Differences in manuals .222mag

[Oldbloke]

Straight out of the ADI manual.

reduced loads .jpg (39.15 KiB) Viewed 3676 times

Reduced loads 60% max 2206H.JPG (72.59 KiB) Viewed 3676 times

[marksman]

l agree with SCJ429 that you would be better to use 2206h
the quickload info for 2206h is for 25.5gr max at 55614psi, 107.6% case fill, @3279fps with a 24" barrel using 55gr sierra blitzkings
l stress this is for what l would consider a max load and would start off at 24gr as l have suggested earlier but this does give you room to test an OCW
l also stress do not have your bullet touching or jammed into the lands unless you drop the powder charge a bit more for a start load and do not go to 25.5gr

the problem is in the way the case is made to small, probably this round has a few differences in chambering from maker to maker so the case manufacturers try and make one size that fits all, l have seen this in other cases eg... 303, 308 and 30-06
this cant be reversed but once fired is a perfect case for your chamber, or closer to it

the quickload info for 2219 is for 24gr max 56418psi, 98.1% case fill, @3310fps with a 24" barrel using 55gr sierra blitzkings

this problem also shows how things can go wrong looking at reloading manuals, the reason why l use quickload, with some of my cases l have no choice
quickload is not infallible or error free, it cant be because a human is putting in the data
once you have fireformed some cases and want to do an OCW test let me know and l will do a quickload extrapolation for you if you want

[marksman]

just to show you there is light at the end of the tunnel here is a post l put up about making and fireforming cases for my sons 17 ackley

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=10968

but after fireforming you will need to do another OCW but you can get a good load setup for forming your cases after a run in
a question, are swan barrels hand lapped to make the final bore spec

[Cooper]

So that means that ADI have not only given me a powder charge of 2206H that I cannot for in the case, but also a load of 2207 that is too high, hmmm.

What about 2219? Any experience with it? Cheers

I’ve used 2219 a bit. Mainly in my 204 Ruger. It’s a finer powder like the Benchmark series. It might well in your application. But I’d probably start with AR2206H and if I wasn’t happy with that I’d try a Benchmark 8208. I probably wouldn’t recommend starting with AR2207. I have used in 223 and currently use it in a 222 but been a faster burning powder probably easier to get yourself into an overcharged situation.

On a separate track I have fired 222 (Remington) Rem Mag cases here and new Sako unfired cases. Next week I check the case capacity of both.

[Am88]

Thanks for that marksman that's some good info. Does make sense about the chamber's and fit. I didn't really think about that even though on one occasion I was shooting with a mate. He ran out of ammo and wanted to borrow some of my .308 reloads in his with an aftermarket barrel, they were reduced loads with 2206h and cheapest bulk ammo I used for pigs. 4 or 5 cases out of 10 got jammed and one even had to be tapped out from the top. Even though I could load them in my factory rifle just fine. Guess the chamber was a bit tight. That's a big difference between 25.5 and 28 grains from the manual.

Thanks for that Cooper. Funny you mention that as I have seen a few Americans still shooting the magnum that have good luck with 8208.

[AZZA'S HJ47]

Thanks for that marksman that's some good info. Does make sense about the chamber's and fit. I didn't really think about that even though on one occasion I was shooting with a mate. He ran out of ammo and wanted to borrow some of my .308 reloads in his with an aftermarket barrel, they were reduced loads with 2206h and cheapest bulk ammo I used for pigs. 4 or 5 cases out of 10 got jammed and one even had to be tapped out from the top. Even though I could load them in my factory rifle just fine. Guess the chamber was a bit tight. That's a big difference between 25.5 and 28 grains from the manual.

Thanks for that Cooper. Funny you mention that as I have seen a few Americans still shooting the magnum that have good luck with 8208.

Personally hace found that 8208 powder is my first point of call for anything 22 cal related. Very consistant powder love the stuff.

[Am88]

Alot of people I have just read this morning have had good luck with it as well. Is there other programs like quickload marksman that aren't so expensive? It's not that expensive but for I probably don't do the reloading you do

[Am88]

Curiosity has the better of me, my wife's uncle uses 8208 in his .223 and I asked to grab some to do a trial. marksman if it is not too much of a pain could you recommend some charges according to quickload for 8208. I'm not sure how quickload works but if it is too much of a pain all good.

