223 flash holes

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223 flash holes

Post by bones-350 » 10 Dec 2019, 7:34 pm

Got a lyman flash hole deburing tool but when i use this tool on 223 brass i notice it enlarges the 223 flash hole.
Could this cause problems as in safety or accuracy?
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Re: 223 flash holes

Post by sungazer » 10 Dec 2019, 7:51 pm

Yes it will change things considerably. The Small primer hole is typically 1.5mm and for a Large rifle primer 1.8mm. Keeping the hole smaller for a 223 I would say is a good thing given the fast burning powder and ADI powder ignites very easily. For instance even in a 6.5 / 308 case the small rifle primer results in more consistent ignition and burns.

The inside of the case just needs to be de burred and there are good tools to do this well and not really change the diameter of the hole or countersink it excessively.

There are tools for both SR and LR primer holes and of course there are different quality tools on the market to do it as well.
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Re: 223 flash holes

Post by marksman » 10 Dec 2019, 8:54 pm

the SAAMI spec. for rifle cases using the large primer is 0.078" - 0.082" or 1.98mm - 2.08mm

Small primer pocket rifle and pistol cases use a smaller flash hole size of .074" - .078" or 1.87mm - 1.98mm

European CIP brass use 1.6mm - 1.7mm flash holes

so different brands can use different flash hole sizes,
lmho if they are smaller holes leave them be but if you have de-burred already and enlarged the holes as long as they are all the same it should be ok

l have to get smaller primer pins for decapping different cases eg.. lapua br/dasher cases because they are made with the smaller flash holes and the standard pins would get stuck or break when used to decap

a theory is that the small flash hole creates more of a “jet” effect when the primer fires
here is a test/study done by german salazar from the old riflemans journey
https://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/20 ... hole-test/
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Re: 223 flash holes

Post by flutch » 10 Dec 2019, 9:06 pm

major issue you will face is having to do it to ALL your brass if you want to use it consistently all the time. else as mentioned above it will affect the ignition of the powder and despite the small time/surface area difference, with things that happen in an instant like this the minute difference in timing of the pressure due to the ignition of the powder will inevitably affect overall muzzle pressure/velocity as it will affect the burn rate of the powder, I personally never de-burr it with something that affects the flash hole.

only negative (if you choose to see it as that) is as above it will affect consistency rather than anything else, if you have done most of your brass keep it up, if you haven't then maybe keep the batch separate and test and compare and see how much difference its making.

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Re: 223 flash holes

Post by Sarco » 10 Dec 2019, 9:28 pm

I also use a Lyman deburring tool for my cases. All types, not just 223, and both handgun and rifle cases, also both small and large primer pockets.

In what way do you thing that it enlarges the flash holes?

The tip is quite fine (maybe slightly over 1mm though I have never measured it) and I believe that it is principally the shoulder that actually deburs the flash hole, a couple of twists is generally sufficient.
Certainly I notice that sometimes it is hard to get the tool to pass through the flash hole so that it (the tip), is visible in the primer pocket and also certainly sometimes it is very hard to hold the case firm enough to effectively debur (I use a pair of pliers on the rim to hold if necessary). I put this down to them being badly burred and rarely happens with better quality cases eg. Lapua.
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Re: 223 flash holes

Post by sungazer » 10 Dec 2019, 10:26 pm

On some dies the decapping pin will not fit through a small rifle flash hole. Lee is one of those. The press has plenty of power to push the de-capping pin through the brass it buggers the hole right up.
That new Alfa brass is advertising a 2mm flash hole with small rifle primers. I haven't heard anything good or bad about it since it was introduced here. In the US reports have been it is good for ultra cold temps not like what we would experience here.
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Re: 223 flash holes

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 11 Dec 2019, 1:07 am

I just ground my lee pin a bit to fit the smaller holes.
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Re: 223 flash holes

Post by SCJ429 » 11 Dec 2019, 7:07 am

My K&M cutting pilot is 0.060 and does not appear to touch the flash hole. Enlarging the flash hole is unlikely to improve your brass but removing the little kernel of brass will. Norma and Lapua appear to drill their flash holes and they are much cleaner than manufactures who punch theirs.
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Re: 223 flash holes

Post by Flyer » 11 Dec 2019, 4:14 pm

I've got the K&M tool, too. There are 0.062" and 0.080" versions. The 0.080" version won't even fit the extra-small flash hole brass, such as Lapua.

