OCW test .222

[Am88]

Done some testing Saturday morning for one of my new second hand .222’s, wondering if anyone has some advise on a next step, 5 x 3 shot groups at 100m, with 18.5, 19, 19.5, 20 and 20.5 grains of 2207 behind a 50gr Sierra Soft point, bullet #1330. The gun is quite capable of shooting well as shown by the 18.5gr group. Unsure however on the next step, they all seem to have a POI very much the same, so would I be better off sticking to 19.5 or 20 grains and tuning with OBT method? or maybe loading up 3 with 21grs to see if there is any pressure signs and it keeps same POI, and tuning length of the 20.5 load? I wanted to keep it on the zippier side of things for a .222.

There were no pressure signs at 20.5 grains either it showed no flattening of the 3 primers. Powder charge is in the bottom left corner of the photo.

Cheers

[marksman]

it certainly likes the 18.5
adi max loads can be a bit conservative so l would give it a go myself as long as you do not see pressure signs
l think you will find you are heading to the next node

the rifle shoots well all the groups although differing in size clock the same
l also like how you have gone for big changes in powder (.5 gr) most people would start off with smaller weights
it takes away a lot of fuss and when you find the sweet spot you can do a smaller OCW for fine tuning
looking good to me

[Am88]

It definitely does marksman, what I forgot to mention is included in the 18.5gr group was the first shot, which was also cold bore and had a snake run through it with hoppe's a couple of times with no fouling shots, because I forgot lol. Im also fairly confident that the low left shot in the 19.5gr group I pulled.

What sought of length variation do you try with the OBT method? never tried this way of doing things. 0.02"? 0.05? etc.

[Stix]

That looks excellent Am88...

Id agree with whats been said already...

If you're so inclined, being sensible, go higher--looks like the node isnt far away at all-- give it a try...but personally, id double check around the 18.5 mark...

I only shoot in increments of .3 because from my experience with my gear, its almost impossible to tell the difference in .1 or .2 of a grain diff at 100 with a factory rifle (or the ones i have anyway).
Having said that, none of mine shoot as good as what you have there...

Im not the expert, but if i got that result, id try 2 steps in either .2 or .3 grain increments above & below the 18.5, twice each, but include 18.5 as well...
(In other words...3 shots of 18.1, 18.3, 18.5, 18.7, 18.9--then repeat it again...)

Id also load another 9 (3x3 groups) of the 18.5--shoot one group of that on a clean barrel to start the test, & once finished use another group for any minor scope adjustments...
And even if you dont need them for the testing, you're still gonna shoot out a bunny's pupil & exit out the other at 100...even if you find a better load...

And although it means nothing in comparison to your rifle, my 222 loves the lower end of charges with 2207 as well....

Good stuff going on there...contact me if you want to get rid of that rifle...

Well done...

[marksman]

It definitely does marksman, what I forgot to mention is included in the 18.5gr group was the first shot, which was also cold bore and had a snake run through it with hoppe's a couple of times with no fouling shots, because I forgot lol. Im also fairly confident that the low left shot in the 19.5gr group I pulled.

What sought of length variation do you try with the OBT method? never tried this way of doing things. 0.02"? 0.05? etc.

l really dont think you are going to need to do this but l will usually start at 20 thou jam, touch, 20thou jump, 40thou jump and usually you will have found something, l really dont think you are going to need to though
what Stix said is what l would be doing

that rifle is a keeper do not let anyone talk you into selling it to them

[SCJ429]

I like 20 and 20.5, not a lot of vertical. Depending on what pressure signs you are seeing, I assume none, I would shoot them again along with 20.7 and 20.8. Even go further if you are shooting well with no signs of pressure.

[Am88]

This is good to hear so thanks for the replies, I'm happy that other people say i got a good result means Im on the right track, never tried this OCW stuff, I will do some loads in the 18gr area at the same length, that of which is the length given by all the manuals I got info from. I mentioned keeping it zippy, as I got this rifle as a walk around to head or neck shoot Chital which I did as seen in my other post with some 50gr soft point remington factory loads. the #1330 sierra is classified as a varmint bullet but a high velocity bullet made for the .22-250 and .220 swift as seen from this snippet from the sierra site.

"This bullet is slightly “hard” at 222 or 223 Remington velocities, but are especially well suited for velocities from 22-250 and 220 Swift cartridges"

would being on the slower end of the spectrum get me into trouble here? I fully understand shot placement is key in all this. I've made more chital fall with a .222 then anything else, and truth be told it's mostly 50gr vmax's.

I don't think I'll part with this one Stix I cannot remember the gunsmiths name for the life of me now, but I bought this rifle of an elderly gentleman maybe mid 70’s now at best guess, who got it off his father when he died, his father bought the rifle new, straight to the gunsmith, it has front and rear action bedding, a beautifully light trigger, approx. 100-150 shots he said doing load testing before he died. He had 23gr of 2205H behind a 55gr Sierra boat tail #1365 for head shooting red deer.