Cheers

[marksman]

very sorry Am88 but my copy doesn't include 8208

[Am88]

All good marksman. I will see if I can track down any info on the subject. There is some stuff on the Nosler forums website that could be of use. I need to go back through some magazines I think I remember sir Nick Harvey writing about it once

[marksman]

when looking at the reloading data just remember that your internal volume is around 4% less so your max load should be 4% to 5% less than suggested

[Am88]

Will do marksman, thanks all for your help. I may do some loads up with 2006h and 8208 if I can find some food info and see how we go

[niteowl]

Be very careful using different reloading manual data. They are not gathered using the same circumstances, barrels, barrel length etc.

ADI and Hodgdon will allways be the same since ADI do not do any load testing at all. It's all done by Hodgdon in the USA.

So, ADI/Hodgdon, Nosler and Hornady all use different testing proceedures and would be all different for the same bullet and powder.

The only powder testing ADI do is for a new powder batch from a previous one to ensure it's withing a few percent of the same. Powder batches many batch numbers different can have a substantial variation from an old batch.

I can't see any Nosler data for H4895 currently for the .222R Magnum online. In an old reloading manual I can see IMR 4895 listed but it isn't anywhere near the same powder, different manufacturer.

I don't have access to a .222R Magnum case so I can't test anything even though I have powder scales that are very accurate and can measure the weight of one/two granules of powder.

ADI don't list 28gr of H4895 as a compressed load so something seems to be amiss somewhere.

If it were me I'd send ADI an email. They have in the past been very helpful even though slow in replying.

Apollo, you need to be careful with making statements. Unless ADI has changed their system recently, they DO carry out pressure testing. I have been there and have had special testing done in their test lab. No, they do not do this for the public, it was a special situation and reasonably expensive ($500 / 5 rounds)
The tests provide pressures for the load that would be produced in a SAAMI spec. barrel, as they are calibrated against SAAMI "reference" rounds in the actual test barrel and at a standard temperature. The results have no bearing on what you will get in your firearm.

[bladeracer]

Be very careful using different reloading manual data. They are not gathered using the same circumstances, barrels, barrel length etc.

ADI and Hodgdon will allways be the same since ADI do not do any load testing at all. It's all done by Hodgdon in the USA.

So, ADI/Hodgdon, Nosler and Hornady all use different testing proceedures and would be all different for the same bullet and powder.

The only powder testing ADI do is for a new powder batch from a previous one to ensure it's withing a few percent of the same. Powder batches many batch numbers different can have a substantial variation from an old batch.

I can't see any Nosler data for H4895 currently for the .222R Magnum online. In an old reloading manual I can see IMR 4895 listed but it isn't anywhere near the same powder, different manufacturer.

I don't have access to a .222R Magnum case so I can't test anything even though I have powder scales that are very accurate and can measure the weight of one/two granules of powder.

ADI don't list 28gr of H4895 as a compressed load so something seems to be amiss somewhere.

If it were me I'd send ADI an email. They have in the past been very helpful even though slow in replying.

Apollo, you need to be careful with making statements. Unless ADI has changed their system recently, they DO carry out pressure testing. I have been there and have had special testing done in their test lab. No, they do not do this for the public, it was a special situation and reasonably expensive ($500 / 5 rounds)
The tests provide pressures for the load that would be produced in a SAAMI spec. barrel, as they are calibrated against SAAMI "reference" rounds in the actual test barrel and at a standard temperature. The results have no bearing on what you will get in your firearm.

They did a custom test for you but does that correlate to them having done all the load development they list, including the stuff that doesn't make sense and is clearly not from actual testing?

[niteowl]

No Mate, they have a full testing lab and many barrels all fitted with crystal transducers. You are correct to a degree, they do not do all of the cartridges listed in their manual, as not many, if any manufacturer does, they all share info with each other. The test was not a "custom" test in the real sense, a long story how and why it all came about. The test data was then analyzed in the office by the two techs involved and one, who offered some passing advice to find the anomaly in the results I had already found. My main test device was compared to theirs and found to be as accurate as their device. (Not the one that an Australian "Guru" raves about, that one has proved to EXTREMELY unreliable and inaccurate!)
As mentioned all tests are referenced back to SAAMI specs.
A side line to the tests, I had a one on one tour of the whole factory in full production, which in itself was worth the trip over from WA.

[Oldbloke]

"Unless ADI has changed their system recently, they DO carry out pressure testing."

Correct. They have shooting range/tunnel.