30-30 subsonic info

[in2anity]

One catch with Trailboss is that it only comes in 1.5kg bottles, that's over 22,000 grains of powder. Even if you load 100 10gn loads, you still have 21,000gn of powder left - it goes a long way.

But that's also its advantage, as Trailboss is very addictive, you'll soon be experimenting with it in everything, and buying more firearms just to experiment more

That's a very good point - and an overly bulky container. Seems a bit wastful for a single fox. Still, my bet is you'll experiment into other cartridges with the leftovers My bud and I are currently practising with 9gr of TB in a 204 - like shooting a 22lr but miles more accurate at 100m. Very fun powder indeed.

IMO use TB in your 223 under a light pill and you'll have your fox (without the racket) - not nearly the rainbow either (compared with slower 30cal), so inherently easier to use... at 5-10acre block distances, point and zap.

Nevetheless if you're intent on ye olde 30-30, a reduced charge of AR2206H under around a 170gr pill is a fun load and can be quite accurate; just try it under any old 30/30 pill you have laying around and I'm sure you'll have a potent enough little load.... the old 60-70% rule; do some testing.

[CRF]

Thanks for the suggestions,

Not really interested in buying a 22 or 223 for it.

Having a bit of TB to play around with would be good anyway. I'll look into some cast bullets and go from there. Cheers.

[bladeracer]

Thanks for the suggestions,

Not really interested in buying a 22 or 223 for it.

Having a bit of TB to play around with would be good anyway. I'll look into some cast bullets and go from there. Cheers.

Have you got a shotgun?
I would just borrow something for the job if you aren't interested in owning another rifle, although not owning a .22LR is a real shame I reckon. What region are you in?

Working with cast bullets is often more complicated than jacketed bullets, I would suggest you start with ".303" bullets around .310" to .312", you can always size them down if you need to later.
If you're just going to buy them I've had very good results with Berry's Copper-Plated and their Hardcast bullets in a variety of cartridges, and I find plated bullets don't need be as far over-size as unplayed bullets. Their CP bullets are virtually as accurate as jacketed bullets for me. Hard-cast bullets will pencil through a fox like an FMJ bullet, so you want something you can place precisely.

You could look at jacketed pistol bullets, the Hornady 100gn XTP shoots great in .303/7.62x54R from subsonic to blistering speeds, but I haven't tried them in my .30-30 yet. Hornady do an 86gn RN soft-point .308" bullet I definitely want to try though.
https://www.rebelgunworks.com.au/collec ... s-100-pack

[Stoney]

Hornady now make subsonic .30 cal bullets designed to expand at low velocity's Talk about back to the future.

[Oldbloke]

OP buys the powder ($130) and mould ($50) works out how to cast, maybe buy some basic reloading gear, works up a load.

For 1 or 2 foxes......just buy or borrow a Single Barrel 12 guage and a box of BBs or a 22lr and a few boxes of ammo.

The fox will die of old age.

[CRF]

OP buys the powder ($130) and mould ($50) works out how to cast, maybe buy some basic reloading gear, works up a load.

For 1 or 2 foxes......just buy or borrow a Single Barrel 12 guage and a box of BBs or a 22lr and a few boxes of ammo.

The fox will die of old age.

These types of replies remind me why I don't use social media.

[CRF]

OP buys the powder ($130) and mould ($50) works out how to cast, maybe buy some basic reloading gear, works up a load.

For 1 or 2 foxes......just buy or borrow a Single Barrel 12 guage and a box of BBs or a 22lr and a few boxes of ammo.

The fox will die of old age.

These types of replies remind me why I don't use social media.

[bladeracer]

[quote="Oldbloke"OP buys the powder ($130) and mould ($50) works out how to cast, maybe buy some basic reloading gear, works up a load.

For 1 or 2 foxes......just buy or borrow a Single Barrel 12 guage and a box of BBs or a 22lr and a few boxes of ammo.

The fox will die of old age. [/quote

These types of replies remind me why I don't use social media.

His people skills are poor, but I think he means well. If you had explained that you want to use this fox effort as a bit of low-velocity load experimentation in your .30-30 we wouldn't'd be making these suggestions. Your posts come across more as if you just want an expedient way to deal with Mr fox so you can get back to doing other things, and simply using your .30-30, or borrowing a firearm you feel would be more appropriate, or asking somebody else to deal with him, would certainly be at the top of the "sensible options" list. Even if the property is a half-acre block, nobody nearby is going to be bothered by a few rounds of .30-30 when they've been made aware beforehand what is happening, and are happy to have the problem dealt with.

You didn't respond when asked about the firearm. I could probably do a quick test in my '81 Win94 as I plan to work up a variety of reduced loads for the cartridge anyway, and a quick test would give me baseline data for that. It may also translate to your own rifle, though that's never a given. I have bullets from I think 90gn to 240gn, but I'd be surprised if the real heavies were viable in the lever action due to their length (the Woodleigh 240gn is blunt but still almost 1.5-inches long).

