will affect the outcome (velocity)...but im surprised a 22 cal 55gn Vmax only leaves a 1.5" hole on a dog...they must be tough ones...

Shame we cant anneal bullets... ...or can we...

Is it worth swapping them over--as a hunter with the experience & expertise you have on shooting dogs , im sure the importer would swap your bullets for a different batch number if you contacted them directly...

[Member-Deleted]

I don't intend to change anything on this situation as they are accurate I've used them since I bought the 85 22-250 it has always used vmax other than about 50 soft point in the early part then I swapped to vmax and they kill fast and humanely but there is one good thing coming from this batch is I know they'll die with the size of the in/exit wound but I would prefer to have them die as quick as humanly possible and not 50/100yds away

[Member-Deleted]

G'day stix the company probably would but I get nothing for the skins so finding them isn't really any more than finding it died quick rather than run 100m before dying although they're actually dead on their feet it's only adrenalin keeping them going but seeing them where they were hit I know it was quick as far as them being tough well they'd be the toughest animal I've ever shot

[Stix]

I wasnt suggesting you change bullet...rather change the batch...

[Blr243]

It’s excellent to hear all the different experiences and results from everyone all over our country ...otherwise we only have our own incidents to learn from

[Blr243]

Roughly a year ago I saw nothing in three days on my S E Q place Friday night I saw a deer and a dog. So two weeks from now I’m going back. I need to get a dog.

[Member-Deleted]

Yeah stix mate i'll do that

[Member-Deleted]

Blr243 mate you are making a big mistake in chasing a dog I shot my first dog when I was around 9yr old and haven't been able to cure the fever since its like gold fever

[GQshayne]

How is the condition of the animals???? Over the years I have found that drought obviously effects their condition a great deal, but a secondary effect is the penetration needed by projectiles. Projectiles that work well on pig pigs were not so good on animals suffering in the drought, as their poor condition allowed the projectiles to pass through without much expansion.

[Member-Deleted]

Yeah nah CQshayne the dogs here hardly ever get poor its still good area for food in dry times plenty of water and irrigated crops further out west they still have good pickins as far as dogs go even so I've shot dogs that were very poor and still never had a clean through with the vmax 55gr (224) or 22-250 i'm nearly convinced it is a harder projectile but yet to be proven I see where you are coming from and that it is very possible but I presume it would be the larger calibers not the smaller faster calibers

[marksman]

its the speed that has the effect
they benchrest guys complained about bergers being too soft and blowing up in mid air because of the velocity used for long range shooting so berger toughened the jackets up and made them near useless for game at distance where beforehand they were incredible killers
but that's why they have the hunting bullets as well as the target bullets
l am convinced it would be the jackets in that batch but if you are getting kills with them you are getting kills
next lot will give you an idea

[Member-Deleted]

Yeah hopefully Marksman

[Stix]

Like i said before, id give the importers a call, & a follow up email to that call...
Also send one to Hornady as well, expressing exactly what you have here...

Ask them to exchange the batch, or send a different batch to test in good faith...

[Member-Deleted]

Well another turn up for the books on the 55gr I shot another dog today and it was a complete pass through dog dropped and was found entry hole pencil hole exit was pencil hole as well bullet passed through the mid shoulder most likely passing through the shoulder blade bone i'm convinced it is the projectiles or this batch atleast now that i'm aware of it i'll use them for setting my other 22-250 up and get a new lot

[Blr243]

GDB. How come u getting so many dogs? It’s not fair Please leave some for us

[Member-Deleted]

Just lucky Blr243 although a good reason is some prawn up here in council took the bounty off wild dogs and since then bugga all people shoot them now also the National Parks are buying up properties and closing them off to shooters hence breeding grounds for wild dogs yep wonders will never cease where councils are concerned they still bait but dogs are not stupid and avoid the baits so this is one battle the council around here is going to loose if bounties aren't brought back

[Am88]

I'm weaning myself off Vmax's for this reason and others stated in another thread here a while ago, seem to be inconsistencies, I've had them before, I wonder if it's the old adage of you get what you pay for, maybe nosler and whoever else are dearer for a reason, consistency.