Differences in manuals .222mag

[Am88]

There is nothing wrong with the data, the problem is in your shed somewhere.

Anything else I can check in 'my shed' then to solve the issue? I'm not new to reloading. I may not have loaded as many as yourself. But the other 3000 or so rounds I used the ADI manual for were great. Hornady and Nosler both put 26 grains as max. Hornady actually 26.2. Just stating the data provided.

[Apollo]

Be very careful using different reloading manual data. They are not gathered using the same circumstances, barrels, barrel length etc.

ADI and Hodgdon will allways be the same since ADI do not do any load testing at all. It's all done by Hodgdon in the USA.

So, ADI/Hodgdon, Nosler and Hornady all use different testing proceedures and would be all different for the same bullet and powder.

The only powder testing ADI do is for a new powder batch from a previous one to ensure it's withing a few percent of the same. Powder batches many batch numbers different can have a substantial variation from an old batch.

I can't see any Nosler data for H4895 currently for the .222R Magnum online. In an old reloading manual I can see IMR 4895 listed but it isn't anywhere near the same powder, different manufacturer.

I don't have access to a .222R Magnum case so I can't test anything even though I have powder scales that are very accurate and can measure the weight of one/two granules of powder.

ADI don't list 28gr of H4895 as a compressed load so something seems to be amiss somewhere.

If it were me I'd send ADI an email. They have in the past been very helpful even though slow in replying.

[Apollo]

BTW... It's very easy to build a Powder Drop Tube.

[Am88]

Nosler data is stated as IMR not Hodgen yes apologies. Hornady stated H4895.

[SCJ429]

I found myself a once fired Remington case in 222 Mag. Filled to the brim took 31 grains of 2206. I could get 28.8 grain in and seat the bullet deep enough to touch most of the neck without significant compression, no drop tube just a little tapping.

[Am88]

2206 and 2206H are different animals however. I shall go and try now with one of the new Nosler cases. In case it's a brass problem

[Am88]

Same result with Nosler brass and 26 grains.

[SCJ429]

Sorry mate, I was lazy and didn't put in the H. But don't shoot me, sometimes I call 2213SC just Short Cut.

But I am trying to help. Do you know how long I looked around my shed to find that case? And then filled it up with powder to give you some information about your problem.

[Am88]

Sorry mate, I was lazy and didn't put in the H. But don't shoot me, sometimes I call 2213SC just Short Cut.

But I am trying to help. Do you know how long I looked around my shed to find that case? And then filled it up with powder to give you some information about your problem.

Yes I owe an apology wasn't trying to be an a$$ I do appreciate the help. I didn't pick it up that you said 2206. 2206H has a larger profile I believe. 2206 has a similar structure to 2207, much smaller granule. My apologies mate

[SCJ429]

All good Mate. To be clear I did use 2206H.

If the manual said 28 grains and I can get that plus some in a 222 Mag case and a 204 case. You get the same results in two different brands of cases. I can only conclude that your scales are measuring 28.8 grains as 26 grains or you have placed the measure on the balance beam two grains past where you intended. Pop around to my place and we can check your scales.

[Am88]

Just verifies scales with 4 different bullets and 3 different brands. 55gr VMAX, 87gr Speer hotcor, 135 Sierra HP and 165sst's. The sst's actually all came back .2 of a grain heavier. 5 of each bullet. I also posted a photo showing 26gr on the scales. Possibly the powder? Do you have something else to compare with a full case, I have 2207, 2209, 2208 and 2206h on hand. The tub of 2206h is the only run I have of it and only one I've ever bought.

Cheers

[SCJ429]

I have every ADI powder from 2207 to 2225. I will fill up my case with 2208 and 2209 and report back.

[SCJ429]

I looked at your photo of your scales and agree that it looks correct. I am doing my best Sherlock Holmes and can only arrive at the conclusion that your scales must be the culprit.

[Am88]

Will see what you come back with. One thing I did note is the 55gr bullets out of 5 2 came back at 54.9 and 54.8. the 87grs were good. 135grs 4 were good and 2 read 135.1 and the 165 sst's all read at 165.2gr

[SCJ429]

Not the results I expected, the case was full but nothing over the top of the neck mouth. The 08 weighed 30.2 and 09 weighed 30.4. Not sure why the 09 weighed more, I double checked it because I expected to get less in the case.

[Am88]

Oh wow. I suspect I have faulty scales then. I have 28.6gr of 2208, 28.8gr of 2209. So I had 2209 as .2gr heavier as you did. 1.6gr lower all round. That explains a lot. If you don't mind me asking what scales do you have?

[SCJ429]

I have Ohaus 10-10 balance beams, then checked on the RCBS charge master.

[SCJ429]

I don't understand why the weights of your bullets are correct but the powder is off.

[Am88]

I don't have anything lower then 55gr at the moment to check. But I say that the average of the 55gr bullets was low being 54.9. but the average of the bullets as they got heavier increased. Or the 165gr SST's all being 165.2. could the balance beam possibly as the charge gets Lower and lower read less after a certain point. As I noted the 87gr bullets all were bang on 87grs

[SCJ429]

Why don't you load 25 grains into a case and run it over a chrono. If the speed is over 3200 fps then you have your answer. If it is under 3100 fps then your scales must be correct.

