Is Australia heading for an AMMO/Reloading shortage?

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Re: Is Australia heading for an AMMO/Reloading shortage?

Post by bladeracer » 16 Nov 2021, 8:01 am

bigrich wrote:Numerous gun shops tell me there’s lots of containers sitting on docks in California full of projectiles and gear to come to Australia. The cost to get a container shipped to Australia has at least tripled or more. It’s not as profitable for shipping companies to transport to Australia supposedly, I reckon we’re getting price gouged by these shipping companies. The shortage in Australia at the moment is due to these shipping problems from what I’ve been told.
Used to be the federal government actually owned a couple of container ships back in the day to guard against this sort of thing. The ships got old and decommissioned, now we’re at the mercy of gouging from private companies.
Wondering if they are Chinese owned.......


Before Covid, there were ships and aircraft crossing all the wet bits of the planet, all day, every day. If you had something that needed to be somewhere else you just got it to a depot and it would very soon be en-route, at minimal cost. Now, a huge number of those ships and aircraft are sitting idle, so stuff sits in warehouses until there happens to be some space available on something. Additionally, lots of countries, and companies, have implemented quarantine measures, so even if you get your stuff to a depot, nobody will touch it until it's been inspected and decontaminated. The international transport industry has slowed to a crawl. This means less product being moved, thus the cost of moving that product has increased significantly. Ships and aircraft not being used are still costing money to own, money that needs to be earned by the ships still in service.

I'm sure lots of people are gouging, but I think most are just trying to restructure their businesses to stay in business in a new environment.

The long-haul routes have always had higher costs of shipping. A ship crossing the Mediterranean, the English Channel, or the China Sea is bringing in money very regularly, making several easy trips per day. Take one of those ships and send it to Australia instead, and in one voyage lasting weeks, it has to make as much as it could make in one day of short-haul trips, with far lower risks.
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Re: Is Australia heading for an AMMO/Reloading shortage?

Post by Oldbloke » 16 Nov 2021, 8:02 am

cz515 wrote:^^^everything is China fault.

I have heard a rumour that last year Chinese companies bought a lot of shipping companies and now they are purposely charging more to teach Australia a lesson. Plus ofcourse the stevedoring company raised their prices 33% which was after unions got 50% increases in conditions

Solution we need to stop buying imported goods


That, my friend sounds like,

Bullshit detector.jpg
Bullshit detector.jpg (25.04 KiB) Viewed 4901 times


Perhaps a typo?
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Re: Is Australia heading for an AMMO/Reloading shortage?

Post by bladeracer » 16 Nov 2021, 8:17 am

Oldbloke wrote:
cz515 wrote:^^^everything is China fault.

I have heard a rumour that last year Chinese companies bought a lot of shipping companies and now they are purposely charging more to teach Australia a lesson. Plus ofcourse the stevedoring company raised their prices 33% which was after unions got 50% increases in conditions

Solution we need to stop buying imported goods


That, my friend sounds like,

bulls**t detector.jpg


Perhaps a typo?


Agreed, 50% benefit isn't enough to get unions out of bed for :-)
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Re: Is Australia heading for an AMMO/Reloading shortage?

Post by cz515 » 16 Nov 2021, 1:06 pm

:lol: I could be off on the number. But Australian ports (Melbourne) is one of the slowest ports in the world as far as productivity goes. A few years ago I got some equipment from overseas, it was 10 cubic meters, cost me about 2.5k once it reached Port of Melbourne (does and gst was like 300 of that).

Two weeks ago I was reading two of China biggest ports are sitting idle due to covid quarantine. Port in California has more than 110 container ships waiting to unload the highest everbacklog. This means 110 ships that are now delayed.

Another business I know has equipment stuck in Melbourne because of quarantine delays, that's after he was telling me they had to truck it to a different port in Italy as the delay there was in months. So a container from Europe needs to be sprayed, after spray customs will not check it until it's washed. But the delay in washing is so bad that many times they can't check it in the time specified, so guess what, it needs to be sprayed again.... and washed again. Yes a funny joke... except the business has tens of thousands of dollars items they Hasbro paid for but cannot sell
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Re: Is Australia heading for an AMMO/Reloading shortage?

Post by bigrich » 16 Nov 2021, 5:00 pm

we all should buy a 303-25 and we'll get "super" ammo up and running again ....... :)
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Re: Is Australia heading for an AMMO/Reloading shortage?

