Reloading the 17 Hornet

Reloading equipment, methods, load data, powder and projectile information.

Reloading the 17 Hornet

Post by Bills Shed » 26 Feb 2014, 6:12 pm

Just picked up a CZ 527 classic, in 17 Hornet. It will be a hunting rifle only.

I can not remember the last time I bought new brass, but for a new rifle I thought new brass would be the ticket.

When the brass arrived I considered it pretty average. Main issue was the slightly concave case heads. I would not have noticed it if I had not been looking for it. Other small calibre forums put me onto it.

Other than that the cases still got the full treatment for case prep, primer pocket uniformed, FLS, trimmed, flash hole deburr. I did not neck turn--never have. I will not anneal until after the fifth firing.

I only shoot ADI powders. I will only be shooting 20 gn Vmax. ADI only have one listing for the 20 gn and that has a starting load of 11.0 gn of 2207 with a max of 11.8gn which is compressed.

I dutifully loaded up 10 rounds of each powder weight from 11.0 up to 11.6 in 0.1 increments. Powder was measured by weight and not volume. All 10 cases for each powder weight were within 0.1 of a grain. I am not sure how they did it but I could not get any more than 11.6 grains of 2207 in a case. Powder was compressed from 11.2gn and up. COL was straight out of the book.

Has any one else been using ADI powders and found this during their reloading for this calibre?

I use 11.0 gn of 2205 in a K hornet with no pressure signs and I notice that ADI list 2205 for the 17 Ackley Hornet.

I have loaded up the min charge of 8.5gn of 2205 for the 17 Hornet and will give it a run as well. I can not see any dramas with this load as the Ackley is only marginally bigger than the 17H.

Any suggestions? These will be tested this weekend over the chronograph at 100m.

BILL
Last edited by Bills Shed on 02 Mar 2014, 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Reloading the 17 Hornet

Post by Bills Shed » 02 Mar 2014, 9:51 am

For those that may be interested this little calibre is a beauty.

PLEASE NOTE THESE LOADS WORKED IN MY RIFLE. PLEASE TAKE ALL PRECAUTIONS WHEN WORKING UP YOUR OWN LOADS. ALWAYS START LOW AND WORK UP.

Every group shot was three rounds. All shot at 100m. I am hunting and seldom do I fire five rounds at a time. I fired five round groups when I was getting the better velocity that I was after. On that note there was only one group that went over 1 inch and that was probably my fault. All group sizes are measured centre to centre. Rifle was scrubbed between groups to break the barrel in and ensure fowling was not an issue. Lots of cleaning!!!

I was very impressed with the accuracy from group one. After all the testing I am going to settle on 10 grains of AR2205 under a Hornady 20 gn Vmax. Federal small rifle primer. No excessive pressure signs, powder level is at the bottom of the shoulder, not a compresed load, excellent grouping and hopefully good case life. COL is straight out of the book but will play with it a bit but it must still must work through a magazine. At 0.56" at 100m this is more than enough accuracy for my needs.

All powder was weighed and check weighed on a laboratory analytical balance. I find a powder thrower is only good for about 0.2 of a grain and with these small cases 0.2 is a large discrepancy.

Started with book starting load 11.0 gn of 2207, .728" but with a average velocity of 3055 fps
11.1, 3110 fps, .642". Obturation was poor to average, primers set back slightly and still perfectly formed. Low pressure.
11.2, 3150 fps, 1.2"
11.3, 3182 fps, .803"
Etc. Etc
11.6, 3268 fps, 873". Perfect obturation, primers just starting to loose their roundness at the edges. This was a compressed load with powder right to the top of the neck and still 0.2 grains below ADI Max load.

With the info from Nick Harvey --- All five round groups---
AR2205, 10.0 gn, 3495 fps, .560".
10.1, .665", Chrono failed at this point as the shade came over and would not detect the projectile
etc. etc
10.4, .558"
10.5, .673" five round group, definite pressure signs, no sticky bolt. One sooty primer. defiantly MAX, not a compressed load.

