Shoulder bumping with the lee full length sizing die

[Potatoes]

When full length resizing, the conventional wisdom on the web is that i should be adjusting the die such that the shoulders are only pushed back enough so the bolt closes with some, but not too much resistance. This i beleive is nominally 1 or 2 thou, but without a comparator I’d be going off feel in the rifle. To maintain good neck tension should i keep using the FLS die expander or should i remove it and use the neck sizing die after neck bumping? Which would give the best neck tension consistency without overworking the brass?

Im reloading 223 ammo with a lee challenger press and I have a Lee FLS die and a collet neck sizing die.

[in2anity]

tater once you've bumped and can lockup adequatly, load and fireform the brass to match your chamber. Subsequent loads just neck size until the brass gets hard to extract (perhaps after 5 reloads, depending on pressures, that's my rule anyway). Only then should you FLS again (but no need to bump again as headspacing should still be close to exact).

Do you have any reson to suspect your neck tension is lacking after the initial bump stage?

[marksman]

even with a comparator you are going by feel you use the comparator to measure after you have found the measurement
but to be more exact you should pull your bolt apart and just use the bolt body for feel so there is no resistance from the firing pin, extractor ect...
the best neck neck tension lMHO is so that you cannot pull or push the projectile into or out of the case with your fingers, about 2 thou
neck tension is not as important if your bullet is touching when chambered and some loads are better with a lot of tension
you have to try things to find out yourself what works in your rifle, nothing is written in stone but it is good to ask questions

[Cooper]

I reckon shoulder bumping with a FLS is not correct. You are still Full Length sizing. Just setting up the die not to overwork the brass. Unless it is a custom FLS die matched to your chamber it will be still sizing the body of case. Unless your chamber is undersized.

I have a couple of the Forster shoulder bump bushing dies which just bump the shoulder not the body of the brass.

I normally just neck size. And even though I have the shoulder bump dies in a few calibers I mainly use the Lee Collet neck die. I don’t really full size. I am on 6th firing of my Lapua 6.5 Creedmoor brass just using the should bump neck sizer. I’m am not saying there is anything wrong with full length sizing. I just prefer to neck size.

[marksman]

the way you are thinking is correct Cooper but the poor mans bump die is a FLS'ing die with the neck drilled out

[Cooper]

the way you are thinking is correct Cooper but the poor mans bump die is a FLS'ing die with the neck drilled out

Yeah Forster can hone the neck of there full length sizing die out. When I first heard about their full length sizing die honing service. I thought it was matching or honing the die out to match your fired case or making it slightly undersized. But they essentially just drill (hone) the neck out.

Going back potatoes original question. I don’t run an expander in my bushing bump dies. But reckon if you removed the expander/decapping mandrel from you Lee FLS die you would have excessive neck tension. I guess the real way to see is to try it?

[marksman]

the lee rgb fld is the die of choice for the poor mans bump die
this is not a precision made reamed die
you drill out the neck and do not use an expander, you can even bump loaded ammo with this drilled out fls die
l heard about it from a couple of comp guys who were happy with the job there drilled out dies did, saved them a fortune

this is an interesting utube vid in regards to what we are discussing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnsuVBwbNJo

[in2anity]

FWIW I had success just ginding a shell holder down about 15 thou - that way you don't need to alter any dies, and shell holders are cheap. I'm not sure this will work in every situation though...

[SCJ429]

. To maintain good neck tension should i keep using the FLS die expander or should i remove it and use the neck sizing die after neck bumping? Which would give the best neck tension consistency without overworking the brass?

Im reloading 223 ammo with a lee challenger press and I have a Lee FLS die and a collet neck sizing die.

Some loads can work with high neck tension however it is hard to keep exactly the same amount on each bullet. With low tension it is easier to apply low amounts of grip on the bullet. Most loads will work with very low amounts of force holding the bullet. As Marksman said, just enough so you cannot move the bullet with your fingers is a good place to be.

You have a collet die, these are great. Adjust it until you only size the neck a couple of thou. Be gentle as it will feel like you have not sized the case at all. Load this way until the case become a little harder to chamber after repeated firings. Then you will have to full lenght resize. You may be able to go 10 or 20 firings before you need to do this.

