loading for 5.7 x 28

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loading for 5.7 x 28

Post by Bello » 30 Jul 2020, 9:34 am

Hello all
I am leaning on the brains trust of the 'Enough gun' family to get a starting point for loading for an FN 5.7 x 28 pistol.
I want to work up safe loads. I would like to use ADI powders.
The question is: what primer, what ADI powder, what projectile and weight, and C.O.A.L.
Has anyone been able to source brass for this calibre and if so where, and how much.
I have done some reading and it appears this calibre can be a little prickly to load for.
I have found some loaded ammunition but they are asking $60 per pack of 50. Hardly anyone stocks it.
Thanks
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Re: loading for 5.7 x 28

Post by bladeracer » 30 Jul 2020, 10:14 am

Lee does die sets, your best bet would be to order a few hundred rounds of factory ammo and reload that brass.
$60/50rds doesn't sound too bad for a very uncommon cartridge. I wouldn't expect anybody to keep it on the shelf, but your dealer can order it for you.
I would suggest you start with replicating the factory ammo with the same bullet or something similar.
If you email ADI that should be able to steer you in the right direction regarding powder choices.
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Re: loading for 5.7 x 28

Post by boingk » 30 Jul 2020, 10:18 am

Hi mate, the standard load on these is an odd one - plasticore rounds coming in at about 23 grains. I can also see references online to "SS196SR" which is a 40gn Hornady VMax projectile fired at 1800fps from the 10" test barrel, and about 1600fps from a pistol with a 5" barrel.

I'd be attempting to duplicate the commercial offerings like the SS196SR. If you can buy ammunition at $1.20 a round that's not too bad. In the rifle world that is pretty normal. Buy it, use it, chronograph it, record the data and scavenge the brass. I'm assuming you have some variant of the ES Five-Seven semi auto pistol?

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Re: loading for 5.7 x 28

Post by bladeracer » 30 Jul 2020, 10:19 am

We don't have power here today so I can't really research it, but I did find this.
https://web.archive.org/web/20090123062 ... mm_200811/
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Re: loading for 5.7 x 28

Post by Bello » 30 Jul 2020, 11:35 am

Hello
Bladeracer: I have purchased some RCBS dies, they are on order and will be here in the next moth or so. Thanks for the link, it has given me a few ideas. It seems like the 40gr V-max and 40gr sierra soft point are popular projectiles for this pistol.
Boingk: I have purchased an FN 5.7 x 28 pistol and am waiting for the pta to come thorough. I have also purchased some loaded ammunition for it and will be keeping the brass for load development. Clevers in Queensland seem to have most of the loaded ammo. Its hard to get in Sydney.
I have read on some other site that people are using small rifle and also small magnum primers.
I am hoping someone may be already loading for this pistol and can give me a start on some of the components they have found work well.
The only mention of powder I have read is Accurate No. 7. I want to see if anyone has used ADI powders and has any success.
I have emailed ADI and asked them what powder they suggest, what primes and projectiles, C.O.A.L etc.
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Re: loading for 5.7 x 28

Post by boingk » 30 Jul 2020, 12:14 pm

Bello wrote:I have emailed ADI and asked them what powder they suggest, what primes and projectiles, C.O.A.L etc.


Nice, good start.

Honestly I tend to run Rifle primers in all my stuff as they seem to tolerate pressure better. The Fiocchi small rifle and Federal Large Magnum Rifle are my go-to units.

ADI should be able to give you some good advice.

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Re: loading for 5.7 x 28

Post by Bello » 30 Jul 2020, 1:38 pm

Hi Guys
I got a reply form ADI.
They aren't able to help. This is the reply I goy today

