30-30 subsonic info

[CRF]

G'day,

You may laugh but my 30-30 is my varmint gun these days. I'll buy a 223 for the young fella when he's old enough but for the time being I don't do enough to justify it.

Anyhow, the inlaws and their neighbors are in the semi rural space (5-10 acre blocks) and have been having fox trouble. The inlaws and surrounding neighbors are happy for me to try and get the bugger but in the interest of safety and not having loud guns going off around houses I'd like to try a subsonic load for the old girl.

Any suggestions on projectiles or loads to try? I'll probably buy some trail boss but haven't given it more thought than that.

Cheers

[Gamerancher]

8 to 10 grains of Trailboss works well with cast bullets. It'll still make a racket though.

[CRF]

8 to 10 grains of Trailboss works well with cast bullets. It'll still make a racket though.

I have no experience with subsonic centrefires, I was thinking without breaking the sound barrier it'd be closer to a rimfire?

[bladeracer]

[quote="Gamerancher"8 to 10 grains of Trailboss works well with cast bullets. It'll still make a racket though.[/quote

I have no experience with subsonic centrefires, I was thinking without breaking the sound barrier it'd be closer to a rimfire?

If you use a 40gn bullet it will be closer to a .22LR subsonic, but a 100gn bullet burns a lot more powder to get up to 1100fps, and that is going to make it a lot louder.

[bladeracer]

8 to 10 grains of Trailboss works well with cast bullets. It'll still make a racket though.

8-10gn is still going to be supersonic with lighter bullets though. Try about 5-6gns with a light bullet, say 100-120gn.

[Gamerancher]

" I was thinking without breaking the sound barrier it'd be closer to a rimfire?"
Yeah, ....nah. The amount of powder burnt to move the .30 cal bullet still goes bang a lot louder than a .22. Sub-sonic just means the sound gets there faster than the bullet does, while it will be quieter, it won't go unnoticed. Sub-sonic through a sound moderator is a different matter.
If they are 5 - 10 acre blocks and you have no neighbours that are going to be offended, just use a .22.

[CRF]

It doesn't have to be unnoticed, I just didn't want to rattle off a 30-06 around peoples houses is all!

[Gamerancher]

Fair enough, are you using a .30-30 or a .30-'06? You have referred to both.

[CRF]

30-30,

Just mentioned the 30-06 to emphasize loud noises!

[Gamerancher]

No worries, just checking.
Low velocity loads are always easier to achieve with heavier bullets, trying to slow down light-for-calibre bullets usually results in much reduced powder loadings which can have other problems. I down-loaded a .30-30 for my son to use for competition, mainly to reduce recoil, but it also becomes a lot quieter in the process. The lowest, usable, accurate load I tried was 8 grains of trailboss behind a cast 170 grain bullet. However I found 10 grains to be a better load in the '94 Winchester he was using.
This load was surprisingly accurate and could reach out to our 200m target using the standard barrel sights. I've taken him hunting with this rifle and ammo and he has taken goats with it no worries. While not sub-sonic, the report is very much reduced compared to factory or high velocity loadings.

[bladeracer]

30-30,

Just mentioned the 30-06 to emphasize loud noises!

I use a 123gn at 1700fps in .30-06, very pleasant and accurate.

[Oldbloke]

Only 1 fox? All the rooting around developing a load. No way. Borrow a 22 mag or what ever.

If it was a regular thing id say look at trail boss.

[bladeracer]

Only 1 fox? All the rooting around developing a load. No way. Borrow a 22 mag or what ever.

If it was a regular thing id say look at trail boss.

I would just use a .22LR unless you can't get closer than 50m.

[flutch]

From what I've read/seen/discussed moving any lump of lead from a large or even moderately large cartridge still creates a lot of Register from the gun, typically heavier projectile are used than normal, hence things like 338 spectre, to keep velocities down below the speed of sound, lighter pills aren't usually an option due to the fact that the brass needs to have a certain amount of the case occupied by both powder and projectile, in most cases where people toy with these things suppressors aren't forbidden fruit so their sole aim is to keep the round itself below the sound barrier and defeat the register of the gun itself with the muzzle device.