I am not a BR shooter but this little rifle made sub MOA easy. Little to no recoil, low noise and cheap to run. You will get over 750 rounds out of a 1/2 kg tin of powder!

Bill
Last edited by Bills Shed on 02 Mar 2014, 5:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Reloading the 17 Hornet

Post by Member-Deleted » 02 Mar 2014, 10:02 am

That sounds like a lot of work, did you try any factory rounds at all?
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Re: Reloading the 17 Hornet

Post by Apollo » 02 Mar 2014, 10:25 am

Have you squashed a finger yet during bullet seating with your press..?? Way back first time reloading .204R I found those little 26gr bullets a little fiddly to sit on top of the case neck without falling off before entering the seating die.

I wonder if you have considered using small pistol primers as widely used with the .22 Hornet to solve the false ignition spike. Since it is the same case but lighter bullet I think the same issue would apply and make an improvement to accuracy.

Also with the .22Hornet I found that neither AR2205 or AR2207 was as accurate as Winchester 296 even from winter to summer temperature variations. No problems getting compressed loads as the powder is so small, just kept jamming my powder trickler.

The main issue I had with the .22Hornet was the lack of neck tension and crimping certainly provided another improvement in accuracy. With the smaller neck and now a reasonable shoulder perhaps the .17Hornet doesn't suffer the same problem.

Took me quite some time but I got the two .22Hornets shooting under 0.5" @ 100 with 5 shots at a tad over 3,250fps, 30gr Barnes VG. One a CZ527, the other a Brno Fox 2.

Anyway, I'm sure you are enjoying the new calibre. I'd love to test one out yet alone see how fine I could tune it. Really like the CZ527's, very good value.
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Re: Reloading the 17 Hornet

Post by Bills Shed » 02 Mar 2014, 11:43 am

Apollo wrote:Have you squashed a finger yet during bullet seating with your press..?? Way back first time reloading .204R I found those little 26gr bullets a little fiddly to sit on top of the case neck without falling off before entering the seating die.

I wonder if you have considered using small pistol primers as widely used with the .22 Hornet to solve the false ignition spike. Since it is the same case but lighter bullet I think the same issue would apply and make an improvement to accuracy.

Also with the .22Hornet I found that neither AR2205 or AR2207 was as accurate as Winchester 296 even from winter to summer temperature variations. No problems getting compressed loads as the powder is so small, just kept jamming my powder trickler.

The main issue I had with the .22Hornet was the lack of neck tension and crimping certainly provided another improvement in accuracy. With the smaller neck and now a reasonable shoulder perhaps the .17Hornet doesn't suffer the same problem.

Took me quite some time but I got the two .22Hornets shooting under 0.5" @ 100 with 5 shots at a tad over 3,250fps, 30gr Barnes VG. One a CZ527, the other a Brno Fox 2.

Anyway, I'm sure you are enjoying the new calibre. I'd love to test one out yet alone see how fine I could tune it. Really like the CZ527's, very good value.


Hi Apollo,

No I didn't have any factory ammo. I have not bought any CF ammunition for many years. I prefer to build it.

Have not squashed my finger yet but I know what you mean. I am using my swaging press as a reloading press and so it is a bit of an overkill.

I will try the crimping of the pills in the future but will be sticking to 2205 as I have lots of it sitting around.

I have not tried the 30 gr pill in my k hornet but I will swage a hundred or so to give them a go.

Thanks for the advice

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Re: Reloading the 17 Hornet

Post by Apollo » 02 Mar 2014, 11:54 am

Keep up the reports Bill, very interested in how well this calibre will perform.

Give the Small Pistol Primers a run, you might be surprised. I use the CCI in .22Hornet.

As my friends are Pelt collectors the main research done here on a number of calibres is reducing pelt damage so I'd be keen to hear some reports on how the varmints go you might come across.

Best of luck.
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Re: Reloading the 17 Hornet

Post by Bills Shed » 06 Mar 2014, 10:19 am

Apollo wrote:Keep up the reports Bill, very interested in how well this calibre will perform.

Give the Small Pistol Primers a run, you might be surprised. I use the CCI in .22Hornet.