Post by bladeracer » 16 Nov 2021, 6:39 pm

bigrich wrote:we all should buy a 303-25 and we'll get "super" ammo up and running again ....... :)



With Winchester stopping commercial manufacture I thought somebody might do a deal with ADI and get local ammo manufacture happening again, but I guess we just don't have the market to make it viable, and the costs involved in exporting halfway around the planet would price us out of foreign markets as well.
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Re: Is Australia heading for an AMMO/Reloading shortage?

Post by Blr243 » 16 Nov 2021, 7:03 pm

Was sammi specs ever applied to 303 25 , and the various versions of 303 22 , 303270 ? Or were the dies and chambers and ammo all over the shop ?
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Re: Is Australia heading for an AMMO/Reloading shortage?

Post by bladeracer » 16 Nov 2021, 8:10 pm

Blr243 wrote:Was sammi specs ever applied to 303 25 , and the various versions of 303 22 , 303270 ? Or were the dies and chambers and ammo all over the shop ?


Wasn't Super part of the driving force behind those wildcats?
I doubt reamers were being made by a variety of companies back then, probably all came from the same place.
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Re: Is Australia heading for an AMMO/Reloading shortage?

Post by Marlin44 » 19 Nov 2021, 6:17 am

We are just seeing tip of the iceberg with component shortages. The US manufacturers are using their own primers, brass etc to load factory. The demand is beyond ridiculous. In the last year around 12 million new firearm owners need to also be catered for.
CCI have stopped taking orders for primers as they have 4 years worth of orders already. While Factory ammo will still be churning off the machines, it's looking grim for the reloader.
The sooner the Hornady and Maxim primer plants get running the better.
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Re: Is Australia heading for an AMMO/Reloading shortage?

Post by Bill » 19 Nov 2021, 5:25 pm

Spoke to my local and Nosler BT's in popular 224 55gr probably not going to get here til the 2nd half of 2022, only a few boxes left on the shelf. Hornady 55gr Vmax will also be hard to get.

plenty of primers on the shelf but definitely some price gougin going on by some shops. Saw some 17WSM ammo for $46/50 the other day WTF, I bought bulk only 2 years ago for $13/50, that a jack up of 350% :thumbsdown:
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Re: Is Australia heading for an AMMO/Reloading shortage?

Post by wanneroo » 20 Nov 2021, 12:45 am

Marlin44 wrote:The sooner the Hornady and Maxim primer plants get running the better.


What's the story on that? Haven't heard anything about it.
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Re: Is Australia heading for an AMMO/Reloading shortage?

Post by wrenchman » 20 Nov 2021, 2:40 am

I have been seeing lots of 9mm on the shelves and 223/556 but it is really hard to get hunting ammo it is a good thing I reload and and have good amount on hand
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Re: Is Australia heading for an AMMO/Reloading shortage?

Post by bigrich » 20 Nov 2021, 8:25 am

bladeracer wrote:
bigrich wrote:we all should buy a 303-25 and we'll get "super" ammo up and running again ....... :)



With Winchester stopping commercial manufacture I thought somebody might do a deal with ADI and get local ammo manufacture happening again, but I guess we just don't have the market to make it viable, and the costs involved in exporting halfway around the planet would price us out of foreign markets as well.


at the moment adi make 223, 243 , 308 . useable bare bones caliber list for this country . wouldn't take too much retooling to include other 308 based calibers . 260rem , 7-08 . it's probably not worth the tooling cost to set up for 30-06 based calibers and others .
it's projectile supply that has me worried
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Re: Is Australia heading for an AMMO/Reloading shortage?

Post by bigrich » 20 Nov 2021, 8:28 am

Marlin44 wrote:We are just seeing tip of the iceberg with component shortages. The US manufacturers are using their own primers, brass etc to load factory. The demand is beyond ridiculous. In the last year around 12 million new firearm owners need to also be catered for.
CCI have stopped taking orders for primers as they have 4 years worth of orders already. While Factory ammo will still be churning off the machines, it's looking grim for the reloader.
The sooner the Hornady and Maxim primer plants get running the better.


it's actually a good time for a new market competitor to start up . maybe some company's like hornady will expand manufactering :unknown:
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Re: Is Australia heading for an AMMO/Reloading shortage?