I don't debur Lappy brass – it's drilled and smooth as a baby's bum. But for Starline, ADI and other punched brass, it does clean up quite a lot. I don't know how much difference it makes, but it feels good doing it :D

ADI/OSA brass is interesting because most headstamps have the larger flash holes (0.080") but some (especially earlier brass) have the smaller flash hole.

Perhaps that is the issue you are having? If so, I'd say it's perfectly OK to enlarge the smaller flash holes to the larger size to uniform your brass.

EDIT: OK, I've just found some data I compiled on ADI brass for anyone interested:

ADI head stamp = 69gr SMK (hollow point)
Small flash holes, light brass (around 91.5gr +/- 0.5gr on average)

OSA small head stamp = 55gr BK (plastic tip)
Large flash holes, light brass (around 91.5gr +/- 0.5gr on average)

OSA large head stamp = 55gr GK (soft point)
Large flash holes, heavy brass (around 93.5gr +/- 0.5gr on average)
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Re: 223 flash holes

Post by bones-350 » 12 Dec 2019, 2:35 am

Sarco wrote:I also use a Lyman deburring tool for my cases. All types, not just 223, and both handgun and rifle cases, also both small and large primer pockets.

Certainly I notice that sometimes it is hard to get the tool to pass through the flash hole so that it (the tip), is visible in the primer pocket and also certainly sometimes it is very hard to hold the case firm enough to effectively debur (I use a pair of pliers on the rim to hold if necessary). I put this down to them being badly burred and rarely happens with better quality cases eg. Lapua.


Sarco I'm using ADI and OSA brass only for my 223 and finding with some brass exactly what you have found KM deburring tool comes in 2 sizes and lyman only makes 1 size this makes made me wonder if I'm actually enlarging the flash holes. ADI also makes 243 brass and I always buy and support Australian manufacturing before any other country. On another note how long before Scomo and his corrupt gang decide to sell ADI company to the Chinese I wounder....
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Re: 223 flash holes

Post by Apollo » 12 Dec 2019, 7:49 am

bones-350 wrote:On another note how long before Scomo and his corrupt gang decide to sell ADI company to the Chinese I wounder....


Sorry to burst your bubble but it's already been done. Not to the Chinese but to the French back in 2006. ADI is owned by the French Company Thales Group.
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Re: 223 flash holes

Post by Stix » 12 Dec 2019, 7:59 am

SCJ429 wrote:My K&M cutting pilot is 0.060 and does not appear to touch the flash hole. Enlarging the flash hole is unlikely to improve your brass but removing the little kernel of brass will. Norma and Lapua appear to drill their flash holes and they are much cleaner than manufactures who punch theirs.

All the norma brass ive bought over the last few years (a few hundred rounds) has had a lot of brass removed fron the flash hole...
If they were drilled, the drill was blunt & wasnt turning...!!
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Re: 223 flash holes

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 13 Dec 2019, 9:43 am

Apollo wrote:On another note how long before Scomo and his corrupt gang decide to sell ADI company to the Chinese I wounder...

Sorry to burst your bubble but it's already been done. Not to the Chinese but to the French back in 2006. ADI is owned by the French Company Thales Group.



Too true... but I am more laughing at the comment
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Re: 223 flash holes

Post by Apollo » 13 Dec 2019, 10:30 am

It is funny when so many people think they are supporting Australian Made but on investigation into the manufacturer find out they are supporting something made Overseas and perhaps their hard earned money also goes overseas.

It's a real joke when an Australian Company has sent all it's manufacturing overseas (China) and their past Aussie workforce no longer have a job.

As for ADI, well at least they are still in Australia and as best I know have an Aussie Workforce but.... I bet all the profits end up with the parent company...Thales Group.

Anyway, it's not the point of the Topic.
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