I also bought hundreds of the 100gn RN Plinkers when they were crazy cheap https://www.rebelgunworks.com.au/collec ... oint-100pk and have never gotten around to testing their lower expansion threshold, and I would love to get that done.

I also have several moulds from .309" to .314" and it only takes minutes with a torch to throw some soft lead bullets for test shooting.

I've been sick for a while, but improving,. While greatly restricted still in what I can do around the farm, a few hours in the sun shooting paper sounds like exactly what the doctor ordered

[Oldbloke]

"His people skills are poor, but I think he means well"

Well thanks......I do mean well.

A lot of time and cost for 1 or 2 foxes. Much easier to borrow a 12ag or 22lr .

If you look around you could buy a used SB 12g for $200 and your in business.

But if you want to get into casting,,,,go for it.

[bladeracer]

G'day,

You may laugh but my 30-30 is my varmint gun these days. I'll buy a 223 for the young fella when he's old enough but for the time being I don't do enough to justify it.

Anyhow, the inlaws and their neighbors are in the semi rural space (5-10 acre blocks) and have been having fox trouble. The inlaws and surrounding neighbors are happy for me to try and get the bugger but in the interest of safety and not having loud guns going off around houses I'd like to try a subsonic load for the old girl.

Any suggestions on projectiles or loads to try? I'll probably buy some trail boss but haven't given it more thought than that.

Cheers

Just to clarify, by "semi rural space" are you describing the situation or is the area actually zoned as Rural?

[Oldbloke]

Here you go. $130. Plus transfer costs.

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Not trying to be smart but a simple solution. But in wangaratta. And your on a very small block so i think safer option.

[bladeracer]

I bashed together five rounds of 6gn of Trailboss under the 150gn Berry's and 100gn Plinker just to get a baseline load velocity so I can work up or down to find 1080fps.

[duncan61]

Good stuff blade now I am going outside to set up my reloading gear.Subsonic .243 here I come

[bladeracer]

Good stuff blade now I am going outside to set up my reloading gear.Subsonic .243 here I come

I wandered up to test those rounds...and it started raining, so I came back.
I wanted to shoot them into my rubber to recover the bullets to see if they're deforming, but it's more important to just get a velocity baseline, so I start setting the chrono up here to shoot into a dead tree...only to find both sensor ports packed with wasp mud...bloody hell

Got them cleaned out and reassembling the unit now, hopefully I'll still get some numbers today.

[bladeracer]

Okay, I managed a single chrono reading of 987fps with the 100gn Plinker on 6gn of Trailboss before the sun ducked below the horizon - it's a start

I shot them into a dead tree outside my office at about 20m offhand. As I have no idea of the drop from these subsonic loads, I kept it close. The Plinkers would be travelling faster so should drop less. At 20m they fell about 185mm low and 25mm right, although I had the sun glaring off the right side of the front sight giving several front sights to choose from
The 150gn Berry's dropped about 220mm (I lifted my aim to the top piece of tape) and about 20mm left.

Both "groups" are better than I'd expected under the conditions I shot them in, so I'll load some more up across a range of 6gn to about 10gn, get some accurate velocity data, then see what I can get the best groups out of.

Recoil and report are certainly in the realm of subsonic .22LR.

[bladeracer]

Took advantage of a bit of sun just now, loading one round with different charges and shooting over the chrono.
I think the 100gn Plinker offers at least some chance of deformation, the Berry's CP Hardcast is unlikely to deform at all at these velocities, so I'll concentrate on the 100gn first. The Berry's is a little cheaper, and with a much better BC, it would be a better choice I think for all-round plinking even out to longer ranges.

6gn of Trailboss gave me 987fps yesterday.
7.3gn just gave me 1125fps, so I went and loaded it with 7gn, which gave me 967fps (yes, less than the 6gn did yesterday), then 7.2gn gave me 1114fps, and 7.1gn gave me 1044fps.

So, I'll load some 7.1gn loads to get average velocities and ES numbers, and see how it groups out to 50m.

The 1125fps load was certainly supersonic, but the 1114fps load didn't noticeably crack, and the 1044fps load definitely did not.

I fired them into the dirt so I'll get the metal detector and dig the bullets up now.

[bladeracer]

I didn't feel well enough to go right down the paddock, or to shoot optimal groups so I just fired ten rounds at 25m leaning on the fence.

I calculated that I need to lift the rear sight 4.3mm to zero at 50m, so I adjusted the Lyman peep last night. I fired three rounds just to confirm zero, then fired ten to get a group. I wanted to be about 45mm high at 25m for a 50m zero so that was pretty close. The three rounds were in a neat 34mm triangle. I dropped another ten on top to cover 55mm, which I'm pretty happy with for a 35-cent round.

I'll have to go up and shoot them at 50m off the bench though to see what they're really capable of, but I think 50m foxes are doable already.