Post by Communism_Is_Cancer » 20 Nov 2021, 8:42 am

9mm is so cheap at the moment. About $350 for 1000 rounds at Cleavers.
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Re: Is Australia heading for an AMMO/Reloading shortage?

Post by Communism_Is_Cancer » 20 Nov 2021, 8:49 am

If I was dictator of Queensland every business would want to operate inside Queensland because taxes would be low and there would be no red tape.

Firearms, ammo, fireworks, firecrackers, crossbows have huge potential to generate so much revenue and create jobs. Queensland should have big munition factories to export to world markets.

Red tape is the cause of all these shortages.
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Re: Is Australia heading for an AMMO/Reloading shortage?

Post by bigrich » 20 Nov 2021, 9:09 am

Communism_Is_Cancer wrote:If I was dictator of Queensland every business would want to operate inside Queensland because taxes would be low and there would be no red tape.

Firearms, ammo, fireworks, firecrackers, crossbows have huge potential to generate so much revenue and create jobs. Queensland should have big munition factories to export to world markets.

Red tape is the cause of all these shortages.


i agree :thumbsup: CIC for premier ! :lol: what's the name of your party , "guns-is-good" :P
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Re: Is Australia heading for an AMMO/Reloading shortage?

Post by Communism_Is_Cancer » 20 Nov 2021, 9:27 am

bigrich wrote:
Communism_Is_Cancer wrote:If I was dictator of Queensland every business would want to operate inside Queensland because taxes would be low and there would be no red tape.

Firearms, ammo, fireworks, firecrackers, crossbows have huge potential to generate so much revenue and create jobs. Queensland should have big munition factories to export to world markets.

Red tape is the cause of all these shortages.


i agree :thumbsup: CIC for premier ! :lol: what's the name of your party , "guns-is-good" :P



Cheers mate. :drinks:

Overregulation is the biggest reason for so many of societies problems. There is no reason we shouldn't make our own goods.
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Re: Is Australia heading for an AMMO/Reloading shortage?

Post by bigrich » 20 Nov 2021, 10:10 am

We used to manufacture lots in this country, electronics, white goods, cars , trucks. It all went down hill after John Howard’s free trade agreement got rid of tariffs on imports. The tariff ensured local manufacturing and sovereignty of our country
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Re: Is Australia heading for an AMMO/Reloading shortage?

Post by bladeracer » 20 Nov 2021, 10:32 am

bigrich wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
bigrich wrote:we all should buy a 303-25 and we'll get "super" ammo up and running again ....... :)



With Winchester stopping commercial manufacture I thought somebody might do a deal with ADI and get local ammo manufacture happening again, but I guess we just don't have the market to make it viable, and the costs involved in exporting halfway around the planet would price us out of foreign markets as well.


at the moment adi make 223, 243 , 308 . useable bare bones caliber list for this country . wouldn't take too much retooling to include other 308 based calibers . 260rem , 7-08 . it's probably not worth the tooling cost to set up for 30-06 based calibers and others .
it's projectile supply that has me worried


I don't think ADI will be making ammo for much longer if they can't get primers.
Bullets are a non-problem as it's very easy to make your own, either casting lead, or machining copper or brass.

Brass is more complicated but generally still pretty easy to make if you don't need piles of it. For brass up to .308 rim diameter you want stock of 12mm brass rod, for .223 size brass you want 10mm rod.

Blackpowder can be made reasonably easily, but not with much consistency, and generally illegal.

Primers are the real stumbling block. Without primers we have to go back to flintlock.
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Re: Is Australia heading for an AMMO/Reloading shortage?

Post by bladeracer » 20 Nov 2021, 10:57 am

bigrich wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
bigrich wrote:we all should buy a 303-25 and we'll get "super" ammo up and running again ....... :)



With Winchester stopping commercial manufacture I thought somebody might do a deal with ADI and get local ammo manufacture happening again, but I guess we just don't have the market to make it viable, and the costs involved in exporting halfway around the planet would price us out of foreign markets as well.


at the moment adi make 223, 243 , 308 . useable bare bones caliber list for this country . wouldn't take too much retooling to include other 308 based calibers . 260rem , 7-08 . it's probably not worth the tooling cost to set up for 30-06 based calibers and others .
it's projectile supply that has me worried


I don't think ADI will be making ammo for much longer if they can't get primers.
Bullets are a non-problem as it's very easy to make your own, either casting lead, or machining copper or brass.

