To neck size only?

[in2anity]

Wow there’s some bollocks in this thread which I’m finding hard to comprehend. Overwhelming service rifle shooters in Sydney neck size, then bump or FLS when the round becomes hard to chamber, and that’s on some pretty ancient old service rifles with very liberal headspace... but also state of the art rifles. Everyone only fls’ when your brass is telling you so. And it’s mostly driven by brass preservation. 12 reloads in an SMLE vs 5

[Bill]

wheres the bollocks in2anity that you dont comphrehend ? Like I said for years I thought tight bolt on the way down and up was a good thing

in2anity did you watch either video, esp the 2nd 1 ??

I now set my FLS dies up to give the whole body just the slightest bump so that there is zero resistance closing the bolt, works for me and I dont mind prepping brass but I only shoot 15-20 times a year.

[sungazer]

Well the Australian F class team won the world championships in Canada. Then the TR Team won the World Championships in NZ last year. We have the individual World Champion in F open and TR. So why ask what the Americans do? Ask what the winners do.

[in2anity]

wheres the bollocks in2anity that you dont comphrehend ? Like I said for years I thought tight bolt on the way down and up was a good thing

in2anity did you watch either video, esp the 2nd 1 ??

I now set my FLS dies up to give the whole body just the slightest bump so that there is zero resistance closing the bolt, works for me and I dont mind prepping brass but I only shoot 15-20 times a year.

Notice they are all benchrest or f-class shooters, the only place where true mechanical accuracy is approached. Shoot fullbore, or service, or field positional, or metallic silhouette, and the poofteenth accuracy gains are essentially lost. Yet your brass life is greatly extended, more than doubled in some guns. Not to mention the lack of lubing means the cleaning step is avoided. 4/5 reloads I can turn my brass around in a fraction of the time compared with bumping/FLSing. And that’s a big factor when you’re competing regularly. I’d rather be spending my spare time drilling to improve my technique.

[Bill]

yeah I get that the cleaning process is avoided in2anity, something I actually enjoying doing, I cleaned and prepped 200 once fired cases Grendel cases last week infront of the tele

[Bill]

Well the Australian F class team won the world championships in Canada. Then the TR Team won the World Championships in NZ last year. We have the individual World Champion in F open and TR. So why ask what the Americans do? Ask what the winners do.

I'll ask an old mate who shoots with a few long range boyz what they do next time I see him

[in2anity]

yeah I get that the cleaning process is avoided in2anity, something I actually enjoying doing, I cleaned and prepped 200 once fired cases Grendel cases last week infront of the tele

Yeah well the novelty wears off, especially when your necks start splitting and you gotta fork out the cash.

[marksman]

here is a bit of an explanation about why you would FLS although if you dont remove your extractor or firing pin you will not get a proper feel and lMHO are really guessing and not getting a really precise measurement, you need no resistance at all
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnsuVBwbNJo&t=444s

and l found the old thread l put up viewtopic.php?f=13&t=11560

as l said earlier this has nothing to do with being more reliable when feeding cases it is about more consistency and getting your projectile in line with the bore exactly the same every time

[Sergeant Hartman]

As i said, this will confused the poor guy and open a can of worms.

On the other hand you can get forster bump bushing neck sizing dies

[marksman]

you need to watch the posted vids ziad
these guys are saying not to neck size or bump shoulders

[Gamerancher]

Bill, I watched your videos, not going to doubt what those fellas do, I was questioning the statement you made, " every single National Champion", there are more events than just F-class and benchrest. ( Which is what the sample of shooters are all about )
The events I shoot in are worlds apart from those and like I said, a lot of the National Champions, ( we are talking U.S.A here ) , in these events don't F.L.S.
Be very careful with generalisations.