Australian Munitions
Private Bag No 1, Mulwala,
NSW 2647, Australia
+61 (0)3 5744 1873
reload.support@adi-powders.com.au
www.adi-powders.com.au
Australian Munitions ABN 66 008 642 751
ENQUIRY REPLY
Date: 30/7/2020
Reference No: 12724
To: Bello
Thank you for your enquiry of 30/7/2020 with regard to reloading using ADI Sporting
powders.
Unfortunately, there is no test data available for 5.7x28.
As you can imagine, there are a vast number of different firearm types and components
and it is impossible to completely cover all possible loads.
ADI does have a strong commitment to supply data for the most popular loads in use in
the Australian and New Zealand market. This requires us to undertake our own test
firings using specialised proofing equipment. Alternatively, we may supply load data by
exchanging data with our American distributor.
We do not currently have the resources to conduct the test firings which are necessary
to develop the loads. We have also checked with our American distributor and they
have no load data available either.
Extreme caution should be taken and loads should be worked up accordingly. Refer to
our website at www.adi-powders.com.au or our 10th edition handloaders’ guide for
more information, warnings and reloading safety.
We thank you for using ADI Sporting Powders.
Yours sincerely,
ADI Technical Centre
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Re: loading for 5.7 x 28

Post by bladeracer » 30 Jul 2020, 3:09 pm

That does not surprise me, I don't believe they do much if any actual load development, just feed numbers into a computer.

I would look at .22 Hornet load data as a starting point. Start low and work up until the pistol cycles reliably. What are you using it for precisely?
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Re: loading for 5.7 x 28

Post by bladeracer » 30 Jul 2020, 4:07 pm

Having the house re-wired the last two days but we finally have power back on :-)

5.7x28mm is listed as case capacity of 13.9gn of H2O.
.22 Hornet is listed as 14.0gn of H2O.
Virtually identical.
.22H pushes a 35gn bullet around 3000fps in rifles.
5.7x28mm makes about 2350fps with the 31gn bullet, but in a 10.5" barrel.

In the Hornet, ADI list AR2205 and AR2207, I would use the AR2205 myself. Their max load with the 35gn bullet makes 2770fps in a 15" barrel, on 11.6gn of AR2205 (same load makes 2900fps in a 24" barrel). That loads sounds about identical to what you'd get in the 5.7x28mm in a 15" barrel. I would load single rounds from 10.0gn to 11.5gn and shoot them to see if they cycle the pistol, and watching for pressure signs. Once you have that you can play around for accuracy if you want to.
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ADI Hornet Pistol Loads.JPG (117.36 KiB) Viewed 184 times
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Re: loading for 5.7 x 28

Post by marksman » 30 Jul 2020, 6:05 pm

geeez l haven't heard of that round for years but lately l do live in a bubble

l was present when the belgian armourers were at little river giving a demo in pistol and bullpup which was my favourite
l did have a good quantity of cases but l cannot find them, it has been years, if l find them l will give you a PM

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Re: loading for 5.7 x 28

Post by Bello » 30 Jul 2020, 6:16 pm

Thanks marksman, that’s would be great. I have tried to source some brass, but so far it’s not proving easy. I looked at brownells here and in USA, with no luck so far.
You wouldn’t by chance have any load data for the 5.7 x 28.
Thanks blade racer for getting the above info. If I can’t find anyone who actually has loaded for this round you have given me a point of reference to start.
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Re: loading for 5.7 x 28

Post by bladeracer » 30 Jul 2020, 6:17 pm

marksman wrote:geeez l haven't heard of that round for years but lately l do live in a bubble

l was present when the belgian armourers were at little river giving a demo in pistol and bullpup which was my favourite
l did have a good quantity of cases but l cannot find them, it has been years, if l find them l will give you a PM

Image



What went wrong with that case? Looks like it's blown the shoulder forward about 2mm?
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Re: loading for 5.7 x 28

Post by marksman » 31 Jul 2020, 9:46 am

Bello wrote:Thanks marksman, that’s would be great. I have tried to source some brass, but so far it’s not proving easy. I looked at brownells here and in USA, with no luck so far.
You wouldn’t by chance have any load data for the 5.7 x 28.
Thanks blade racer for getting the above info. If I can’t find anyone who actually has loaded for this round you have given me a point of reference to start.


no reloading data sry, the FN guys had an endless supply,
its an unbelievable round what it's capable of, the bullpup was awesome, l've never seen a magazine setup like that and worked flawlessly
my eyes are not good enough to see the base of the case properly but the 308 ammo had FN stamped and there ammo was specially loaded for them

"What went wrong with that case? Looks like it's blown the shoulder forward about 2mm?"
its how it came out out whatever it was shot from blade :unknown:
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Re: loading for 5.7 x 28

Post by bladeracer » 31 Jul 2020, 5:45 pm

I forgot to add that the .22 Hornet and thew 5.7x28mm both operate at similar pressures as well, 49,000psi and 50,000psi, so similar loads should be safe in both.

