Bullet seating issues

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Bullet seating issues

Post by Blr243 » 26 Sep 2020, 12:49 pm

New 22250 lapua cases ( I did. Not run. Them thru a die just primed. And charged them. ) then when trying to seat flat base 35 v max all I got was misalignment and crushed case. Mouths ... I am useing the cheap lee dies. Then I tried sizing them so. My. Expander ball could. Pass thru the. Neck and. Hopefully ease the tension. I also. Tried a 17 degree reamer On. Inside of. Necks to help start the projectiles better ...and I ended. Up trying. 40. Grain vmax boat tails. No improvement I gave up. Moats of. My reloading rifle has been 243 with. Boat tail v max. No problem. Also no problem with flat base bullets in 357 44. 4570 etc ....can I. Buy bigger expander. BALLS ?
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Re: Bullet seating issues

Post by TassieTiger » 26 Sep 2020, 1:07 pm

Personally - I’ve not found too many occasions when bigger balls aren’t the correct answer :thumbsup:
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Marlin SBL 45/70
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Re: Bullet seating issues

Post by bigrich » 26 Sep 2020, 2:16 pm

Blr243 wrote:New 22250 lapua cases ( I did. Not run. Them thru a die just primed. And charged them. ) then when trying to seat flat base 35 v max all I got was misalignment and crushed case. Mouths ... I am useing the cheap lee dies. Then I tried sizing them so. My. Expander ball could. Pass thru the. Neck and. Hopefully ease the tension. I also. Tried a 17 degree reamer On. Inside of. Necks to help start the projectiles better ...and I ended. Up trying. 40. Grain vmax boat tails. No improvement I gave up. Moats of. My reloading rifle has been 243 with. Boat tail v max. No problem. Also no problem with flat base bullets in 357 44. 4570 etc ....can I. Buy bigger expander. BALLS ?


somethings not right there , especially with lapua brass . i've used norma straight out the bag with no issues at all . very strange . bad batch of brass ? nah , not if your using the expander ball . assume nothing and check everything. get out the digital vernier calipers and check the projectiles and brass thickness maybe ? are you deburring the case mouth ?

hope you sort it :thumbsup:
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Re: Bullet seating issues

Post by AZZA'S HJ47 » 26 Sep 2020, 6:02 pm

I lpaded a set of 22-250 lapua cases up a while ago i did run them through a full length sizing die and then chamfered both inside and outside the neck with no issues. The dies are also lee
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Re: Bullet seating issues

Post by Cooper » 26 Sep 2020, 6:21 pm

The 35 Vmax is kind of a funny snub nose projectile and the flat base probably not helping. I can kinda see the how the bullet seating die might be trying seat the projectile a bit side way.

That should have improved with the 40gr Vmax and the boat tail should have improved the situation. The 40gr Vmax is still a pretty short projectile. Can you try a 55 gr boat tail projectile?

Sounds like a bullet seating die problem to me. Can you measure the inside diameter of the case Neck after sizing with verniers which should Close enough to giving some idea how much you are sizing the neck.
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Re: Bullet seating issues

Post by snag » 26 Sep 2020, 6:56 pm

That really sounds like a case prep issue rather than anything wrong with your dies. Lee dies are as good as any others in my experience ( I have them in 17 different calibres and haven't had a problem). If you're crushing case necks then something is wrong with either the case or the projectile. Doubtful that you have a problem with Hornady projectiles, so you'd be thinking the brass is tight in the neck? I have gotten into the habit of full length resizing all my new brass before I load it and it is amazing how much resistance you can get from even premium brass. Neck prep can be a real issue with all brass - chamfering the case mouth is really important.
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Re: Bullet seating issues