[Am88]

I can arrange that when the rifle gets received. Really wondering now about how many 19.5gr loads I have made. Once again thanks for your time. Some very intriguing info on this and I will get to the bottom of it

[Apollo]

Reloading for competition I got a bit anal years ago and purchased a set of Certified Check Weights I used to use on my balance beam scales. Don't even know where they are now but I do know that my Redding Scales if I set them with a certain weight, say 25gr then wanted to weigh near 50 gr they would be out but just a touch, say 0.4gr which was way too much for me.

Then I got my GemPro 250 and gave up checking as they were always spot on or within 1 granule of powder... in my main case AR2208.

I'm still anal about powder load weights and I'm not in any hurry to weigh a couple of hundred loads for competition. My powder thrower (RCBS) and scales (Redding) are over 40 years old. My system is throw a powder weight close to what is required then weigh on the balance beam, trickle powder until it's close then place on the GemPro Digital Scales and add/remove a granule of powder or so.

Even varminting loads I do the same but +/- 1 granule is close enough. Near everything I shoot is 1/2 MOA accuracy or for competition down to 0.1 MOA... Kept me in the top 500m shooters for some years and taught a mate the same practise which has won him a few first places. Won a 300m state title with a .243W Tikka T3 so...what I'm saying is in my view accurate powder loads are a must for accuracy.

A set of accurate Check Weights are very handy, even if only used a few times a year. Also with balance beam scales, keep your pivot points spotlessly clean with something like denaturated alcohol, doesn't leave any residue deposit like say metho does.

[Am88]

I do have another set of scales but my brother in law is currently in possession of them, I might pop into the gun shop tomorrow and grab a set to compare, I havent cleaned the scales for about 6 months now, I always keep them covered and I try to be consistent as possible with the pan placement as well.

[Oldbloke]

All good no idiot questions. Yes correct cases brand spankin Sako brass. I also have a brand new bag of Nosler brass. I do not have a drop tube either to try this. Cheers

About 2 grains of powder is a lot.

I couldnt imagine ADI incorrectly packaging/labeling the powder. I would dismiss this. But would not hurt to email them as someone mentioned.

You checked scales and someone confirmed they were set ok. Sure recheck/compare but they look ok.


Seems to me the case capacity is the most likely reason. (They are new sako, correct?)
Suggest get a another case from someone (different brand) and try and fill it. Again, on the surface looks to me u have 222 cases. E mail sako?

[Am88]

Old bloke have confirmed with Nosler .222 rem mag cases. Verniered the cases to specs online and in the manual. also I have about 450 .222 rem cases. Deffinataly aint them. I think along with SCJ429 we may have discovered a scale problem after doing some comparitive tests.

Cheers

[Oldbloke]

Old bloke have confirmed with Nosler .222 rem mag cases. Verniered the cases to specs online and in the manual. also I have about 450 .222 rem cases. Deffinataly aint them. I think along with SCJ429 we may have discovered a scale problem after doing some comparitive tests.

Cheers

That really only leaves scales then. OK hope you now have it worked out. Gee about 2 grains out of wack is a lot.

[Am88]

I am going to purchase a new set in the morning. I've never had a second set of scales to confirm these things, I was always going to so now I will. May have to pull all my .222 rounds I loaded 2 weeks ago now.

We came up with a difference of 1.6 grains between SCJ and myself with him checking on 2 scales.

[Oldbloke]

We came up with a difference of 1.6 grains between SCJ and myself with him checking on 2 scales.

WOW. Thats a lot.

After zeroing mine i always put a small test weight on them. I had 2, a 164 gr and 32.7 gr small stainless steel nut and bolt i recorded the weight 1st time i used them) Their weight has never varied. A good procedure. I use at least the 32.7gr each session.

However i just now made a new one (ss screw) 14.7 gr.

I know calibration of scales always includes at least 3 or 4 weights, not just 1.

The spead of weights is not great but for me the 164 is near bullet weight for 30 cal, 32.7 between powder weight for 223 and 3006. And both smaller ones together near bullet weight of 224

[Am88]

WOW. Thats a lot.

After zeroing mine i always put a small test weight on them. I had 2, a 164 gr and 32.7 gr small stainless steel nut and bolt i recorded the weight 1st time i used them) Their weight has never varied. A good procedure. I use at least the 32.7gr each session.

However i just now made a new one (ss screw) 14.7 gr.

I know calibration of scales always includes at least 3 or 4 weights, not just 1.

The spead of weights is not great but for me the 164 is near bullet weight for 30 cal, 32.7 between powder weight for 223 and 3006. And both smaller ones together near bullet weight of 224

I unfortunately have never had any check weights, I will now but. Good idea on just using random things, nuts, washers, screws, I shall take that on board. will verify any findings tomorrow afternoon with new scales and will also re confirm with my cheapo hornady scales that came with my kit.

Cheers

[Oldbloke]

Yeh, you can buy "standard weights" but really we are checking for and "change" over time.

Stainless is probably the best option but traditionally brass is used. If i recall correctly 4 are normally used spread evenly over the capacity of the scales.