I would be looking on the heavy side, if it is a lever gun maybe look into single loading some 220 grain projies, into ya brass and see what the yanks suggest for Burny bang powder and charges

[Oldbloke]

I would just use a .22LR unless you can't get closer than 50m.

Yep, that would be good too.

[in2anity]

Marlin or Winnie? Or something else?

[duncan61]

160 GR. CAST Lead Flat Nose Trail Boss .308" 2.485" 6.5 grain 997 fps 20500 cup 9.0 grain 1195 fps 29100 cup

ADI load data good luck with it

[bladeracer]

One catch with Trailboss is that it only comes in 1.5kg bottles, that's over 22,000 grains of powder. Even if you load 100 10gn loads, you still have 21,000gn of powder left - it goes a long way.

But that's also its advantage, as Trailboss is very addictive, you'll soon be experimenting with it in everything, and buying more firearms just to experiment more

[in2anity]

One catch with Trailboss is that it only comes in 1.5kg bottles, that's over 22,000 grains of powder. Even if you load 100 10gn loads, you still have 21,000gn of powder left - it goes a long way.

But that's also its advantage, as Trailboss is very addictive, you'll soon be experimenting with it in everything, and buying more firearms just to experiment more

That's a very good point - and an overly bulky container. Seems a bit wastful for a single fox. Still, my bet is you'll experiment into other cartridges with the leftovers My bud and I are currently practising with 9gr of TB in a 204 - like shooting a 22lr but miles more accurate at 100m. Very fun powder indeed.

IMO use TB in your 223 under a light pill and you'll have your fox (without the racket) - not nearly the rainbow either (compared with slower 30cal), so inherently easier to use... at 5-10acre block distances, point and zap.

Nevetheless if you're intent on ye olde 30-30, a reduced charge of AR2206H under around a 170gr pill is a fun load and can be quite accurate; just try it under any old 30/30 pill you have laying around and I'm sure you'll have a potent enough little load.... the old 60-70% rule; do some testing.

[CRF]

Thanks for the suggestions,

Not really interested in buying a 22 or 223 for it.

Having a bit of TB to play around with would be good anyway. I'll look into some cast bullets and go from there. Cheers.

[bladeracer]

Thanks for the suggestions,

Not really interested in buying a 22 or 223 for it.

Having a bit of TB to play around with would be good anyway. I'll look into some cast bullets and go from there. Cheers.

Have you got a shotgun?
I would just borrow something for the job if you aren't interested in owning another rifle, although not owning a .22LR is a real shame I reckon. What region are you in?

Working with cast bullets is often more complicated than jacketed bullets, I would suggest you start with ".303" bullets around .310" to .312", you can always size them down if you need to later.
If you're just going to buy them I've had very good results with Berry's Copper-Plated and their Hardcast bullets in a variety of cartridges, and I find plated bullets don't need be as far over-size as unplayed bullets. Their CP bullets are virtually as accurate as jacketed bullets for me. Hard-cast bullets will pencil through a fox like an FMJ bullet, so you want something you can place precisely.

You could look at jacketed pistol bullets, the Hornady 100gn XTP shoots great in .303/7.62x54R from subsonic to blistering speeds, but I haven't tried them in my .30-30 yet. Hornady do an 86gn RN soft-point .308" bullet I definitely want to try though.
https://www.rebelgunworks.com.au/collec ... s-100-pack

[Stoney]

Hornady now make subsonic .30 cal bullets designed to expand at low velocity's Talk about back to the future.

[Oldbloke]

OP buys the powder ($130) and mould ($50) works out how to cast, maybe buy some basic reloading gear, works up a load.

For 1 or 2 foxes......just buy or borrow a Single Barrel 12 guage and a box of BBs or a 22lr and a few boxes of ammo.

The fox will die of old age.