As my friends are Pelt collectors the main research done here on a number of calibres is reducing pelt damage so I'd be keen to hear some reports on how the varmints go you might come across.


Took this little rifle out last night and what a cracker!

Game taken were wallaby. ( under permit) Ranges were 5-200m. Several were much longer. Load was 10.1 grains of AR2205 under a 20 Vmax.

This is a very flat shooting rifle out to to 200 mark. I did put a light crimp on the projectile as suggested above but did not change my primer. Still using the federal SR. The Vmax were superb in their function. The simple combination of accuracy and flatness gave confidence to take the shots right out across the paddocks and gully's. Some may say that 200 m is not that far, but the reality of night shooting from a vehicle, by yourself, at night at all angles is not exactly BR conditions.

In regards to pelt damage, there was only one body shot and that was chest area and within 100m. The projectile did exit. You would not have salvaged the pelt.

If anybody wants to know what I thought of the RIFLE and how it performed in reality opposed to a bench let me know.

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Re: Reloading the 17 Hornet

Post by Apollo » 06 Mar 2014, 1:09 pm

Thanks for the update Bill.

Sounds like it is producing the goods as the screed goes for bringing down the .22Hornet to a .17Cal.

Your description of the pelt sounds like the same as the mate and I found using Vmax or sililiar tipped bullets with our .204R and the .22Hornet before we changed to the Berger Hollow Points.

I'm selling stuff trying to pay for the livestock feed bill but my mate is in love with CZ's & Brno's, He was thinking of upgrading his Brno Hornet to a CZ so I'd better work on him and see if I can get him interested.

Again, thanks for the reports.
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Re: Reloading the 17 Hornet

Post by Bills Shed » 31 Mar 2014, 8:44 pm

Just for an update on the VMax and 17 hornet.

I know 200 m is not a long distance but the 17 hornet made short work of some feral cats yesterday. Also rolled a couple of rabbits at about the 150 mark. The 20 grain VMax did exit on the rabbits but not one of the cats.

This little 17 shoots so flat that at 200m the drop is almost negligible for hunting purposes

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Re: Reloading the 17 Hornet

Post by Apollo » 31 Mar 2014, 8:54 pm

That's great news and the drop factor is what I would expect from the increased velocity. Don't know about wind though as most .17 calibre suffer there.

Again, pity you are so far away, would really love a few shots.
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Re: Reloading the 17 Hornet

Post by Bob » 06 Jun 2015, 8:03 am

Hi guys have been loading the 17 Hornet for 2 years getting best results with the 20 grain v max and 10 .2 grains of 2205 runs at just on 3600fps and is very accurate in my cz 527.
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Re: Reloading the 17 Hornet

Post by Bills Shed » 06 Jun 2015, 5:38 pm

Hi Bob,
Sounds almost identical to what works in my little 17. I know I can push it a bit faster but at 10.1 grains of 2205 it shoots just fine. Have not cracked any cases to date and still working on the first tin of powder. There is a lot of shoot in a single tin!
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Re: Reloading the 17 Hornet

Post by Bob » 06 Jun 2015, 8:26 pm

Hi Bill
I have loaded my cases 11 times they seem to need trimming every 4 reloads have not had 1 case split as yet it shoots 10 mm groups at 100m consistently .I only use it for pest bird and fox control works great on foxes out to 200 m .
Cheers Bob
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Re: Reloading the 17 Hornet

Post by Varmtr » 07 Jun 2015, 10:51 pm

As others have said small pistol primers a try or CCI BR4 or Federal small benchrest primers. Also if you can get it try Hodgdons Lil-Gun.
In my K-Hornet CCI BR4 nd Lil-Gun works a treat.
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Re: Reloading the 17 Hornet

Post by Chickenhawk » 09 Jun 2015, 2:51 pm

Member-Deleted wrote:That sounds like a lot of work


It does, yup.

Rough guess Bill, how long do you reckon it takes you to per finished cartridge?
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Re: Reloading the 17 Hornet

Post by Bills Shed » 09 Jun 2015, 8:28 pm

Chickenhawk wrote:
Member-Deleted wrote:That sounds like a lot of work


It does, yup.