Cheers

[Stix]

Dont listen to marksman about keeping it ( ) & feel free to offload it to me if you like...


Ok...i dont think you'll have any problems with that projectile mate...
Although i cant be absolutely sure, id say that bullet would be heavier constructed than a Vmax, & given youre head shooting they will be hitting bone which will cause them to open up anyway.
A little more penetration couldnt hurt, & they are only 22's so still really a varmint type bullet--its not like you're shooting full jacket bullets at 1800fps out of an old three'oh...
Still, id be going for brain box & avoid the whole hollow nasal area if you can...
You might get the occasional through n through on a neck shot if you dont hit bone (i try for spine if doing that), but i cant imagine them getting too far if a bullet got out...
Having said that, i can count the amount of deer ive ever shot on one hand, so the experience i speak from is not what many would call extensive at all...but ive hit all mine with either head or neck shots using either 32's or 40's out of a 204 within 170 yds and not one of them did anything other than their legs drop out from under them...

Best thing is to test them out...go wallop one in the head, & another in the neck...see how the bullet performs for you mate...and let us know would be good...

[Blr243]

I wood do more testing with the 185 and the205 loads

[bigfellascott]

My 222 wasn’t fussy either it likes the 20.5gn load in either 2207, 2206h or even the old 4198 and doesn’t seem to be fussy with 50gn projectiles either going by the testing I did - such an easy cal to get shooting great - long live the Deuce!

[Am88]

Thanks for the feedback guys, I think I will try both the 18.5 and 20.5 and to feed my curiosity will check with 21grs as long as the first shot doesn’t show pressure signs. On the bullet construction, they say it is built for higher velocities so the jacket is slightly thicker. Total honesty, the one I just shot when he moved his head is the only issue I have ever had using my .222, I believe Chital are a lot lighter built then the other breeds, in fact there is no scapula, the front leg is held on by cartilage. I usually will only take a shot when I can see two eyes if I can only see it’s head in the brush, or if it is in the open I aim base of skull.

Cheers Fella’s, I’ll see if I can do some more testing this weekend.

[SCJ429]

Jumping up by 1/2 a grain is huge for a 20 grain load. You could jump past a node with such a large increase. A 20.7 will help revalidate your 20.5 load. I would think that both 18.5 and 20.5 could both be nodes, you just shot 18.5 better. Next time 20.5 might be a smaller group.

If your keen after that you could try 20.9.

[Am88]

Jumping up by 1/2 a grain is huge for a 20 grain load. You could jump past a node with such a large increase. A 20.7 will help revalidate your 20.5 load. I would think that both 18.5 and 20.5 could both be nodes, you just shot 18.5 better. Next time 20.5 might be a smaller group.

If your keen after that you could try 20.9.

Sounds good to me mate I got 2 scales to verify now so .2 grain should not be a problem.

[AZZA'S HJ47]

Ill be the instigator here try some 8208 works a treat in my 222 and 223.

You do seem to have had some great sucess with the 2207 though

[Stix]

I like 20 and 20.5, not a lot of vertical. Depending on what pressure signs you are seeing, I assume none, I would shoot them again along with 20.7 and 20.8. Even go further if you are shooting well with no signs of pressure.

So you dont like the one hole group that has the least vertical...?
Im curious why you prefer those groups...?

[SCJ429]

They are a whole heap faster than 18 grains, the 222 is only a small case and you need every bit of speed you can get. Also 21.5 fills the case better. When shooting small samples, three shots, you can make loads look better than others. If you reshoot either load, I am betting that they end up around the same size in aggregate.

You can always go back to 18.5 if 21.5 does not work out, I am betting that 21.5 is in the node and a bit of extra powder, 21.7, might be pretty handy too.

[marksman]

having a look at your load in quickload shows the
18.5gr load as a light load doing 2987fps @36119psi and 84,3% fill
21gr is as high as l would go doing 3310fps @51586psi and 95.7% fill

the max psi for this round is 53664psi

lMHO the 18.5gr is a safe load but l wouldn't go down any further and the 21gr is just under as high as l would go

l think you are just about at the next node and should try up to 21gr but as SCJ429 has said maybe do an OCW in smaller increments to 21gr

your 20.5gr group is a good group and is doing 3248fps @48061psi with a 93.4 fill

worth a bit more testing

[Am88]

Thanks for that marksman, I will do some more loads up to try. 18.5 grs is actually quicker then I thought according to your program. I was expecting a lower speed. Thanks all for the input.