[CRF]

OP buys the powder ($130) and mould ($50) works out how to cast, maybe buy some basic reloading gear, works up a load.

For 1 or 2 foxes......just buy or borrow a Single Barrel 12 guage and a box of BBs or a 22lr and a few boxes of ammo.

The fox will die of old age.

These types of replies remind me why I don't use social media.

[CRF]

OP buys the powder ($130) and mould ($50) works out how to cast, maybe buy some basic reloading gear, works up a load.

For 1 or 2 foxes......just buy or borrow a Single Barrel 12 guage and a box of BBs or a 22lr and a few boxes of ammo.

The fox will die of old age.

These types of replies remind me why I don't use social media.

[bladeracer]

[quote="Oldbloke"OP buys the powder ($130) and mould ($50) works out how to cast, maybe buy some basic reloading gear, works up a load.

For 1 or 2 foxes......just buy or borrow a Single Barrel 12 guage and a box of BBs or a 22lr and a few boxes of ammo.

The fox will die of old age. [/quote

These types of replies remind me why I don't use social media.

His people skills are poor, but I think he means well. If you had explained that you want to use this fox effort as a bit of low-velocity load experimentation in your .30-30 we wouldn't'd be making these suggestions. Your posts come across more as if you just want an expedient way to deal with Mr fox so you can get back to doing other things, and simply using your .30-30, or borrowing a firearm you feel would be more appropriate, or asking somebody else to deal with him, would certainly be at the top of the "sensible options" list. Even if the property is a half-acre block, nobody nearby is going to be bothered by a few rounds of .30-30 when they've been made aware beforehand what is happening, and are happy to have the problem dealt with.

You didn't respond when asked about the firearm. I could probably do a quick test in my '81 Win94 as I plan to work up a variety of reduced loads for the cartridge anyway, and a quick test would give me baseline data for that. It may also translate to your own rifle, though that's never a given. I have bullets from I think 90gn to 240gn, but I'd be surprised if the real heavies were viable in the lever action due to their length (the Woodleigh 240gn is blunt but still almost 1.5-inches long).

I also bought hundreds of the 100gn RN Plinkers when they were crazy cheap https://www.rebelgunworks.com.au/collec ... oint-100pk and have never gotten around to testing their lower expansion threshold, and I would love to get that done.

I also have several moulds from .309" to .314" and it only takes minutes with a torch to throw some soft lead bullets for test shooting.

I've been sick for a while, but improving,. While greatly restricted still in what I can do around the farm, a few hours in the sun shooting paper sounds like exactly what the doctor ordered

[Oldbloke]

"His people skills are poor, but I think he means well"

Well thanks......I do mean well.

A lot of time and cost for 1 or 2 foxes. Much easier to borrow a 12ag or 22lr .

If you look around you could buy a used SB 12g for $200 and your in business.

But if you want to get into casting,,,,go for it.

[bladeracer]

G'day,

You may laugh but my 30-30 is my varmint gun these days. I'll buy a 223 for the young fella when he's old enough but for the time being I don't do enough to justify it.

Anyhow, the inlaws and their neighbors are in the semi rural space (5-10 acre blocks) and have been having fox trouble. The inlaws and surrounding neighbors are happy for me to try and get the bugger but in the interest of safety and not having loud guns going off around houses I'd like to try a subsonic load for the old girl.

Any suggestions on projectiles or loads to try? I'll probably buy some trail boss but haven't given it more thought than that.

Cheers

Just to clarify, by "semi rural space" are you describing the situation or is the area actually zoned as Rural?

[Oldbloke]

Here you go. $130. Plus transfer costs.

Screenshot_20200305-100103_Chrome.jpg (380.93 KiB) Viewed 7218 times

Not trying to be smart but a simple solution. But in wangaratta. And your on a very small block so i think safer option.

[bladeracer]

I bashed together five rounds of 6gn of Trailboss under the 150gn Berry's and 100gn Plinker just to get a baseline load velocity so I can work up or down to find 1080fps.