Rough guess Bill, how long do you reckon it takes you to per finished cartridge?


This question can be a bit hard to give definates. The first case prep takes longer than just a clean and a reload. Annealing every 4~5 firing and /or trimming all takes different times. If you added the seconds together it would probably take less than a minute. Everything is done in batches of a hundred or more at a time. I have spent a lot of time and effort building power trimmers, tumblers and gauges that speed up the process no end.
Loading the complete round is quick compared to building the projectile. Just starting to build .172 jacket swaging ring die. The .22 pills that I build are good to shoot and building the gear for reloading is just as rewarding as a good group, but that is for another thread.

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Re: Reloading the 17 Hornet

Post by BBJ » 10 Jun 2015, 10:52 am

Bills Shed wrote:The .22 pills that I build are good to shoot and building the gear for reloading is just as rewarding as a good group, but that is for another thread.


I'm sure we're interested to read it if you'll write it ;)
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Re: Reloading the 17 Hornet

Post by muntjac » 04 Jul 2015, 10:34 pm

Hi All, If you are thinking of using Hodgdons Lil-gun powder be very careful do not use Hodgdons loading data of starting load of 9.7grains to 10 grains maximum load as this is way too high. Quite a few shooters in the United Kingdom reloading the .17 Hornady Hornet using the Hodgdon Lil-gun powder experienced high pressures blowing primers out of the case.I suggest a starting load of 9.0grains with a maximum of 9.3 grains for this powder. 9.3 grains gives 3710fps in my CZ 527 American rifle but its not very consistent and groups about 1" to 1.5" at a 100yards Has any of you reloaders down under noticed the the primer pocket varies in depth in the Hornady Hornet brass by as much as 22 thousands of an inch or about .5 of a mm we have cut the primer pockets to.124" in depth. The load I am using at the moment is 10.2 grains of Accurate 5744 powder giving a muzzle velocity of 3629fps and a 3 shot group of .625" at 100 yards. muntjac(UK)
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Re: Reloading the 17 Hornet

Post by Bills Shed » 05 Jul 2015, 5:43 pm

I have read about the Lil gun powder but have never seen it on the shelves at any of the LGS in my area. Thanks for the heads up. I run the Australian made powders as is easy to get hold of and it works very well.
As for the Horady brass, it seams that it has been a issue from the start but I do not think it is a show stopper. The brass that I first bought , and still using, did have concave case heads. As to primer pockets being .022" out, that is a long way! I did uniform all the pockets with a Sinclair SR primer pocket cutter. I did find one case that the cutter did not clean up as the pocket was way too deep. After the usual prep the brass was fine and has done great service.
Next time I will fire form my own from new Win brass.

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Re: Reloading the 17 Hornet

Post by Norton » 06 Jul 2015, 9:48 am

Apollo wrote:Have you squashed a finger yet during bullet seating with your press..?? Way back first time reloading .204R I found those little 26gr bullets a little fiddly to sit on top of the case neck without falling off before entering the seating die.


I've done a little .223 reloading and couldn't keep my fingers out of the thing :thumbsdown:

Juggling the rigby bullets is much easier :lol:
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Re: Reloading the 17 Hornet

Post by Bills Shed » 14 Nov 2016, 9:46 am

image.jpeg
Jacket stages for a .172" , 17 gn at .526" long
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Just an update on the 17 Hornet, have successfull built a 17 gn projectile that is .526" long. Shoots very well at 3650f/s, with four shots going into .188" and the fifth pushing it out to over .600". The jacket was not annealed so that it would retain its strength and point form well. Not to bad for a scrap piece of brass! Please note the pic with the group size should read .526" long.
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Re: Reloading the 17 Hornet

Post by Harper » 17 Nov 2016, 11:21 am

That looks pro mate.

You'd think it was out of a box if you didn't know.
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Re: Reloading the 17 Hornet

Post by BRNO_Bigot » 23 Aug 2019, 11:43 pm

Sorry to do this, but I am just starting to reload this wonderful little calibre.

CZ 527 American

What can you guys tell me since 2014?