Something occurred to me last night. Being a handgun, you have to go to a range for load development, so it's worth loading a wide range of ammo to test in one session, then just disassemble whatever is left after you find the pressure limits. But these little suckers are going to be a bastard to disassemble. I think you'll struggle to knock them out with an impact puller, and the tiny bullets might be difficult to grab with a collet puller as well. You might have to sacrifice some bullets to testing and pull them destructively, with pliers or a vice.
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Re: loading for 5.7 x 28

Post by Bello » 02 Aug 2020, 7:35 am

I have been looking at some articles from the USA, they are loading N105, AA5 and AA7 (AA7) is now discontinued I think. As I can work out from reading ADI powder equivalent, these American powders may be close the APS450. The American powders fall between AP50 and AP70 it appears. :unknown:
https://loaddata.com/articles/pdf/ld-17 ... %20lr1.pdf
Am I close, or is my reasoning floored.
The other option may be AR2205, which I use in my 357, 44mag and 360s/w.
I am curious though, may the AR2205 be too slow a powder for the 5.7 x 28 as it uses a very light pill.
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Re: loading for 5.7 x 28

Post by bladeracer » 02 Aug 2020, 1:36 pm

Bello wrote:I have been looking at some articles from the USA, they are loading N105, AA5 and AA7 (AA7) is now discontinued I think. As I can work out from reading ADI powder equivalent, these American powders may be close the APS450. The American powders fall between AP50 and AP70 it appears. :unknown:
https://loaddata.com/articles/pdf/ld-17 ... %20lr1.pdf
Am I close, or is my reasoning floored.
The other option may be AR2205, which I use in my 357, 44mag and 360s/w.
I am curious though, may the AR2205 be too slow a powder for the 5.7 x 28 as it uses a very light pill.


Burn rates are not equivalents, I would use AR2205 unless you can source some of those foreign powders.
The data I used from the Hornet is with the 35gn bullets in 15" handgun barrels and should work fine in your handgun.
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Re: loading for 5.7 x 28

Post by bladeracer » 02 Aug 2020, 1:43 pm

I think Brett loads 5.7x28mm so I've sent him a message.
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Re: loading for 5.7 x 28

Post by marksman » 03 Aug 2020, 12:13 pm

sry Bello l have had a really good look and just cant find the cases :unknown:
l may have already given them away
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Re: loading for 5.7 x 28

Post by Bello » 03 Aug 2020, 1:18 pm

Hi Marksman
Thanks for trying for me.
I am now making enquiries about getting a permit to either import some cases or loaded ammo.
I am just in the early throws of it, will let you know how I go.
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Re: loading for 5.7 x 28

Post by bladeracer » 03 Aug 2020, 2:35 pm

Bello wrote:Hi Marksman
Thanks for trying for me.
I am now making enquiries about getting a permit to either import some cases or loaded ammo.
I am just in the early throws of it, will let you know how I go.


Never tried importing ammo, but brass is easy, just bloody expensive. I would expect ammo to be vastly more expensive.
Your best bet is to have a dealer order several hundred rounds, then reload the brass.
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Re: loading for 5.7 x 28

Post by bladeracer » 03 Aug 2020, 2:50 pm

Reloadinginternational don't list 5.7x28mm brass, but might be worth emailing.
Brownells list dies and ammo, but not brass.