Post by Blr243 » 26 Sep 2020, 7:08 pm

Thanks for the input , I have chamfered the case mouths ...coopers comment about the seating die issue prompted me to look closer at that. I even did the “read the instructions “ thing ....earlier today I noticed the seating die adjustment dial on top was locked solid and I could not undo it by hand so I just left it as is and I adjusted seating depth by moving the entire die up and down. Then after reading the instructions I got some tools and undid the adjuster dial so it moves freely by hand. Then I realised that now it’s free floating and I would likely have better luck. I followed the instructions and then I instantly got better results. I feel a bit silly about my previous very basic approach to the seating procedure .....I think sometimes after loading for decades if an issue crops up we first blame equipment but it turned out tonight to be me ....I now have no crushing whatsoever but things are still a bit wonky looking Then I tried seating just a fraction, lowering the case so I could grip it with my fingers to rotate it slowly a fraction, then seating a touch deeper, then twisting it again a fraction, then seating some more. All in the interests of getting the bullet to sit neat and straight. Probably 4 or 5 actions instead of just a single action. It’s improving.
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Re: Bullet seating issues

Post by marksman » 26 Sep 2020, 10:57 pm

by adjusting the die up and down and not the adjuster you were not getting the projectile in the area that will have the smallest gap to seat
ie you had the seating happening in the shoulder body area if you get what l mean Blr

its very important to size your new cases before seating, it makes all your necks uniform in tension and irons out any dents ect, makes em round

moving the case can around as you seat is a good idea that has benefits but usually one 180 degree turn is enough after a half seat lMO

if l were you l would be pulling the seater apart and polishing the parts to work smoother as well as giving a light grease

here is the instructions for you but l think your already onto it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRkf4pgWnWw

its very important to chamfer like you are when using flat based bullets, a light VLD chamfer is best, and start em off slow
https://www.rebelgunworks.com.au/produc ... eamer-tool

you can graphite the inside necks to help with seating and release
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/201 ... ase-necks/

l hope l dont come across as condescending
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Re: Bullet seating issues

Post by Blr243 » 27 Sep 2020, 6:46 am

MM I was wondering where you were and was hoping you would join the topic and am glad you did ...I don’t even know what condescending means. You only sounded helpful. Thank you
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Re: Bullet seating issues

Post by straightshooter » 27 Sep 2020, 12:39 pm

First thing to do is pull out the seating stem from the seating die and see how well it tends to center the projectile when seating. If it tends not to center the projectile then there is part of your problem.
Another part of your problem is how carefully you present the projectile into the seating die in the first place.
But even if you solve your seating issues that is only the beginning.
35 grain in a 22-250 means 4200 fps and more.
Get ready for plenty of copper fouling and bullets disappearing on their way to the target although the ones that do make it to the target at modest ranges should be fairly spectacular.
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Re: Bullet seating issues

Post by Blr243 » 27 Sep 2020, 3:22 pm

Thanks for those couple of tips straightshooter , however the third paragraph just about rattled the part of my brain that prefers my life to be simple and care free.... if I can get a very flat trajectory and sub moa consistently, I’ll be prepared to clean out the copper and do whatever I have to do to keep it that way .......I managed to get a stack of factory hornady Fifty grain v max ammo at a dollar a pop ....that’s my back up plan if the light super fast pills become too problematic
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Re: Bullet seating issues

Post by Blr243 » 27 Sep 2020, 6:29 pm

SUCCESS. Now that I’m sizeing the new cases,Shallow angle chamfering the insides of the necks , paying attention to your ideas and recommendations, taking more care , and watching some YouTube, I’m now , in one pass of the seating die , getting nice neat straight ammunition that looks like it was made by somebody who knew what he was doing , and there’s no problems. It just feels right ....I need not be scared of flat base bullets anymore ( I have noticed they are often cheaper )
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Re: Bullet seating issues

Post by marksman » 27 Sep 2020, 6:53 pm

flat based bullets shoot more accurate out to 300 or so as well Blr

if its feeling right it will be good

well done Blr good to hear :thumbsup: :drinks:
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Re: Bullet seating issues

Post by SCJ429 » 28 Sep 2020, 6:22 pm

New cases will have heaps of neck tension, too much. I run them over a mandrel to relieve some of the tension and iron out the case mouth.