Incidentally - thanks for everything.
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Re: Reloading the 17 Hornet

Post by Bills Shed » 24 Aug 2019, 2:17 am

Another thing I learnt is that the 17H has really bad terminal ballistics at less than 1400F/S. Go fast or not at all.
A jacket with no core, (6gn) will not hit anything at 50m,
A 15gn projectile is about the lightest projectile that flys straight but it is very short and a bugger to handle when reloading.
22gn does not seem to group as well as a 25 but the 20gn seems to be just about perfect out of the CZ527.
I have yet to push a projectile fast enough out of the 17H that it disintegrates, so do not worry about going to fast. Leave that to the big cases.
It kicks the 17WSM ass!
Concentricity when seating the projectile is very important, so do not go bending the depriming pin/ expander ball rod like I did. That makes crappy ammo!

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Re: Reloading the 17 Hornet

Post by Timboon » 01 Oct 2019, 1:05 am

HI fellas,

The 17 hornet was one of the most fun fox taking rifles i can remember using. From memory the rifle we were using ( my mates dads ) was a brno...

A question - Obviously firstly you need to find a 22 hornet but i'm curious what barrels you guys are using to convert...

I dont mean to hijack this thread but if you guys were to build a 17 hornet, what components would you look to seek to build a really accurate reasonably priced rifle?

Brings back good memories you fellas talking about the 17 hornet and how accurate and efficient they are!
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Re: Reloading the 17 Hornet

Post by Bills Shed » 01 Oct 2019, 7:45 am

We may have a mix up here. Are you talking about the 17 Rem ( which has been around for quite a while) or the 17 Hornet which has been in Aust for less than 10 years.
I would not build a 17 Hornet but buy it off the shelf. My 527 shoots well enough without putting another barrel on it or modifying it for very little gain. I have no ambition to a rifle up.
Factory ammo is pricey compared to others but reloading is cheap if you buy projectiles in bulk. I did build my brass from 22 Hornet brass but new factory brass is easily found.

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Re: Reloading the 17 Hornet

Post by Timboon » 01 Oct 2019, 5:13 pm

I'm talking about the necked down 22 Hornet in 17. Was relatively uncommon 20 years ago.
I actually forgot they've now released factory ammo and sell rifles off the shelf.
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Re: Reloading the 17 Hornet

Post by Timboon » 01 Oct 2019, 5:57 pm

My mates old man built his from a 22 Hornet chassis and put a sprinter 17 barrel on it. Two stage hair trigger with a Khales 8x56 with fine cross hairs. Unlike most centrefires you actually enjoyed the challenge of trying to not even blink and watching everything unfold with bugger all recoil. Both the 17 Hornet he had and the Rem 17 were to this day two of the most accurate rifles I've used
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Re: Reloading the 17 Hornet

Post by marksman » 01 Oct 2019, 6:17 pm

Timboon wrote:I'm talking about the necked down 22 Hornet in 17. Was relatively uncommon 20 years ago.
I actually forgot they've now released factory ammo and sell rifles off the shelf.


your talking about the 17 ackley hornet Tim :drinks:
the 17 hornady hornet is a copy of it, it is 2mm shorter

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Re: Reloading the 17 Hornet

Post by marksman » 01 Oct 2019, 6:23 pm

Timboon wrote:HI fellas,

The 17 hornet was one of the most fun fox taking rifles i can remember using. From memory the rifle we were using ( my mates dads ) was a brno...

A question - Obviously firstly you need to find a 22 hornet but i'm curious what barrels you guys are using to convert...

I dont mean to hijack this thread but if you guys were to build a 17 hornet, what components would you look to seek to build a really accurate reasonably priced rifle?

Brings back good memories you fellas talking about the 17 hornet and how accurate and efficient they are!


I use shilen match grade barrels and the rifle closest is my boys that cost

$400 rifle
$350 barrel (it was a while ago, kevin rudd was in at that time :lol: ) the same barrel off brownells au is $600
$400 gunsmith

Image

sh!t I made a mistake that is mine not the boys :lol: this rifle cost $500 everything else is the same :drinks:
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