Loading "On the Lands"

[Jarhead]

Hi All,

I found a sweet spot in 6.5 about 20thou off the lands. I got .22MOA with it.

I am trying to achieve better- by exploring loads right on the lands. In the article in the following link on the lands loading is preferred.

https://enoughgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5688

I have also read elsewhere never to load on the lands-"always leave a jump."

I want to bounce this off you more experienced re-loaders before I go and start picking bolt pieces outta my face

I am thinking that:

1. the dangers inherent to loading on the lands is higher peak pressure.
2. People that develop a load towards max powder and then later move the bullet out to the lands are in danger of overpressure damage.

Therefore- If you start you load development over (i.e. load 10 on the lands cases in 1/2 grain increments- min load to max load- watching for pressure signs as you fire them) your face should be safe.

Is this valid and am I missing anything?

[bigrich]

well , it's up to you jarhead. your already shooting really tight groups, is it worth the risk to push the safety aspect ? a cool day to a really hot summers day can make a difference in preasures relating to powder and clearances off the lands . i've seen a tikka bolt blow up through someone at the range on the bench next to me ,mixing up their ammo (308 was fired in a 270 win ) , and it didn't seem like fun

if your hunting .22 moa is more than good enough , if your into comps i think shooting skills will have bigger impact than risking groups a couple of thou tighter

stay safe and play safe JH

[marksman]

l do both with different rifles and it can be done safely by adjusting the amount of powder to keep your pressures safe, when l jam l use vld bullets with a secant ogive and do not have problems with a bullet staying in the lands when l extract a live round
the hornady reloading manual has a chapter at the start showing pressures ect.. most experienced reloaders that l know treat this like there bible
the idea of having your bullets into the lands is so you will get a more concentric and an even pressure start for the shot
you will get a similar effect by jumping and crimping without the pressure spike, the pressure spike when into the lands is around 7200 psi higher than jumping
l have read by one of Australia's top fly shooters that you should either jam the bullet 20 thou or jump by 20 thou
my most precise factory rifles like to jump 4mm yet a most of my customs like to be jammed
l like to let the rifle decide where the bullet likes to sit

[9.3x64]

Is this a hunting rifle?
If yes I would never load on the lands, just my two cents.
Temperature, water, mud, dirt, inaccurate loading techniques or measuring tools , can all make a difference.
I’ve been in an unexpected dust storm while hunting a fallow buck. I was washing red dust out of every orifce in my body for days. How would a into the lands hand load function in those conditions.

If it’s a target rifle, go for it and try it , but work up carefully.

[SCJ429]

If you wanted to shoot good groups at the range and you wanted your bullet travelling at 3,000 fps, for example, do a ladder test with the bullet jammed and shoot until you see pressure signs. Hopefully you saw a little cluster of loads around 3,000. Once you have found a load you are happy with, you could try to tune it a little with a jump test, run the bullet out in steps to 120 thou jump. See if it gets better or worse. Most match bullets shoot best jammed. If you are using any other bullet than Berger, you are best to batch the bullets and use the ones with the same base to ogive length.

If you go to any comps and ask the guys who are doing well, I am betting that they are shooting jammed into the lands.

[SCJ429]

If you are using those Hornady ELD bullets you will have to batch them otherwise you will chase your tail.

[Jarhead]

Thanks all for the responses!

Bigrich,

I hear you! But I can't stop now......

I told an old friend that I would stop load development when I got under 1/4 MOA. I was stirring him up because his AR-10 chambered 6.5CM will not shoot that well. So when I told him I had got under that number- he stirred me back by sending the article about the Houston shooters- knowing it would drive me nuts and make me not stop trying to achieve smaller numbers. He knows me well. We did the same thing through 6 years in the Marine Corps together and it drove us both the achieve some difficult goals, and have some competitive fun along the way. e.g. I abseiled off of a 4 storey building bouncing only 3 times, so he did it in one bounce. I then took about 3 meters of slack line and jumped off the roof instead of leaning out ( it's harder than it sounds) . He then took 5 meters and did the same.......etc. We survived each other but only just, and it was like that almost every day for 6 years. It was fun......and surprisingly my body is still able to produce adrenaline- it really should have run out by now.

So......I will be satisfied when I get a reliable sub .1xxx MOA groups now.......

9.3x64,

It looks to be turning into a target rifle.

I have loaded 10 rounds, starting at 37grains of AR2209 and incrementing .5 grain up to 41.5. That is the range for a Hornady 140grain A-Max according to ADI load data. 140 grain ELD-M's so it should be similar to the A-Max load.


I am using 40.1 grains of 2209 with that 140g ELD 20thou off the lands- So starting at 37 grains on the lands sounds safe. Thanks for the advice!

SCJ429,

I have about 180 140grain ELD's ready to load in a bin- they are all from the same batch. I measured all of them base to ogive and the max delta I found was 1 thou. I am not seeing the same problem that you did. (I zero'd the verniers on the first one- it would be good if you could let me know if you are measuring differently....)

140gnELD-M.jpg (1.17 MiB) Viewed 1551 times

What bullets were they? What sort of delta did you see between rounds? Were they all from the same batch?

A colleague bought 1000 of these for $490 (!) from a reputable QLD dealer. They all came loose in ziplock bags. I missed that deal and bought some from a Sydney dealer for $58 per 100. I bought 1000 total and they came in boxes of 100 with the lot number on each box. I managed to get 2 lots, 4 boxes of one lot# and 6 of the other lot #. Did you get them in boxes or bags? My thinking is if they were bagged you may be getting the "floor sweepings"- which is why they cost so little.