If a bottle of reloading powder ignited?

Reloading equipment, methods, load data, powder and projectile information.

Re: If a bottle of reloading powder ignited?

Post by Herdsman » 21 Mar 2014, 5:19 pm

And here I thought it was just lots of small photos yelling at each other :lol:
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Re: If a bottle of reloading powder ignited?

Post by Chronos » 21 Mar 2014, 5:38 pm

Herdsman wrote:And here I thought it was just lots of small photos yelling at each other :lol:



:lol: you've just described the internet

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Re: If a bottle of reloading powder ignited?

Post by 1290 » 21 Mar 2014, 8:51 pm

you shy Chronos? didnt show your face only your hairy arm....and a handsome arm it is.

Black powder is explosive, smokeless is not.
Powder containers are purposefully relatively weak so that an ignition causes the container to split and not increase pressure, only when the ignited propellant is contained does the pressure increase extremely quickly - such as in the cartridge as chambered in a firearm....

Also, propellant is not to be stored in a steel receptacle such as an old fridge or steel cabinet
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Re: If a bottle of reloading powder ignited?

Post by von_klitzing » 21 Mar 2014, 9:16 pm

Got any reloading friends? Pay a visit and conveniently drop a match into a bottle :P
Only if you're game...
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Re: If a bottle of reloading powder ignited?

Post by Chronos » 21 Mar 2014, 9:19 pm

1290 wrote:you shy Chronos? didnt show your face only your hairy arm....and a handsome arm it is.


Lol. Had the iPhone balancing on a pile of dirt and didn't feel like sticking my face in the dirt just to get my ugly mug on camera. :lol:

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Re: If a bottle of reloading powder ignited?

Post by Aster » 22 Mar 2014, 6:54 am

von_klitzing wrote:Got any reloading friends? Pay a visit and conveniently drop a match into a bottle :P
Only if you're game...


And want ex-friends :P
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Re: If a bottle of reloading powder ignited?

Post by sooey » 22 Mar 2014, 6:55 am

1290 wrote:Also, propellant is not to be stored in a steel receptacle such as an old fridge or steel cabinet


Erm, or the ammo compartment of a gun safe?
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Re: If a bottle of reloading powder ignited?

Post by 1290 » 22 Mar 2014, 8:40 am

sooey wrote:Erm, or the ammo compartment of a gun safe?


That's right, no powder in the ammo compartment, unless its lined with a timber of other non sparking material....thems the regs, at least in Vic.
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Re: If a bottle of reloading powder ignited?

Post by brand » 22 Mar 2014, 1:06 pm

1290 wrote:That's right, no powder in the ammo compartment, unless its lined with a timber of other non sparking material....thems the regs, at least in Vic.


Got a link to that legislation?

I'm always been told that's where to store it. If the sparking thing is a concern that's fair enough, but never heard it mentioned as a legal thing.

Link?
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Re: If a bottle of reloading powder ignited?

Post by Seconds » 22 Mar 2014, 1:12 pm

I'm curious to confirm that too.

Quick Google through Vic police website and WorkSafe website which also came up with some info on storing powders didn't come up with anything about not storing in your safe?
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Re: If a bottle of reloading powder ignited?

Post by 1290 » 22 Mar 2014, 4:25 pm

The Politz will probably overlook such a detail as it falls under the Dangerous Goods Regs and not the Firearms Act...although they can still enforce the regs (worksafe are the licensing authority for explosives and dangerous goods)

Dangerous Goods (Explosives) Regulations 2011:
http://www.legislation.vic.gov.au/domino/Web_Notes/LDMS/LTObject_Store/ltobjst8.nsf/DDE300B846EED9C7CA257616000A3571/BF31ADBD9B794DBFCA257C78001872F8/$FILE/11-37sra005%20authorised.pdf


69 Explosives not to be stored in safes or refrigerators
A person who stores any explosives, except explosives of Classification Code 1.4S, must not store the explosives in a document safe, money safe or refrigerator.

70 Storage of Hazard Division 1.1, 1.2, [b]1.3, 1.5 or 1.6 explosives[/b]
(1) A person who stores explosives of Hazard Division 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.5 or 1.6 must—
(a) store the explosives in— (i) a receptacle that complies with regulation 73; and
(ii) a building that complies with regulation 63(1)(b); and .....