You will have to use the dreaded expander ball when you do this otherwise you will have excessive neck tension.

Try some graphite lube if you are using new or tumbled brass. The clean necks are grabby and you will have more grip on the bullet than you want.

[Potatoes]

Thanks for all the posts, there are definitely some things for me to consider here.

One of the things i should point out is that i have been neck sizing and am finding that i can’t trim them because they won’t fit into the trim die. Also, a question for the neck sizing crowd, if every so often you have to full length resize, do you find that you have changed how the bullet performs due to the changed case capacity? Seems like a p in the a to have a different load for the same projectile.

I’m leaning towards a poor mans shoulder bump die (honed out FLS die) as described by marksman In order not to over work the neck brass.

[Cooper]

Hi potatoes

Are you using the Lee Quick trim die? I just neck size my brass (ADI) in 223. I one set that’s been reloaded at least 8 times without full length sizing. I have trimmed it a couple of times. Using the Lee quick trim die. Not sure how or why you brass isn’t fitting in the trim die unless it’s full length sized?

[Potatoes]

Hi potatoes

Are you using the Lee Quick trim die? I just neck size my brass (ADI) in 223. I one set that’s been reloaded at least 8 times without full length sizing. I have trimmed it a couple of times. Using the Lee quick trim die. Not sure how or why you brass isn’t fitting in the trim die unless it’s full length sized?

Yeah it just wont fit into the quick trim 223 die unless its full sized. I don’t want to squeeze it in because it may lengthen the case meaning it would have to FLS anyway.

[Stix]

the lee rgb fld is the die of choice for the poor mans bump die
this is not a precision made reamed die
you drill out the neck and do not use an expander, you can even bump loaded ammo with this drilled out fls die
l heard about it from a couple of comp guys who were happy with the job there drilled out dies did, saved them a fortune

this is an interesting utube vid in regards to what we are discussing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnsuVBwbNJo

Wish i knew this before i ordered the bump dies...
Bloody hell...!!...

[Potatoes]

the lee rgb fld is the die of choice for the poor mans bump die
this is not a precision made reamed die
you drill out the neck and do not use an expander, you can even bump loaded ammo with this drilled out fls die
l heard about it from a couple of comp guys who were happy with the job there drilled out dies did, saved them a fortune

this is an interesting utube vid in regards to what we are discussing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnsuVBwbNJo

Hey marksman, at 6.13 in that video he says he takes out the decapping pin, so how is he controlling neck tension?

This is the video i watched a week ago (among others) that started to get me thinking about my methods.

[sungazer]

Learning how to reload seems like a never ending process. There is no right way everyone does it slightly differently with different areas of importance. I find myself always changing the process using different equipment learning what and how each piece works. Trying to find what works to get the right load for your rifle. Then over time your rifle changes and you have to start over trying to find the cause can you change the load or the way you make the load to get things back on track.

[marksman]

Hey marksman, at 6.13 in that video he says he takes out the decapping pin, so how is he controlling neck tension?

This is the video i watched a week ago (among others) that started to get me thinking about my methods.

he has drilled the neck out so the neck does not get touched at all by the die, he is only bumping the shoulder with this die

he uses a lee collet die to size the neck and for neck tension, they are a very good die for factory chambers that you will not neck turn for

[sungazer]

When drilling out a die. it most likely only needs the very minimal amount of material removed. Measure the neck of a fired round and drill at or just under that size. Then to just put some wet and dry say 400 grit on a small drill and polish by hand. You only want the neck to just clear in the die and leave as much material in the die to shape the shoulder.

It is really easy to remove to much it is amazing how much just cleaning up the hole with different grades of wet and dry will enlarge the hole.

I have made quite a few different bushings to measure case length of the shoulder and quite a few I have made to big and had to start again. I was just using a piece of stainless rod and drilling the sizes I want. The same sort of thing as the Hornady comparator . I may get one of those in the end or I think the Redding ones would be good I have never been not satisfied with their stuff not so happy with some Hornady dies. I would never buy them again.