New cases are clean and very grabby, I use some graphite lube to help seat them.

You worked out the chamfering bit.

Be gentle seating the bullet, start them and then ease off the pressure and turn the case a little. Then seat a little more.

Lapua cases are expensive, treat them gently.
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Re: Bullet seating issues

Post by bigrich » 28 Sep 2020, 7:01 pm

i don't mean to detract from the OP's original problem , but i've come across a issue with neck sizing my 222 . my 222 has a 1-12 twist barrel , and has a preference for flat based projeciles. i've been using 55vmax , but in the interests of a flatter trajectory , i've been working up a load with nosler flat base 40gn varmageddon projectiles . initially i didn't have much luck until i deduced i was neck sizing to low and pushing the shoulder back which was affecting accuracy/ chanmbering due to varying neck tension and alignment . so i came back up so i was sizing just past where the bullet base stopped when seated, which was about 70% down the neck . now it shoots 40's extremely well with ar2207, 1.3" high at 100 for a 200 zero . bug holes at 100 and grouping .8" at 200 with a little wind around .great. i'll just do my super accurate 55vmax load and compare , and the 55's shot like crap ! WTF :wtf:
upon closer examination, the 55's seat down past the bottom of the neck and appear to be ballooning the un-necksized part of the neck just before the top of the shoulder . you can feel it through the bolt on chambering . so it would appear i have to use different sizing/prep work to use the 55's . neck sizing to just before the start of the shoulder seems to work in this case and just in case anyone is thinking it , boat tail 50's BT's don't work that well and flat base soft point 50;s are very average at times as well . the 55's 2.5" at 100 will give me a 200 zero and are very accurate

i hope sharing this may help someone with their loads . i've never really had any issues with seating flat based projectiles as i've always neck sized new brass at the very least and deburred the case mouth

i suppose if this reloading caper was easy it wouldn't be any fun :D
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Re: Bullet seating issues

Post by Blr243 » 28 Sep 2020, 8:03 pm

Never mind worrying about detracting from original issue......it’s all welcolm and very usefull info ....if I get upset about something like that somebody please shoot me.
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Re: Bullet seating issues

Post by marksman » 29 Sep 2020, 2:34 pm

just to show how much of the necks get sized in my 30-06 using wilson bushing dies is less than half
l've chosen this round of mine because its more obvious being a factory chamber with 5 thou neck clearance
you can also see the very slight mark left from using a lee factory crimp die because this round has jump to the lands

Image

this can be done with a FLS dies by putting an appropriate sized washer between the die and shell holder when setting the FLS die up, remove the washer to size the case, say 1mm thick washer for example but maybe more
the idea is that you will have a straighter to the bore sized case because the case and neck are still the same size as your chamber
but the sized part of the neck is enough to hold the bullet giving the right amount of neck tension
using the bushing dies you have no choice its how the case is sized, lMHO it is worth considering for precision shooting
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Re: Bullet seating issues

Post by Blr243 » 29 Sep 2020, 3:43 pm

Good centralising idea MM. I bought a collet neck sizeing die from lee. Something to fiddle with once I get some firefomed 22250 cases
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Re: Bullet seating issues

Post by bigrich » 29 Sep 2020, 4:29 pm

i might try that MM, i've always tried to get as much contact as possible for neck tension by resizing the neck as close as possible to the shoulder . i'll try less neck resizing with my 55vmax load and try a crimp :thumbsup:
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Re: Bullet seating issues

Post by marksman » 30 Sep 2020, 12:38 am

Blr243 wrote:Good centralising idea MM. I bought a collet neck sizeing die from lee. Something to fiddle with once I get some firefomed 22250 cases


for the guy who wants the best straightest consistent reloads he can make without going full blown out camel this is the go ;) IMHO
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