73 Requirements for construction of receptacles
A receptacle used for the storage of explosives must be constructed and maintained as follows—
(a) the construction of the receptacle must be sturdy; and
(b) the receptacle must have a close fitting closure; and
(c) the inner construction of the receptacle must—
(i) be made from, or be lined with, plywood or close joined timber or another suitable non-sparking material; and
(ii) not include exposed iron or steel.
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Re: If a bottle of reloading powder ignited?

Post by brand » 23 Mar 2014, 11:51 am

Thanks 1290.
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Re: If a bottle of reloading powder ignited?

Post by Oldbloke » 23 Mar 2014, 2:17 pm

I think you will find that the regulations only apply to worksafe licensed premises where large quantities of explosives are stored. That would normally include firearms dealers, manufactures or uses of large amounts of explosives under those regulations. The quantities that shooters store do not require a worksafe licence, they are too small.
However the regulations regarding storage are a very good guide for us to follow. Remember FISH, Friction, Impact, Spark, Heat.
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Re: If a bottle of reloading powder ignited?

Post by Harts » 23 Mar 2014, 4:38 pm

Here you go regarding quantities of storing powder in VIC.

How much ammunition can I store, sell, collect and import?
Licensed firearm dealers can sell, possess and store any quantity of cartridge ammunition but larger amounts of cartridge ammunition store have greater storage requirements. Dealers can also import any amount of cartridge ammunition as long as they have an import permit from LRD.

Licensed ammunition collectors can store and collect any amount of cartridge ammunition and can also import any amount of cartridge ammunition as long as they have an import permit from LRD.

Licensed firearm dealers can sell any amount of gunpowder and propellants provided they have a Worksafe Licence to Sell Explosives. Although dealers can also store any amount of gunpowder or propellants, they must have a WorkSafe Licence to Store Explosives in order to store more than 20kg of propellants or more than 5kg of propellant gun powder. Dealers must also have a WorkSafe Licence to Import Explosives to import any amount of gunpowder and propellants.


So you can store 5kg however is secure, WorkSafe stuff aside if you're a shooter I guess.
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Re: If a bottle of reloading powder ignited?

Post by 1290 » 23 Mar 2014, 5:07 pm

Oldbloke wrote:I think you will find that the regulations only apply to worksafe licensed premises where large quantities of explosives are stored. That would normally include firearms dealers, manufactures or uses of large amounts of explosives under those regulations. The quantities that shooters store do not require a worksafe licence, they are too small.
However the regulations regarding storage are a very good guide for us to follow. Remember FISH, Friction, Impact, Spark, Heat.


The regs apply to all classifications of explosives (even smokeless powder which is not technically an explosive).

Firearm licence holders satisfy the licensing requirements to allow the purchase under the Act....more than just a guide as the storage requirements cover all scales of storage and limit Firearm Lic holders storage too! I believe it is 20kg, which is 'only' 5 jugs.... for small scale storage, any more and there are more stringent requirements, maybe DG lic as well....

I would be more than pleased for you to telephone worksafe tomorrow and suggest that the Dangerous Good Laws dont apply to Firearm lic holder... please report back here too!!
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Re: If a bottle of reloading powder ignited?

Post by Pilch » 23 Mar 2014, 5:50 pm

Easy enough to double sided tape a few sheets of non-sparky stuff inside your ammo container in your safe I guess... Just to be sure...
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Re: If a bottle of reloading powder ignited?

Post by 1290 » 23 Mar 2014, 6:59 pm

5kg for Black powder, 20 for smokeless.....
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Re: If a bottle of reloading powder ignited?

Post by Apollo » 23 Mar 2014, 7:08 pm

You are lucky. 10kg for Smokeless in NSW.

It's a Workcover Law that is last time I knew under dispute.
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Re: If a bottle of reloading powder ignited?

Post by Herdsman » 24 Mar 2014, 8:43 am

Pilch wrote:Easy enough to double sided tape a few sheets of non-sparky stuff inside your ammo container in your safe I guess... Just to be sure...


Pick up a 1-2mm sheet of balsa wood from your local hobby shop.

That's do it.
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Re: If a bottle of reloading powder ignited?

Post by Oldbloke » 24 Mar 2014, 9:42 pm

That dangerous goods act generally applies to workplaces that have "manifest" quantities stored on site.

Smokeless powder is considered an explosive under the DG act and the Australian dangerous goods code.