[SCJ429]

having a look at your load in quickload shows the
18.5gr load as a light load doing 2987fps @36119psi and 84,3% fill
21gr is as high as l would go doing 3310fps @51586psi and 95.7% fill

the max psi for this round is 53664psi

lMHO the 18.5gr is a safe load but l wouldn't go down any further and the 21gr is just under as high as l would go

l think you are just about at the next node and should try up to 21gr but as SCJ429 has said maybe do an OCW in smaller increments to 21gr

your 20.5gr group is a good group and is doing 3248fps @48061psi with a 93.4 fill

worth a bit more testing

Nice work MM, I might have to get myself a Quickload suite. What does it say for 47 grains of 2209 behind a 168 grain Berger VLD in a 7mm08?

[Am88]

Would love a 7mm one day, either 7mm-08 or 7mm Rem Mag. would be nice too.

[SCJ429]

What about the 7mm RUM?

The 7mm08 is not mine. Just working on a load for a friend. I use a 7mm Win Mag, lots of fun.

[Am88]

I remember reading about barrel life on the RUM being significantly less, also I'm not a long range hunter and I'd still like to keep it a bit tamer on recoil, a 7mm RUM delivers 25% for energy at 300 yards I just read, sounds like something I would not enjoy shooting too much

Edit: My alopogies, I read that about the .300 RUM and barrel life, I can imagine it would be the same with the 7mm too however.

[Stix]

[
Nice work MM, I might have to get myself a Quickload suite. What does it say for 47 grains of 2209 behind a 168 grain Berger VLD in a 7mm08?

It says to block your ears...!!...

I did some 95% to just compressed loads with a 120 vmax & 2209 once....didnt seem too bad from behind the butt...
But people at the range were complaining about the noise & one monkey was jumping around like the whole place was going to blow up...

T'was pretty loud for a 7-08 though...

[marksman]

"Nice work MM, I might have to get myself a Quickload suite. What does it say for 47 grains of 2209 behind a 168 grain Berger VLD in a 7mm08?"

overloaded
114.2% fill, 2792fps, 70167psi
quickload is good to get a good guess but its not written in stone, you still need to real world test
the data l put in is an average, to have a better idea the load needs to be tweaked using better data and a chrony
TBH l think it is right down your alley from what l have seen from you in the past

45gr of 2209 is as far as l would go but you may find pressure at that because the extrapolation is an average
at 45gr for a 24" barrel there is 109.3% fill, 2665fps @ 59723psi with the 168 berger hunting vld #28501

[SCJ429]

Thanks for that, the ADI data is 44.2 grains doing 2550 fps which is a bit slow. I will push it a bit, 47 grain is not compressed but I will see what the rifle likes. I was hoping to get to 2700 fps but I don't want to loosen the primer pockets after one firing.

I like loud Stix, and if I can put off the bloke next to me, even better.

[Stix]

Lol scj...
When the guy next to me mentioned i was getting progressively louder with a questionable/curious tone (as if to ask politely if i was aware of what i had loaded), i told him that group he just heard was at about 100%, & that the next load are compressed...
To which he pulled a face somewhat similar to this-- --,quickly finished his group, packed up his gear & moved to another bench...

Ill send you mine so you can do two 7-08 rifle loads at once... ...or i can send you my brass as i think the necks are just a cock hair too thick & need a skim...(its 308 brass)...

My rifle seemed to deal with the big loads ok...primers were fine & no stiff bolt etc...but weighing less than 3kg you were well aware of having shot a rifle off the bench & it did hammer the brass a good bit...so i went back to sissy loads with 2208.

Part of me is curious to know how naughty i was according to this quickload bizo, but dont think i want the world to see it...
It was an interesting experiment for me being mostly a small 22 cal shooter & as that was the hottest ive ever pushed a rifle...

[SCJ429]

I like to see what a case can do, no point having the motor idling when you are trying to win a race. I am using Lapua 7mm08 brass, I would be more confident if I had 308 Palmer brass with small rifle primers. I don't want to push 70,000 psi but did want to try for speeds that a 308 can push a 168 bullet. Almost no point having a BC advantage if I shoot them at 2550 fps. I will post the results in another thread rather than continuing to hijack 222s thread.

[Am88]

no point having the motor idling when you are trying to win a race.

I like that

[Am88]

So didn't get alot of time but this afternoon tested 20.5gr, 20.7gr and 20.9gr. No primer flattening at 20.9gr either. Tested 4 of each. 20.5gr pretty much came out the same so didn't bother posting. POI doesn't seem to be changing which is good. I also have no doubt in my mind I pulled 1 if not 2 shots on the 20.7 group. Also I forgot my bloody sand bags so was a very poor rest setup I used was a bit unsteady so no doubt it would improve. Also threw in a pic if the rifle, my A1 with Doctor 6x42 Classic. Loving it.

[Stix]

Looks good AM...

How big are those squares/grid graduations on the target...?

More to come...?