[Bill]

Im glad you took the time to watch the video gamerancher, like i said none of use are too old to learn new ways

[Gamerancher]

For what it's worth, I do a bit of both, depending on which rifle, what I'm loading for, competition or hunting, which cases, what they did last, what works best in a particular rifle/barrel, etc.etc.... There 'ain't no hard and fast rules when it comes to the finer points of reloading.
As for the argument that full length sizing reduces the lifespan of brass, I've got .222 brass that was run with very high velocity loads and reloaded 20+ times, FLS every time, never annealed and lost maybe 2 out of 400 cases. Some of that brass was then used to make brass for my 300 Whisper.
I've got over 400 pieces 7-08 brass that has only ever been neck-sized and have lost about 10% of that to split necks after less than 10 reloads and running somewhat mild loads.
The quality of the brass, fit to chamber, quality of the dies, dimensions of dies relative to chamber, loads used, along with many other factors play a role in this.
Generalisations cannot be applied when it comes to these things.

In my experience, the Yanks are a bunch of followers, whatever the bloke that wins this year used and did, you can back it in a whole bunch will copy that next time around. Not sayin' it doesn't work, just sayin'.

[marksman]

"In my experience, the Yanks are a bunch of followers, whatever the bloke that wins this year used and did, you can back it in a whole bunch will copy that next time around. Not sayin' it doesn't work, just sayin'."


l've heard and read that from that many high class shooters, barrel manufacturers, gunsmiths ect its not funny and l agree

[in2anity]

Bill, I watched your videos ...
Be very careful with generalisations.

So on the one hand, you’re telling people not to generalize, then on the other you’re summing up an entire country of people in a sentence:

the Yanks are a bunch of followers.

Bit of the “pot calling the kettle black” there bud. Just sayin. jokes jokes

[SCJ429]

Generally copying what successful people are doing is a good strategy. For me, neck sizing works and I do see the need to FLS very often. If my life depended on reliable feeding, I would FLS, even at the cost of some accuracy. If you want to FLS and it does not cost any accuracy, then why not.

[Gamerancher]

Not really Bill, "in my experience" isn't a generalisation, just a statement of my "experience", but nicely taken out of context anyway. Tell me, do you work for the mainstream media?

[Bill]

Say what ?, I think In2anity was questioning you mate......

And no I'm a technical consultant

[Gamerancher]

Sorry, my bad. Apologies Bill.

in2anity, I still stand by what I said. The statement was in direct relation to the competitions I'm involved in and the people I associate with, not the entire country. Please re-read the entire statement .
To qualify my remarks, last year, I finished "Top Ten" in my discipline at the U.S. N.R.A Nationals. Straight after the presentation, I had a bunch of shooters who had never been interested in my comings and goings, all of a sudden become really interested in what I did and how I did it.

I've also seen folks spend up big time building a rifle up "just like the champion has", only to still shoot scores to their ability. You could have the most accurate rifle and loads in the world, but if you are just an average shooter, you are just going to get average results.

Yes SCJ429, ( Mustang?), Paying attention to what the top shooters are doing and trying out similar approaches isn't a bad idea. But, unless you know exactly what they are doing, have identical equipment and have the same skill set, it would be a difficult thing to duplicate their results.

[in2anity]

in2anity, I still stand by what I said. The statement was in direct relation to the competitions I'm involved in and the people I associate with, not the entire country. Please re-read the entire statement .
To qualify my remarks, last year, I finished "Top Ten" in my discipline at the U.S. N.R.A Nationals. Straight after the presentation, I had a bunch of shooters who had never been interested in my comings and goings, all of a sudden become really interested in what I did and how I did it.

All good - I was just teasing "Gamerancher" I got you were more referring to the yanks within specific disciplines, I was just highlighting that misconceptions can sometimes be interpreted as hypocrisy. The written word is far more open to interpretation than the spoken.

And I agree that within competative shooting circles in general, there are anecdotes and ideas that tend to circle around, and there are lots of so called "experts". It's certainly the case within the MRCA - (no disrespect) actually the s**t talking that goes on before your detail is half the fun

And yes, I have, and do write in mainstream media, and get paid for it. But it's not my dayjob.

[Maxjon]

Buy Australian, buy Simplex FLS 2 die set. You can neck size only with a FL die too!