Worksafe are not generally interested in private homes. However, I just had a quick look and the VIC explosive regulations state a dangerous goods license is required for premises that stores more than 20 kg of dg class of 1.3c or 1.1c. Class. Fyi smokeless powder is classed as 1.3c.

These quantities are usually set to exclude individuals such as sporting shooters with a low level of use. Mmm, perhaps there are a few here who should apply for a DG license?

It is then that the storage regulations would apply and then Work Safe may be interested in how you store propellants.
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Re: If a bottle of reloading powder ignited?

Post by Lorgar » 25 Mar 2014, 9:32 am

I reckon there would probably be a few guys that would have over the 20kg mark?

If you're loading for a few different calibres and have different powders... buy a few 4kg tubs to save yourself repeat trips to your local gun shop... I guess it happens...

Nothing to do but get out there and shoot :D

There are worse problems to have I guess ;)
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Re: If a bottle of reloading powder ignited?

Post by 1290 » 25 Mar 2014, 7:56 pm

Oldbloke wrote:That dangerous goods act generally applies to workplaces that have "manifest" quantities stored on site.

Smokeless powder is considered an explosive under the DG act and the Australian dangerous goods code.

Worksafe are not generally interested in private homes. However, I just had a quick look and the VIC explosive regulations state a dangerous goods license is required for premises that stores more than 20 kg of dg class of 1.3c or 1.1c. Class. Fyi smokeless powder is classed as 1.3c.

These quantities are usually set to exclude individuals such as sporting shooters with a low level of use. Mmm, perhaps there are a few here who should apply for a DG license?

It is then that the storage regulations would apply and then Work Safe may be interested in how you store propellants.


I'm looking forward to the response from worksafe when you ring up and tell them that the DG laws dont apply to us shooters... :lol:
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Re: If a bottle of reloading powder ignited?

Post by chookah » 26 Mar 2014, 10:48 am

Chronos wrote:Here's 50grams (770 grains) of powder burning. This is smokeless rifle powder, do not try with black powder or you may loose some eye lashes


Thanks heaps Chronos. Really appreciate you taking the time to video this.

And spending your precious powder :D
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Re: If a bottle of reloading powder ignited?

Post by SendIt » 26 Mar 2014, 10:49 am

$4 whole dollars of powder! :lol:

J/K :)
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Re: If a bottle of reloading powder ignited?

Post by Oldbloke » 26 Mar 2014, 7:58 pm

You should re-read my comments in the context and spirit in which they were written.
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Re: If a bottle of reloading powder ignited?

Post by chookah » 27 Mar 2014, 12:08 pm

SendIt wrote:$4 whole dollars of powder! :lol:

J/K :)


:lol:

Still, the effort's appreciated :)
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Re: If a bottle of reloading powder ignited?

Post by Oldbloke » 27 Mar 2014, 8:31 pm

As I said , "generally" worksafe are interested in large storages of dangerous goods, dealers etc. By my calc 20 kg = about 7700 reloads at 40 grains each. Not sure who would need that much powder at home. Safer to minimise your quantities. Staying under the 20kg limit would perhaps be easier than applying for and maintaining the lic.
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Re: If a bottle of reloading powder ignited?

Post by Chronos » 27 Mar 2014, 8:42 pm

chookah wrote:Still, the effort's appreciated :)


appreciate it mate, a lot of people have never seen powder burn and while it's not that scary it's important people know how intense it is and once it starts (took a while LOL) there's no putting it out

well worth "a whole $4 worth of powder" if it saves someone's house or even a life. A very well known and experienced shooter in the ACT lost his life a while back due to a fire in his reloading shed. this was a guy who had spent probably 60 years shooting and reloading and teaching others to shoot.

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Re: If a bottle of reloading powder ignited?

Post by eeckle » 28 Mar 2014, 6:17 am

Chronos wrote:A very well known and experienced shooter in the ACT lost his life a while back due to a fire in his reloading shed.


Wow really? :shock: :(

How long ago was this?
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Re: If a bottle of reloading powder ignited?

Post by Chronos » 28 Mar 2014, 6:48 am

eeckle wrote:
Chronos wrote:A very well known and experienced shooter in the ACT lost his life a while back due to a fire in his reloading shed.


Wow really? :shock: :(

How long ago was this?


His name was Jim McKinley, the benchrest range at Majura Pk is named after him. He passed away in 2012 or 2013.

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