I took some chisels and managed to recover a bullet from the tree. It's a pine that's been dead since a lightning strike in 2014 blew most of the tree away, leaving just a 5m high stump for the possums to play on. The outer is rotten pulp to about 80mm deep, including the thick bark, then the inner part is still pretty solid timber - just like chiseling through a rough-sawn pine 90x90mm post. I finally found one of the thirteen bullets after chiseling in 175mm, amazing I reckon. I honestly expected to find it within the first 100mm.

Surprisingly little deformation though, so I don't think it's pure lead. Which means it offers no real advantage over the slightly cheaper Berry's 150gn, which I think might be a little more accurate.

But, for the OP, bludge a couple tablespoons of Trailboss off somebody, get a box of bullets for $30, and go fix up that fox

[bladeracer]

I did some testing just now with the 150gn Berry's Copper-Plated FN.
10.1gn of TB gave me 955fps but I forgot to crimp that one so it may have gone higher with a crimp.
11gn gave me 1156fps, 10.6gn gave me 1038fps.
I loaded up 25rds of these and wandered up the hill.

I fired five of the 100gn Plinker first, four of them dropping into 58mm, the fifth was way off, probably because I was struggling to see the diamond through the grass.

20200309_174730b.jpg (1.05 MiB) Viewed 2620 times

Then I fired five of the 150gn 10.6gn loads into 76mm, with four of them in 31mm.
I thought I could do better if I could see the 50mm black aiming point, so I made a red diamond of 70mm.
At this point I switched to the loads in brand new unsized brass, and a few of these definitely left a crack rolling down the valley. In my rifle the 10.6gn load may be right on the edge of subsonic, 10.5gn might be a safer bet to avoid the occasional cracks. These are burning more than ten times the volume of powder in a .22LR round, and are significantly more of a dull boom, but not at all unpleasant on the ear.
Five rounds of the 150gn gave me a group of 84mm tall but only 45mm wide, but I was still struggling to clearly see the target (why I really prefer to mount a scope for load development).

So I made a fresh 85mm aim point in black with a white centre, and put eight rounds into a group 82mm tall by 39mm wide.

20200309_175519b.jpg (823.92 KiB) Viewed 2620 times

I think sub-50mm 50m groups with both of these loads is certainly doable with iron sights, and some practice - definitely capable of taking a fox cleanly at 50m. With a scope I'd be surprised if 30mm groups were at all difficult. I noticed the front siight is badly rounded on the top right corner, causing reflection even after painting it black. I'll have to file it back to square for a consistent sight picture. And the peep is too big for precision shooting, more of a ghost ring for medium game. I should've grabbed the smaller aperture out of one of my Williams' sights. I also noticed that the front sight is mounted out of plumb with the action, sitting almost at one-o'clock. I thought the barrel might've come loose, but a straightedge on the rear sight dovetail sits level.

With zero load development (I was only testing to find the velocity window) I'm impressed with both of these very cheap bullets, and the rifle.

I loaded the 150gn to 2.542" and the 100gn to 2.442", and both were crimped. Both bullets feed flawlessly through the action.

[bladeracer]

For what it's worth, Rose was at the other block, 1500m down the valley with the cows, she heard nothing of the 30 rounds I fired. I was shooting SSW and she was SSE of me.

[in2anity]

For what it's worth, Rose was at the other block, 1500m down the valley with the cows, she heard nothing of the 30 rounds I fired. I was shooting SSW and she was SSE of me.

Rose being your better half?

[bladeracer]

[quote="bladeracer"For what it's worth, Rose was at the other block, 1500m down the valley with the cows, she heard nothing of the 30 rounds I fired. I was shooting SSW and she was SSE of me.[/quote

Rose being your better half?

Much more than half

[Gamerancher]

Thanks for going to the trouble of doing all of that work Blade, just to show that the load I suggested, ( 10gr ), worked. ( which I already knew from firing thousands of rounds of it )

[bladeracer]

Thanks for going to the trouble of doing all of that work Blade, just to show that the load I suggested, ( 10gr ), worked. ( which I already knew from firing thousands of rounds of it )

Thanks GR
You suggested 10gn behind "cast bullets" though, I haven't tried with cast yet, and you didn't specify a bullet weight. As I said, I didn't do any load development yet. My goal was not for something that simply "works", as any bullet on almost any charge will work. I was trying to find the charge weight that would stay subsonic, as that is what the OP needed, and also what I wanted. Both of these loads are subsonic, in my rifle, but the lighter bullet has less "boom" to it due to the much lower powder volume. You did pop back in later to mention that the load you suggested would certainly not be subsonic.

I stuck with jacketed bullets as I can't see any value for the OP messing about with commercial cast bullets, or casting his own, just to deal with one fox. Cast is my own preference though, so further testing will be with cast pure lead in both a very light 90gn bullet, and a heavy one for pounding steel, both still subsonic. Does your Win94 handle 200gn or 220gn cast bullets okay? I also want to see what the rifle can do with target bullets for outright accuracy as it shows some potential I think, and what sort of velocities can be made with light varmint bullets as well. But I'll be using the scope for further testing.

I think anybody now searching for ".30-30 subsonic info" should be confident of finding some useful starting data.