Brass is more complicated but generally still pretty easy to make if you don't need piles of it. For brass up to .308 rim diameter you want stock of 12mm brass rod, for .223 size brass you want 10mm rod.

Blackpowder can be made reasonably easily, but not with much consistency, and generally illegal.

Primers are the real stumbling block. Without primers we have to go back to flintlock.
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Re: Is Australia heading for an AMMO/Reloading shortage?

Post by Marlin44 » 20 Nov 2021, 12:51 pm

Spot on Bladeracer. The company currently supplying ADI with primers has ceased supply and RUAG (Swiss Govt owned) is being broken up into individual elements, so future supply is uncertain.
Projectiles WILL be an issue - lead and copper prices are soaring and becoming harder to get - check the commodoties market.
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Re: Is Australia heading for an AMMO/Reloading shortage?

Post by disco stu » 20 Nov 2021, 12:56 pm

Time to read that DIY primer document I downloaded out of pure interest I guess
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Re: Is Australia heading for an AMMO/Reloading shortage?

Post by Oldbloke » 20 Nov 2021, 4:26 pm

ADI certainly have the capacity to make their own primers. Might just be the Swiss were cheap and they stopped making them.
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Re: Is Australia heading for an AMMO/Reloading shortage?

Post by Noisydad » 20 Nov 2021, 5:02 pm

I’m doing my bit to ease the shortage by manufacturing bullet mold handles for those that cast their own. Pretty certain I’m theonly maker of mold handles in Australia.
There's still a few of Wile. E Coyote's ideas that I haven't tried yet.
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Re: Is Australia heading for an AMMO/Reloading shortage?

Post by bladeracer » 20 Nov 2021, 10:45 pm

Noisydad wrote:I’m doing my bit to ease the shortage by manufacturing bullet mold handles for those that cast their own. Pretty certain I’m theonly maker of mold handles in Australia.


I just use the Lee handles as they're cheap, readily available, easily swapped, and they work.
Do you have a webpage or somewhere we can see your product?
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Re: Is Australia heading for an AMMO/Reloading shortage?

Post by Oldbloke » 21 Nov 2021, 8:08 am

Noisydad wrote:I’m doing my bit to ease the shortage by manufacturing bullet mold handles for those that cast their own. Pretty certain I’m theonly maker of mold handles in Australia.


Selling many Noisy?
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Re: Is Australia heading for an AMMO/Reloading shortage?

Post by boingk » 22 Nov 2021, 12:34 am

Grab some stump remover and sulphur powder gents, settle in for the grim days ahead.

If you can still get your hands on some 5 thou copper sheet horde it, failing that soft drink cans. Buy a punch and some primer compound and acetone. You'll be right.

Make friends with the local tyre shop (if they're still open) and see if they need some wheel weights taken away. If they're unsorted don't take any guff from them - its lead, zinc and iron. As unsorted waste its almost worthless. Offer them a round of coffees for a 20L pail full, thats about the rate I'm used to. If you get 50% lead you're doing alright.

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Re: Is Australia heading for an AMMO/Reloading shortage?

Post by bladeracer » 22 Nov 2021, 2:00 am

boingk wrote:Grab some stump remover and sulphur powder gents, settle in for the grim days ahead.

If you can still get your hands on some 5 thou copper sheet horde it, failing that soft drink cans. Buy a punch and some primer compound and acetone. You'll be right.

Make friends with the local tyre shop (if they're still open) and see if they need some wheel weights taken away. If they're unsorted don't take any guff from them - its lead, zinc and iron. As unsorted waste its almost worthless. Offer them a round of coffees for a 20L pail full, thats about the rate I'm used to. If you get 50% lead you're doing alright.

- boingk


How do you buy "some primer compound" in Australia?
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Re: Is Australia heading for an AMMO/Reloading shortage?

Post by straightshooter » 22 Nov 2021, 6:23 am

Some may enjoy and even benefit from reading the ancient wisdom contained in the link below.
It's not like there haven't been ups and downs with component availability in the past the remedy for which I have spoken about on many occasions.
Although this seems like it is going to be quite a deep and long down.

http://read.gov/aesop/052.html
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