I think NIOA is the Federal importer so an email to them might tell you the likeliest dealers to have it in stock, or when the next shipment is expected.
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Re: loading for 5.7 x 28

Post by bladeracer » 03 Aug 2020, 3:18 pm

Cleaver list Federal American Eagle at a buck apiece for 500rds. Even with $200 shipping it's still far cheaper than trying to import brass.
RebelGunWorks don't list it but do sell American Eagle ammo so should be able to order ammo it for you, they only charge $60 freight on ammo.
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Re: loading for 5.7 x 28

Post by bladeracer » 03 Aug 2020, 3:36 pm

I also found this article, but it's with foreign powders.
https://loaddata.com/articles/pdf/ld-17%20pearce%20lr1.pdf

You may have to consider this to be not worth the effort to reload, and just sell your brass online.
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Re: loading for 5.7 x 28

Post by Bello » 04 Aug 2020, 5:35 am

Hi Bladeracer
I have contacted Clever firearms in Queensland, but they will not ship to NSW, they said the laws prohibit live ammo, primers, and powders being sent south. (I think they may even have some of the American powders listed in the articles I have read about for reloading 5.7 x 28). Something about NSW laws.
I have tried a number of avenues for brass with no luck, even tried the Aussies guy who does once fired stuff; Wayne, again no luck and no idea when he can get any brass.
I have ordered dies through Magnum sports in Sydney, and they will take about a month or so to get here.
I am now thinking of cancelling my order for this pistol as it seems that, not only is it finicky to load for, loading components are as rear as hens teeth.
I was looking forwards to the challenge, but this one may have beaten me.
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Re: loading for 5.7 x 28

Post by bladeracer » 04 Aug 2020, 6:02 am

Bello wrote:Hi Bladeracer
I have contacted Clever firearms in Queensland, but they will not ship to NSW, they said the laws prohibit live ammo, primers, and powders being sent south. (I think they may even have some of the American powders listed in the articles I have read about for reloading 5.7 x 28). Something about NSW laws.
I have tried a number of avenues for brass with no luck, even tried the Aussies guy who does once fired stuff; Wayne, again no luck and no idea when he can get any brass.
I have ordered dies through Magnum sports in Sydney, and they will take about a month or so to get here.
I am now thinking of cancelling my order for this pistol as it seems that, not only is it finicky to load for, loading components are as rear as hens teeth.
I was looking forwards to the challenge, but this one may have beaten me.


No, they can ship ammo and primers. Nobody can ship powders anywhere in Oz, your dealer will have to order powders for you.

I can't say I blame you, although I don't know what purpose there might be in owning the Five-Seven when you are restricted to club use only. I think it's just an expensive plinker, although it might be useful on small game, if we were allowed to hunt with it.

I remember something I read about the FN Five-Seven years ago, if you want a handgun just for fun get the Five-Seven, but if you want a handgun to do handgun stuff get a proper handgun, or something like that :-)
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Re: loading for 5.7 x 28

Post by Bello » 04 Aug 2020, 4:58 pm

Hi Bladeracer
I have tried to contact a number of USA suppliers, but so far no luck. They have their own issues with shipping ammo AND brass overseas.
I need to find a sympathetic person on enough gun that lives in the USA who can buy some brass and ship it over for me.
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Re: loading for 5.7 x 28

Post by bladeracer » 04 Aug 2020, 5:05 pm

Bello wrote:Hi Bladeracer
I have tried to contact a number of USA suppliers, but so far no luck. They have their own issues with shipping ammo AND brass overseas.
I need to find a sympathetic person on enough gun that lives in the USA who can buy some brass and ship it over for me.


No, you do not want to do that. Your friend would be committing Federal offences just to save you a few dollars, and you will be risking federal charges here also for illegal importation - very, very stupid.

It would also still be cheaper to just buy ammo locally and re-use the brass. Or just sell the brass to somebody else and buy more ammo.
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Re: loading for 5.7 x 28

Post by bladeracer » 04 Aug 2020, 5:11 pm

You haven't told us your purpose for this pistol, so I really can't imagine you're going to be going through much ammo for it. Are there any competitions you can shoot with it?

I don't know what you are used to paying for ammo, but a buck apiece is pretty reasonable for a very obscure cartridge. Considering the price of the pistol itself, the ammo seems like the cheapest part of the exercise.
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